Its offical.

Post by **Fiye** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 am

SAM>THF

That is all

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:04 am

He'll be tried and quite probably found guilty for man slaughter and goto jail for it...

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:28 pm

While we have many odd laws in the US, we are still allowed the self defense defense.

In almost all states, a private citizen can quite safely kill someone committing a felony even in circumstances where a law officer couldn't.

And then there is Texas where a private citizen can kill anyone that happens to have one foot on his property. Property you rent counts in this.

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:05 am

What about the burglar who fell through a skylite and onto a knife and sued the house owner and won?

The question is why he had a sharpened samurai sword? Is there not a law about the legal length of knives or blades or is that just over here?

Guess it all depends on how good the prosecuting lawyer is.

Post by **Shirai** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:27 am

Even with the USA arms laws I find it surprising to see a college student having a real katana at his disposal.
It may be the student does some form of kendo, but the bulletin doesn't say.
Some blogs regarding this however do hold the same theories.

I'm saying this because a real katana that is sharp enough to cut through a ribcage and sever limbs in one stroke isn't cheap, and usually isn't kept as ornament unless you are rich.
A cheap model katana capable of doing the above starts around $2k and even then you need some skill in using it to be able to inflict the damage done to the burgular.

The guy that killed the burgular will most likely be tried it in a court, but the outcome will probably also be self-defense, which in my opinion would be a just outcome.

Officially the law over here sais you need to cower and hide in a corner and call the police when a burgular enters your property.
Oh yes, we are allowed to approach them and 'ask them to go away or if they would be so kind to voluntarilly wait until the police arrives at the scene.' 'Would you like a cup of tea to go with my Playstation 3 and stack of games mister thief, oh and the police is on the way would you be so kind and stick around to explain to them what you are doing in my house?'
Yeah right!

In the situation where I find a burgular in my home, even though I would definitally go to jail for it, I'd do the same as the guy above.
And there are more then a few that think like me regarding this.
Oh yes I do own a few replica katanas myself, they can't really cut anything but they are sharp and strong enough to stab someone with and break at least a few bones.
That and they're the closest thing to a weapon within the reach of my bed and the rest of my house, and I will use them in a situation like this accepting full responsibillities for my actions.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:53 pm

There is no limit to self defense. If you trespass on my property and pose a threat, I can beat you to death and never go to jail for it. I as an American have the right to defend my home and my belongings. As does the 4 students. They will be tried, most likely aquitted and the burgler who lost his hand will remember that crime never pays.

No Anti-Sword/Knife Laws Sugami. Although congress has tried to pass them, it has not gotten enough support. We're trying to take guns away from home owners so taking knives away is throwing the american populus to the wolves, so to speak. I have 3 leaping wolf katanas in my house. All made in Japan, 20x Folded steel, Katana, Wakazashi, and a Tanto. All sharpened and if I need to use them, I will.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:10 pm

Sugami wrote:What about the burglar who fell through a skylite and onto a knife and sued the house owner and won?

The question is why he had a sharpened samurai sword? Is there not a law about the legal length of knives or blades or is that just over here?

Guess it all depends on how good the prosecuting lawyer is.

Don't know about that skylight one, not the weirdest I have heard though.

There are limits in most jurisdictions for blade length on carried weapons, mostly they name knives leaving swords in limbo. Wall hangers and costume items no limit. Come to any Sci-Fi con or SCA event in the states, yards and yards of cutlery for sale. I own a French Artillery Gladius from ~ 1880, a bit over 1/2 M in blade length.

There are many replica Samurai swords out there for well under $100, modern steel, won't cut like the real ones, but as well as any knife in my kitchen, and I keep those sharp.

Bud K catalog, check it out.

It won't get to court. Unless the burglar sues that is....

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:27 pm

Tsybil wrote:
Sugami wrote:What about the burglar who fell through a skylite and onto a knife and sued the house owner and won?

The question is why he had a sharpened samurai sword? Is there not a law about the legal length of knives or blades or is that just over here?

Guess it all depends on how good the prosecuting lawyer is.
Don't know about that skylight one, not the weirdest I have heard though.

