the update...

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:30 am

some updates are really nice and all... but
ranger has been gimped to extreme... its not a DD anymore cant even comparable to other jobs..
@75... was testing how they changed after update... i was missing on too weak con mobs.. and 10%less dmg than b4 the update.... 30% decrease dmg by distance(max to lowest)... and the accuracy is horrible..

i dont have to say anything... this i tell you.. it is so bad that lv65mnk WS can overpower lv75 rng sidewinder.
about the accuracy part.. (+60ish r.accu on me right now with +28agi) still missing a lot of times on too weak monsters.

cant believe it? ask your local rangers or ranger we have in MP.. i hope they realize how they been gimped

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:22 pm

Did you just relize that Ranger was going to be crippled like that?

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:13 pm

I saw it coming way back when DRG's penta thrust was fixed.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:35 pm

I want to say I'm sorry for the rangers...

...

But I'm not

In all my time of playing Final Fantasy, Rangers dominated damage dealing. People who took the time to enjoy the other damage dealing jobs were relegated to long waits for parties... hour after hour... in the vague hope that maybe there won't be enough rangers their level looking for a group long enough that they might get an invite.

This change was a long time in coming, and I only wished it would have happened sooner.

As it is, Rangers have enjoyed the spotlight long enough. Now they must be content to be equal to the other damage dealers.

Naru Fugihara · Post by **Naru Fugihara** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:40 pm

Since I've been working as a WHM I havn't had to worry about competeing with ppl to get a pt cause everyone is always looking for a WHM or 2 to have in a pt.

Though when I get my advanced jobs that'll change a little.

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:06 pm

I hate to say this but there are two kinds of RNGs now:

(1) The kind that spend their time out in the field, testing their weapons, distances, equipment, setups, weapon skills, subjobs, on various, situations, mobs, and party setups. They are adapting, overcoming, and keeping their job keen. They realize that SE with not make a job unplayable and will continue to earn the respect and fame for what they are, Rangers.

(2) The kind that spend their time complaining, whining, moping, crying, and b!tching about the update (mostly based on what other people said) on open forums, chat rooms, linkshells, etc etc etc ... when the work gets tough and its time roll up their sleeves, they are nowhere to be found.

The same fire that tempers steel burns off the impurities.

It's not hard to see which type of player will find PT invites and other DD openings.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:24 pm

I think the same could be said of dragoons when they lost their "super power" as well.

The ones that stuck with it found they could solo monsters few others could even attempt to with the proper use of the white mage subjob, for example. Or that they work great with thieves in parties because they can manage hate so well.

I think it's silly to just give up on rangers entirely, though that's the stigma dragoons have faced even today.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:10 pm

yeah when htey "gimped" DRG I was oen of the few that said nothing, and just kept going on ding our DRG thing, and yeah you can still do great damage with RNG, you just have to find the "sweet stop" to shoot form for each weapon

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:22 pm

Hmmmm.... a 30something RNG I know saw little change. Any reports from other RNG?

Makes a mental note to go out and level Archery to check it out.

Rangers did NOT get gimped. The rules for Ranged weapons changed for EVERYONE. Even us Red Mages.

Accuracy and damage now are distance related. Sounds like realsim to me.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:50 pm

Tsybil wrote:Hmmmm.... a 30something RNG I know saw little change. Any reports from other RNG?

Makes a mental note to go out and level Archery to check it out.

Rangers did NOT get gimped. The rules for Ranged weapons changed for EVERYONE. Even us Red Mages.

Accuracy and damage now are distance related. Sounds like realsim to me.

The other change is that rangers (or more accurately, ranged attacks)now do reduced damage against mobs the higher their level above the attacker.

This is part of the reason rangers enjoyed such dominance. All other damage dealers had to rely (primarily) on melee or magic attacks that suffered the more incredibly tough the monster was.

Level 75 rangers could do as much damage against the level 90 Kirin as they would against a decent challenge monster (as long as they could make the shot, anyway). No one else had that kind of advantage.

