the update...

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:03 pm

disrespect? naw, tell it to me straight forward, i wasnt sure, that was jsut want i figured, like i said, jsut becuase warrior on my is 56 doesnt mean i know jack about my job

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:20 pm

'End Game' is not the end all and be all of FFXI, despite the word "End" in it. I love Dragoon. It is my love and obsession. But when this 'End Game' rolls around, I'm fairly sure I'll have to sell my soul to get into a LS that goes around thumping Gods over the head. Not to mention the begging needed to go on Dynamis...

So tell ya what, you should probably do what I do and look at the -positive- sides of our classes. You can still sub Nin, right? And that dual weild lets you carry 2 weapons? Which both give you crazy bonuses?...If they let me dual weild Grand Knight's Lance(Which has +7 acc), I would never speak ill of SE again.

So there's that...and Shadows. Everytime a shadow is hit, you loose a bit of hate. So, wait a sec, you get hit for 0 damage and the monster loses interest in you? Oh, my heart bleeds for thee.

Ok, so your damage/accuracy is now a varaible based on weapon and distance from the mob. So take an evening in Ronfaure, aquaint some bunnies with flying wooden death, and figure out your optimum range. Where is the problem in this? I'm still sure that a well equiped and skilled Rng will still beat a well equiped and skilled....just about anything.

Think of it this way. There is a variable you have to think of and you have added hate dissipation. If -only- other classes could dissapate hate.....well...drg can....but Drk can't....yeah....This isn't a flame, just my opinion. ^.^;

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:49 pm

hmm -_-; seems like you didnt even read the post begin til the end.
concern is not only the what youve posted ^^;

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:43 am

yes actually I did, i was only saying that you didnt disrespect me, and the fact that i guess i was wrong, besides if war was never meant to tank, well, lets not go there, ninja is nerfed we know, geez

i was jsut commenting that you did entirely prove me wrong is all, besides i can't tank anymore with this new utesumi crap even as ninja main, im nin31 and if i can't survive with this til 37 im going to change subjobs /sigh

also the abjuration for warrior, harness and plate is garbage. The wars ive talked to have avoided it in favor of a Byrnie until relic gear, and I'm inclined to beleive it. it seems its only armor for tanking we're not tanks, so that leaves us out, even though most warriors use it. And ranger needs JSE desperatly! im petitioning SE!

One question though this is JSE for ranger I'm not sure about, can an rng elaborate on its usefull ness?

Archer's Jupon
Level: 71
Slot: Body
Type: Doublet
Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: RNG
Races: All
Defense: 40
Auction House Category:
Armor / Body
Effects for Archer's Jupon:

* Strength +5
* Ranged Accuracy -10
* Ranged Attack +10

Trailer's Tunica
Level: 16
Slot: Body
Type: Tunica
Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: RNG
Races: All
Defense: 14
Auction House Category:
Armor / Body
Effects for Trailer's Tunica:

* Agility +1
* Resist vs. Ice +5
* Resist vs. Earth +5

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:57 am

I still say stop your winning....all you have talked about is "oh no amount of equipemnt will fix this" well have you tried doing what you are supost to do now....find that "sweet spot" come on thing for once and stop bitching, SE is doing what needs to be done to make the game its best as a WHOLE and that cant be done unless things are changed.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:03 am

heh, im not complaining, I know what gear can do and what they can't all i said was that i had a hate control problem once and thats when I said, "okay No more tanking ever" So i did, as for the abjuration, im told its useless to warrior, well that may be, but even if its not, I can do jsut fine without it, and if Nivez is reading this, im not going to get a haubby or scorpion harness, becuase that gear means crap, im taking my lorica and exping up

besides whose the authroity that demanded we use expensive stuff like that?

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:21 am

oh no not you Karou
was commenting on Eviticus
Im not here to be ill-manner ^^;

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:29 am

ah okay my mistake, I didnt mean to misread i'm sorry

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:48 am

yeah lol that was not tward you KarouKaniyashia :p

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:18 pm

=O KarouKaniyashia
Abj for warrior.. is best eq you can get -_-;
Armada Armor.... Relic is not that even great lol ^^;

ABj drops by Nidhogg
Cursed Hauberk(Adaman Hauberk)
Strength +10, Dexterity +10, Accuracy +15, Attack +15, Evasion -10