There are limits in most jurisdictions for blade length on carried weapons, mostly they name knives leaving swords in limbo. Wall hangers and costume items no limit. Come to any Sci-Fi con or SCA event in the states, yards and yards of cutlery for sale. I own a French Artillery Gladius from ~ 1880, a bit over 1/2 M in blade length.

There are many replica Samurai swords out there for well under $100, modern steel, won't cut like the real ones, but as well as any knife in my kitchen, and I keep those sharp.

Bud K catalog, check it out.

It won't get to court. Unless the burglar sues that is....

I have a professionally made set: 1500. It was a Christmas Gift. I don't buy cheap swords in general heh.

Post by **Shirai** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:35 pm

KarouKaniyashia wrote:There is no limit to self defense. If you trespass on my property and pose a threat, I can beat you to death and never go to jail for it. I as an American have the right to defend my home and my belongings. As does the 4 students. They will be tried, most likely aquitted and the burgler who lost his hand will remember that crime never pays.

The burgler lost a little more then just his hand and won't be remembering anything.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:48 pm

Shirai wrote:
KarouKaniyashia wrote:There is no limit to self defense. If you trespass on my property and pose a threat, I can beat you to death and never go to jail for it. I as an American have the right to defend my home and my belongings. As does the 4 students. They will be tried, most likely aquitted and the burgler who lost his hand will remember that crime never pays.
The burgler lost a little more then just his hand and won't be remembering anything.

Ya I was in the middle of work and overlooked the "he died." bit. But ya you get the point

Post by **Sugami** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:14 pm

Tsybil wrote:It won't get to court. Unless the burglar sues that is....

Well the burglar obvious can't sue but that's not saying his family won't. Anyways concerning death wouldn't he be up against the "state" or whatever?

Over here there's a legal limit to the size of a knife's blade (unless it's used for the kitchen or whatever I guess) and you can certainly argue that a sword is a big knife.

I also heard you're only allowed to show the same amount of force that's being aimed at you so stabbing someone without a knife is a big no-no, not sure if that's true or not though

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:53 pm

Sugami wrote:
Tsybil wrote:It won't get to court. Unless the burglar sues that is....
Well the burglar obvious can't sue but that's not saying his family won't. Anyways concerning death wouldn't he be up against the "state" or whatever?

Over here there's a legal limit to the size of a knife's blade (unless it's used for the kitchen or whatever I guess) and you can certainly argue that a sword is a big knife.

I also heard you're only allowed to show the same amount of force that's being aimed at you so stabbing someone without a knife is a big no-no, not sure if that's true or not though

Oh you originally and legally are restricted by force of self defense.... Then Texas Came Along. Then 9/11 Happened. And that law gets overlooked. Yes the burgler's family can sue but they'd be up against the state. The fact remains that a student defended his home. A Man tried to ilegally rob him and confronted him. Since the burgler charged the kid with the sword, that even in IL, is considered a threat, and attempted assault and battery, and what not. And overall, I don't feel sorry for the dead robber. Why the hell would you charge a person holding a katana ffs!?

Any judge would state, that the robber was still in violation of a felony. The thing is, if a robber shoots you, and the law says "You may not shoot back." then you're going die, and will be unable to defend your home. September 11 changed how the self defense laws are looked at. We began to realize that it won't stop with terrorists. What about american criminals? Where does the line draw? Violent criminals do not care what the law is, and restricting home owners on defending themselves is wrong.

Overall, think about this, that robber died. One less criminal we have to support in prison with our tax dollars. People from IL will understand what I mean, we're the prison capital of the country.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:42 pm

Many years ago some teens tried to attack a guy, Bernard Goetz (sp?), on the New York subway. He pulled out a HIGHLY illegal handgun gun and shot them, killing at least one.

New York has some of the most restrictive gun laws in this country.

Bernie was charged with gun law violations and some form of homicide or manslaughter. When the trial was over, the statement that hit the press was "This is an example of the legal use of an illegal gun". The gun charges were dropped.

Late 70s I think. It was a 6 month sensation.