Neoshinobi · Post by **Neoshinobi** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:02 pm

The way I saw it, {ranger}s did {Dark knight} damage (slower than a {crossbow} yet more damage per hit) ...only with a {bow} and {Monk} type damage with a {crossbow} (faster than a {bow} yet less damage per hit)

What I'm getting at is {ranger}s were the {Black mage} of melee...now their just another melee and {Black mage}s still do more damage.
Ok what I'm getting at here is I hate the update, why don't they just go and gimp {Black mage} while their at it?

Rinaah · Post by **Rinaah** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:02 pm

Heh.. sorry to say this but I don't have much sympathy. There are some great Rng out there, but there are also cocky ones and I am glad to see them knocked off their pedistal.
The reduced dmg for level difference is an obvious fix and in many ways the distance factor is an obvious fix. I always thought it was very silly for a range damage dealer fighting at point blank. Never should ranged weapons be used as a melee.. otherwise they should play melee if they want to be that close. I play a Blm, and I would get yelled at like nothing else if I was casting right in front of the mob.
Us mages need some company on the back lines.

Rng should be with all the other range fighters.

Aeyliea · Post by **Aeyliea** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:10 pm

They will not 'gimp' Black Mage for simple reasons:

While RNG can relentlessly dump piules and piles and piles and piles pf damage on monsters, occasionally missing, they /used/ to outdamage a BLM by so much that they were taking OUR place in parties.

A Black Mage is limited by the amount of MP he or she has, by their Elemental Magic Skill, by their Magic Attack Bonuses, and their intelligence. If a Black Mage has only, for instance, 750 MP to work with - thats all they get. Sure, arrows cost money, BUT, once a BLM (Or WHM, or RDM, or SMN for that matter) has spent all of their MP, we are done. We have to drop down and rest to be able to do anything else. Yeah, we can pop up and fire off another spell occasionally while we rest, but we have a finite amount of damage we can deal.

The difference between the mage damage dealers and melee damage dealers is simple - the Melee are /not/ limited by anything other than the WHM's MP that keeps them alive. Mage DD are limited by their MP - once its gone, its gone.

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:52 pm

Crispleaf wrote:The other change is that rangers (or more accurately, ranged attacks)now do reduced damage against mobs the higher their level above the attacker.

No morrre soloing IT worms with Silence and my bow???

Hmmm... My Hume THF was getting 72 - 76 damage / hit on Qufim Worms with a Platoon Gun at 22... I could check this out before tomorow....

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:34 am

you wouldnt happen to lvl ranger or took it to high lvl yet. -_-; you guys talking about based on what update had to say.

as a ranger who been playing for long time.. and paying our damage. It is not PLAYABLE anymore. As in solo or as in exp party. I do not mind they gimped our dmg/acurracy determines by distance. I really do not mind. But the way they fixed ranger... its NOT playable. Like I said... how could a ranger75 can be overpowered by lv65 taru monk? if its not enough said... how could ranger with high range accuracy item... they still miss on too weak monster constantly??? why did they even give ranger melee weapons when they knew that we not gonna do melee attacks?????

please its not about how it was suppose to be by what update had to say... you wouldnt happen to say all these if you were ranger and see the difference it makes.

some say low lvl ranger dmg + accuracy didnt change much... hell its by percentage. The more dmg you do the more your attack will get reduced. Even the accuracy.

1. Regular shot reduced 10% even if you are in this "Sweetspot"
2. Accuracy been nerfed to extreme.
3. Distance DMG Max to Lowest difference is by 30%
4. Even though we do our dmg.. I really dont know how can party setup will be. Mobs gonna flying around all the place.
5. All these effects included in WS as well

About DRG... they been nerfed because TP was determined by weapon delay back then... hell i even saw BLM does WS constantly with his staff attacks. This is what i heard from other players and based on what I saw on videos back then before i started ffxi. -_-; why not everyone equip high delay weapon and form party... blm does WS its own + MB?

the NM i usually camp.. which i have to kill place holder in order for me to spawn NM.. i never was happen to REST(its too week monster too). Now every place holder i kill.. HP goes down to half and i have to rest... Im not sure how much I have to say that is is not RANGER anymore. When we cant even solo.. when Monster gets close to us... when Shadowbind is 5min delay.

Rinaah · Post by **Rinaah** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:08 pm

Of course rangers that have played for a while will notice the changes the most. I will give it a while before I make any concrete conclusions. All the data and feedback I have heard so far is that damage has been reduced to a point that is comperable to everyone else. It just takes a little getting used to.
God forbid if you have to rest after a solo fight with anything over EP..