Cursed Hauberk -1(Armada Hauberk)
Strength +11, Dexterity +11, Accuracy +16, Attack +16, Evasion -11

while
AF2 Armor gives you
HP+10 Attack+10 Enmity+4 Enhances "Aggressor" effect
Dynamis - Xarcabard

i'm not sure who wouldnt want this baby ~.~
let me talk to that warrior please

and no..;
ranger need accuracy the most.. and they released the update with this armor.. i highly doubt its JSE

Thanatos02 · Post by **Thanatos02** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:08 pm

I'm pretty tired of hearing all the 'dedicated Ranger's complaining, and I hear it a lot. A bunch of players slumming on message boards saying "Oh noes!" and acting like it's the end of the world that for any given party, the optimum setup involves 4 Rangers.

Let's consider, shall we?

My favorite is the "We pay for dmg, so we should do the most, every time!" It's my favorite argument, because it almost works. But personally, I don't buy it. So you have to buy bullets and arrows - I don't care. Because crazy damage isn't an entitlement, it's just that having to buy equipment is a downside. Sure, I'll admit it, it's the bad part of being a job whose damage is essentially in the form of disposible items. It's part of being an archer.

Now, I respect the desire of a Ranger to be highly effective because he's using reasources constantly to be effective, just like I respect the Ninja. A Ranger is very damaging. But how much more effective then a Drk or a Mnk or a War should you be? You're faster, you do more damage, many Rng sub Ninja for Shadows and now you lose hate when one gets hit. Should you be better then a Blk every time?

Or maybe you're paying for speed? Hm. There's a thought. You do realize that a Rng never has to rest for MP, right? As long as you've got arrows, you don't have to rest, and that's a big deal if you like to keep the exp. rolling in. You're paying for efficiency too. You're trading time out of a party making money for time in a party making exp. Every tick a Blk spends resting is valueable party time. Same for a Drk, who spends time in a fight, while missing, for dmg - and who must rest for MP also if he's without juice (money, like arrows) or a Rdm (reasources - Mp, time).

I don't know if it's an even tradeoff, but I'd say damage closer to a traditional DD as opposed to a huge bump is better balanced because you're also more efficient with your time in a party.

I know it's also a lot of work to find the Ranger 'sweet spot'. I'm sorry it's a 20% reduction in dmg. at the optimum accuracy/dmg spot. That's life. If you want more damage, play farther away (at least you're out of the AoE spell!) and load up on accuracy. If you want to hit all the time, get close, compensate with more +dmg stuff. Make a choice, change your playing style, and stop being so lazy.

Also, wait, do your arrows do dmg based on mob level? Oh noes! Just like everyone else! This is possibly the most fair thing about the changes - the thing that I approve of most. This, more then anything, eliminates the "Trouble? Just throw more Rng at the problem!" thing and opens the game to other DD.

Now, what I'm not saying is that all rangers do nothing but complain. I'm also not saying that the people on the Mithra Pride boards are the worst offenders. What I am saying is that my heart most certainly does not bleed for these DD's. SE doesn't owe you anything more then they owe the rest of the players - to create a game that everyone gets to play and have fun with. And I think you'll find that most non-rangers think this is pretty keen - especially other DD's.

Maybe Drgs and the rest will have an easier time getting parties - probably not - rng still have incredible dmg and efficiency, but maybe it's more even.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:36 pm

Jae wrote:=O KarouKaniyashia
Abj for warrior.. is best eq you can get -_-;
Armada Armor.... Relic is not that even great lol ^^;

Not neccasarilly true. Most Warriors at that level have joined the /nin bandwagon. all that armor does is add stats for tanking. We already know warriors are not adequate tanks, and this update proves it aswell as showing ninja isnt one. and Believe me, Armor like this is only flashy for say war/mnk but even they dont tank too much.