Rng limits are not uber anymore, they have just been reduced to good DD like everyone else. There lies the challenge.. Rng isn't an advanced job for the heck of it. If I were a Rng, I would meet this challenge with blood stained claws.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:44 pm

this is all I have to say....and I am sorry if I sound harsh, a bitch or rude......

GET OVER IT YOU CRY BABIES!!!!!!

SE has not "gimped" anything yet all the changes they are makeing are ajustments to make the jobs all fare for each other, they changed Penta Thrust ebcause of the over powering TP WS stuff, they changed NIN because NIN was not designed to be a tank in the first place, and thent hey changed Ranged weapons because they egnored the mobs level unlike melee.....so I see nothing wrong, just because you cant dish out the 7331 9999 damage you could before does not mean that you are not playable, also there are alternative arrors/bolts taht are not as expensive compared to the ones I have seeen people use. and on that note BLM is fine, because of its limited MP, it does not need to be ajusted. Every time SE does a major update all I hear is whining and bitching and I am getting sick of it, they are changeing the little things to make the world better as a whole.

and again I am sorry if I sounded harsh, a bitch or rude......

Post by **Leane** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:25 pm

Kailea wrote:this is all I have to say....and I am sorry if I sound harsh, a bitch or rude......

GET OVER IT YOU CRY BABIES!!!!!!

SE has not "gimped" anything yet all the changes they are makeing are ajustments to make the jobs all fare for each other, they changed Penta Thrust ebcause of the over powering TP WS stuff, they changed NIN because NIN was not designed to be a tank in the first place, and thent hey changed Ranged weapons because they egnored the mobs level unlike melee.....so I see nothing wrong, just because you cant dish out the 7331 9999 damage you could before does not mean that you are not playable, also there are alternative arrors/bolts taht are not as expensive compared to the ones I have seeen people use. and on that note BLM is fine, because of its limited MP, it does not need to be ajusted. Every time SE does a major update all I hear is whining and bitching and I am getting sick of it, they are changeing the little things to make the world better as a whole.

and again I am sorry if I sounded harsh, a bitch or rude......

I agree.

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:20 pm

I just read a great post by friend Komidol on Alla. At first he was really upset over this but has had a change of heart and has been doing some great research on rangers' new world. Check it out!

Here are some highlights:

now RNG is fun to play ... and we have the most fun out of the whole game. Weaknesses are fun, compensating makes you think. When they work, you feel rewarded, that's why it feels good to play.

And for the love of god, RNGs are still good, don't nerf our good DD status because of a few complainers and bad players.

Now it depends on the players, not the job.

110% Damage of pre-update Damage ... Yes you read that right. It does MORE Damage

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:05 pm

no matter how hard try -_-; its not 110% rather its generally 20% dmg reduce + gimped accuracy. you guys say its how it suppose to be.. are you saying we have right to miss this much and everytime we solo our stuff we just get on with it and do 40%less dmg of what you call from "sweetspot"?? since we cannot even bind them.. are we suppose to sub blackmage now? to do "realistic dmg"?... are you telling me after 1 arrow/bolt shot we have to kill them with knife?

DMG, Accuracy is 1 thing.. update has too much errors SE only changed depends on only the DMG & Accuracy.. didnt even thought about all other things. If our job was like this... let other job shine***** then give us free arrows/bolts since we dont do anything more "special" like you guys said. whats the point of buying stuff to do dmg now?
if you were to tell me -_-; we choose ranger... when we know we spend money to do dmg... hell ~.~ why did i even bother lvling ranger if it was like this when i started FFXI? i rather be warrior or monk to do *shine* dmg.

I'm not here to bitchy about the update ^^; its just that SE made too much errors on Ranger nerfing. Like i said I can live with it... and I have no desire to lvl any other job now since i put too much efforts in it. Its just quiet unfair for us.. with all these many reasons. -_-; all those ranger hater in MP... realize this is not only about the dishing out DMG... its about thinking of other ranger stuff -_-;

Rinaah · Post by **Rinaah** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:36 pm

One thing I have not heard anybody talk about concerning Rng change is the change in job focus and in such, need to rethink the equipment that will help them the most. There is obviously a stat change, so any changes SE made would be exaggerated if you kept the same equipment, right?

Anyways... this is all I will say about Rng because I am not one. Rangers are still awesome, and I enjoy pting with them. No loss in the love from me.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:58 pm

There are a few, and noble, rangers who've seen this change not as a cause for woe and despair, but as a chance to rediscover their jobs.

Simply put, I admire that attitude. Those rangers eagerly talk about experimenting with finding the "sweet spot," using the radar to judge the distance, trying different sub jobs to find if anything is more useful. They are trying on different equipment, and learning about what works for them.

People like this make me smile

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:12 pm

like i said.. too many problems.
new subjob, new equipment will not help ranger.

even if we equip firestaff OR axes... there are not much of option since those dont give range accuracy.. you must know that accuracy already been nerfed. different subjob will not work.. in many different view.. -_-; its so obvious. Reasons are you cannot dual equip unless ninja... and you need dual wield for more accuracy... but then again will do nerfed dmg since we cannot bind them.. what about blackmage?.. this cannot do -_-; simply because ranger is melee job.. no element,enfeeble will be support from ranger job to help ranger(meaning it will get resisted). oh wait.. there is 2 axe which are francisca(drops from nm).. Kriegbeil(KS99... almost to 20mil in phoenix) ^^b....

like i said ^^; too many errors.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:32 pm

Jae wrote:like i said.. too many problems.
new subjob, new equipment will not help ranger.

even if we equip firestaff OR axes... there are not much of option since those dont give range accuracy.. you must know that accuracy already been nerfed. different subjob will not work.. in many different view.. -_-; its so obvious. Reasons are you cannot dual equip unless ninja... and you need dual wield for more accuracy... but then again will do nerfed dmg since we cannot bind them.. what about blackmage?.. this cannot do -_-; simply because ranger is melee job.. no element,enfeeble will be support from ranger job to help ranger(meaning it will get resisted). oh wait.. there is 2 axe which are francisca(drops from nm).. Kriegbeil(KS99... almost to 20mil in phoenix) ^^b....

like i said ^^; too many errors.

you do have a point, I was talking to my boss today whose a 72 (he exped up during work hours) and was horrified at what was done to ranger, I told him a few things along these lines and he was pretty much the same as you. The only VIABLE job that should even tough ninja sub is Ranger.... okay now before someone asks sme why a war/nin says i shouldnt have it, we dont DD very good, hell we do greater damage at endgame almost, but back on focus, Rangers do more damage throughout their entire job lvls then any other melee job. now they need /nin for dual wield and ranged acc as you said Jae, but they are nerfed in that MOST and im not talking about the good rangers who arnt affected, becuase its again come down to player skills not the changes, most will not know how to cope with the changes to ranger's sub becuase they dont think about other possibilities. now im not insulting any ranger here, becuase we all have a learning point and i know you all will learn it fast. but the changes /nin have nerfed a huge deal of jobs.

I can't tank when we can't find a paladin anymore...... i keep losing hate faster then ive done. Ranger's cant be doing the mass damage they once did. Ninja cannot tank, well nin was never a tank to start with we just found a way for them to do it.

Basically reguardless of what the update has done to Ninja main or sub, its not going to make that big of a difference with equipment. thats a small part. a ranger has to know how to adapt with the change and still cause mass damage, and I know its possible becuase I saw my boss do it at a long range distance and still create havoc, thats just my 2 cents, dont hold me to it, i only briefly talked to my boss and i dont really know crap about ninja ranger or warrior so heh

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:58 pm

KarouKaniyashia no disrespect.. i mean -_-; not even disrespect.. Warrior does almost same dmg as my sidewinder(b4 the patch) if they have correct equipment -_-; you would be surprised... and in end game... great axe comes into play.. whats the WS you need to get from quest... that ws does 1k easily to god...

now ppl do not know what they are talking when they havent been to these stage yet... to talk about they did good stuff on nerfing to ranger.... I'm not pointing finger or disrespecting anyone here but.. please dont comment on how ranger was overpowered. even monk does 1k dmg with... 1 of job ability(not WS) please.. take it out from comments about ranger...