Jae wrote:ABj drops by Nidhogg
Cursed Hauberk(Adaman Hauberk)
Strength +10, Dexterity +10, Accuracy +15, Attack +15, Evasion -10

Cursed Hauberk -1(Armada Hauberk)
Strength +11, Dexterity +11, Accuracy +16, Attack +16, Evasion -11

while
AF2 Armor gives you
HP+10 Attack+10 Enmity+4 Enhances "Aggressor" effect
Dynamis - Xarcabard

i'm not sure who wouldnt want this baby ~.~
let me talk to that warrior please

Kip : Honestly? They are flashy Tank wise, but to be honest Karou, its one of those items that in dynamis and "end game" levels doesnt really do much. Remember this, people are placing importance on equipment. But equipment is sh*t compared to skill. You can't have one or the other it seems, and if anyone, specifically non-warriors tells you how to do a job they dont play or have at your levels.... Ignore them. Play it the way you want to play it, and trust me, Aim for the abj, but you can hold out with Haub/relic gear. Wait til you start getting God drops. The Abj is really more built for plds anyways.

thats coming from a 75 warrior. and I'd rather follow his advice considering, i dont see any other 75 warriors on the pride

no offense Jae, you both are right, he agrees that ABJ is nice to have, ill save for it, but it really isnt neccassary, "end game" levels sh*t ish ard to hit even with the mostexpensive and +1ish gear. and why worry about an item that sucks the fun away?

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:30 am

nono im just saying warrior have wonderful equipments ^^
all jobs do. I just want to show you stuff that you may not know or you may know already.

i do agree you dont know all those fancy stuff to enjoy the game
like i said i wanted show you ^^; if i sounded like if i was bad ass or lecturing .. then i apologize.

this is my opinion for equipment... to be honest every job dont need much of skills. its just all about timing. what i mean by getting good.. not even good but decent equipment to do dmg or role that what you are suppose to do in party. As a party manner... or to save people time in party,mission,etc. well thats my opinion. dont take it too hard please. and those little +1 mods will add up eventually and it will make hugh different. Myself vs Someone who even have better equipment... makes 60~100dmg between rangers. And Adj is for all kinds of job.. as you can see there are 6(?) different abj sets -_-; not sure what he meant by only for pld. its for every job.

I'm not -_-; crying anymore infact I was never crying. I just wanted show my opinion to my first linkshell ~.~. Its just that in my opinion... Ranger want nerfed this much... not here to fight with people or job.

Added Note: I'm not sure how I posted... but those people who consider that i was crying or to compare with other job... then i'm not sure who was the really 1 crying... I happened to posted stuff to compare(did i even?) because people was just enjoying and flaming ranger only about the "damage". Not even single person except Karou say she is sorry about how ranger was nerfed. Hope we all see in positive way before flaming other people.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:23 am

We already know warriors are not adequate tanks

Alright, I'm sorry, maybe at the end of the game, they aren't, but I've heard about enough of this statement. Who else tanks for parties who can't find a PLD in those first 30 levels? What about the people who were at the very start of the game where no one had PLD open? A WAR with a shield works quite well for tank, perhaps not as well as a PLD (woot for uber-defense) but they work well enough. Also, I think perhaps the {Defender} job ability is there for a reason perhaps, ne?[/quote]

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:41 am

I didnt say anything other then war/nin as tanks

you said a war twh a shield. how many of those do you see? after 30? trust me w/o /mnk we arnt exactly that adequate of a tank. subjob affects it and you know that. THink about the japanese play when it started. think before Zilart. Before zilart there was no /nin for warriors. Warriors had /thf or /mnk and thats what was used as a tank. WHen zilart came out in japan that added /nin and the dual wield ability. war/NIN's are not good tanks. war/mnk is more viable imo. defender and the shield skills in af were done in japan before zilart came out with sam/nin/drg

and jae he meant it was really only for pld stat wise, becuase at that level there are many alternatives for the war/nin around that gear setup, iti s for everyone, he was commenting stat wise.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:10 pm

Ahh, okay, didn't realize you were referring to just the WAR/NIN's there, my apologies.

Oh, and just for the record, I carry a sword&shield combo with my WAR all the time in case I get stuck Tanking.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:50 pm

its okay, no harm done, slight confusion, but ya, the majority of wars are /nin so its kinda why stuff like the adaman and haubby's are more focused around a /mnk sub, but ya i keep a sword and GAxe on me at all times, mosto f the time when im not in a SC i swap out to GAxe to skill it up

Thanatos02 · Post by **Thanatos02** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:34 pm

It's different for War/xx tanks, because the setup is different, but I have heard that the sub-job for War is highly dependant on level. At low levels, I think most people expect a /Mnk sub, later a /Thf job, and at high levels, a /Nin job.

Of course, YMMV. Just a side note. =)

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:59 pm

the one war friend i have did the impossible so to speak, he went war/mnk the entire stretch, he wont touch /nin becuase he doesnt like that sub to begin with, personal preferance i guess