Warrior was never meant to tank. they are DD. if you are to tank in exp.. then obviously -_-; its gonna be like what you said. not flaming anyone here ^^; just want you guys to know how it is... every job is great.. you guys just dont see it.. in end game event.. we rangers dont even get something that will boost up range accu or attack when other jobs have many of them. go to ffxi.somepage.com and check the abjuration(sp?) for yourself.

like i said it is nearly impossible for us to adapt this new way for ranger...
like i said in example.. we wont be able to solo... heck how are we suppose to? monster is right front of you.. you do low dmg... and we have highest delay weapon in game... we will need 3rd program to time our utsusemi casts -_-.

and about ninja -_-; ninja is been nerfed.. not the people that uses nin sub. but its really not that noticiable. all you have to do is cast more enfeebling or THF is needed... obvious... when nin was tanking -_-; thf should be in party.

from all these.. people still tell me rangers are suppose to do range attack... yes i do agree.. but why monster come close to attack us? why cant ranger shoot them in the leg and give us chance to shoot them from distance?

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:03 pm

disrespect? naw, tell it to me straight forward, i wasnt sure, that was jsut want i figured, like i said, jsut becuase warrior on my is 56 doesnt mean i know jack about my job

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:20 pm

'End Game' is not the end all and be all of FFXI, despite the word "End" in it. I love Dragoon. It is my love and obsession. But when this 'End Game' rolls around, I'm fairly sure I'll have to sell my soul to get into a LS that goes around thumping Gods over the head. Not to mention the begging needed to go on Dynamis...

So tell ya what, you should probably do what I do and look at the -positive- sides of our classes. You can still sub Nin, right? And that dual weild lets you carry 2 weapons? Which both give you crazy bonuses?...If they let me dual weild Grand Knight's Lance(Which has +7 acc), I would never speak ill of SE again.

So there's that...and Shadows. Everytime a shadow is hit, you loose a bit of hate. So, wait a sec, you get hit for 0 damage and the monster loses interest in you? Oh, my heart bleeds for thee.

Ok, so your damage/accuracy is now a varaible based on weapon and distance from the mob. So take an evening in Ronfaure, aquaint some bunnies with flying wooden death, and figure out your optimum range. Where is the problem in this? I'm still sure that a well equiped and skilled Rng will still beat a well equiped and skilled....just about anything.

Think of it this way. There is a variable you have to think of and you have added hate dissipation. If -only- other classes could dissapate hate.....well...drg can....but Drk can't....yeah....This isn't a flame, just my opinion. ^.^;

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:49 pm

hmm -_-; seems like you didnt even read the post begin til the end.
concern is not only the what youve posted ^^;

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:43 am

yes actually I did, i was only saying that you didnt disrespect me, and the fact that i guess i was wrong, besides if war was never meant to tank, well, lets not go there, ninja is nerfed we know, geez

i was jsut commenting that you did entirely prove me wrong is all, besides i can't tank anymore with this new utesumi crap even as ninja main, im nin31 and if i can't survive with this til 37 im going to change subjobs /sigh

also the abjuration for warrior, harness and plate is garbage. The wars ive talked to have avoided it in favor of a Byrnie until relic gear, and I'm inclined to beleive it. it seems its only armor for tanking we're not tanks, so that leaves us out, even though most warriors use it. And ranger needs JSE desperatly! im petitioning SE!

One question though this is JSE for ranger I'm not sure about, can an rng elaborate on its usefull ness?

Archer's Jupon
Level: 71
Slot: Body
Type: Doublet
Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: RNG
Races: All
Defense: 40
Auction House Category:
Armor / Body
Effects for Archer's Jupon:

* Strength +5
* Ranged Accuracy -10
* Ranged Attack +10

Trailer's Tunica
Level: 16
Slot: Body
Type: Tunica
Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: RNG
Races: All
Defense: 14
Auction House Category:
Armor / Body
Effects for Trailer's Tunica:

* Agility +1
* Resist vs. Ice +5
* Resist vs. Earth +5

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:57 am

I still say stop your winning....all you have talked about is "oh no amount of equipemnt will fix this" well have you tried doing what you are supost to do now....find that "sweet spot" come on thing for once and stop bitching, SE is doing what needs to be done to make the game its best as a WHOLE and that cant be done unless things are changed.