Post by **Sugami** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:39 am

Gun chargers were dropped? Heh, yeah let him off on self defense but he still broke the law by owning an illegal weapon, should have been reprimanded for that or whatever

Think it was over here, a farmer shot and killed someone who robbed or tried to rob him. The problem was he shot him in the back, ergo the robber was running away. Think he got sent to jail for that one, probably for man-slaughter.

Post by **Shirai** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:03 am

Sugami wrote:Think it was over here, a farmer shot and killed someone who robbed or tried to rob him. The problem was he shot him in the back, ergo the robber was running away. Think he got sent to jail for that one, probably for man-slaughter.

I think when they find out over there (except for maybe a few states like Texas) they'll be charged and tried the same way.
Even the American law has loopholes saying you are not allowed to shoot people in the back.
But if I'm not mistaken even in Texas you'll have to warn the tresspasser first.
Although they usually shoot the tresspasser first and then fire a warning shot.
Hey, witnesses say 2 shots were fired and there's only one bullet in the corpse!

By the way European law also pretty much sais that you may kill in self-defense as long as the perpetrator is consious, facing you and is holding a weapon.
But yea, we would get charged with the illegal posession of firearms.

Post by **Raika Akaizer** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:56 am

The law on blade varies between states but may not pass federal law.

In my state, you can have a genuine sword in your home, as it is private property. To carry it in public however, you must have a permit to carry a blade longer than 3" and may not be an automatic knife.

Police and Military are exceptions. They may have auto knives and warfighters can buy tomahawks and large blades, (such as a 12" SEAL) for warfighting purposes. You won't find police with large blades, but definately auto, with the exception of S.W.A.T.

Though there has been some silly judgements concerning robberies and such, there are usually common sense conditions that warrant lethal force. If the robber is armed, shoot. If the robber is in the dark and you cannot determine if he is a threat, shoot.

Most importantly, if a friend or family member is being taken, TAKE THE SHOT. 95% chance you will never see that person or your loved one again.

If the robber has your stuff and is unarmed or leaving, don't shoot, unless you're in Texas. *Fun Fact* If you live in Texas and your neighbor is being robbed..... shoot em dead. Guy was let off last time that happened.

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:43 am

Oooooo.... Necrobump!!!

Las Cruces..... I know people from there. If the Dragon Ranch means nothing to you we have no people in common.

Common sense... not at all common. More so in some places than others, but never common.

Texas...

the laws in Texas are some of the WORST in the USA. Any part of the legal spectrum at all. Or best if you are a filthy rich right wing misogynist homophobe. AZ currently beats them on racism.

A Texas congressman APOLOGIZED TO BP about the way this country treated them after the blowout. Give you 7 to 12 he gets reelected.

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:45 am

Tsybil wrote:A Texas congressman APOLOGIZED TO BP about the way this country treated them after the blowout. Give you 7 to 12 he gets reelected.

He should be apologizing to the British public instead. I think it's a typically stupid American thing to do blaming the British for what happened with BP just because "British" is in the name (looking at you President Obama!)

Maybe we should blame the Americans if an American Airways plane crashes or some dumb poop like that.

I bet there was a fair amount of Americans working at that BP place where the disaster happened.

</rant>

Post by **Raika Akaizer** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:59 pm

Sugami, you will find that most of us find our politicians stupid morons that don't really know anything other than keeping their own jobs. Really the accident was BP's fault, not the british people. Theres no denying that. To blame a country for a corperations actions is foolish. I think I'm more pissed off at the Scottland politicians right now though and I'm sure you know why.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:53 pm

Sugami we aren't blaming the British people for this one. Indeed, American politicians have used the British pensioners as a reason why we have to go soft on BP. It will probably not surprise you to know that these are the same politicians who hate our Social Security and Medicare programs.

Tirial, it seems BP had a finger in THAT pie too.

Post by **Raika Akaizer** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Well, that all depends on what the investigation brings up. If BP really did do that sh*t....... man that corp is going to be in a whole UN world of hurt. Hell I'm suprised we haven't sent and agent from either country to go assassinate that guy.

I'd be a bellhop with a silencer. >.> Or a chef with a touch of radiation. XD

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:56 am

I remember hearing something about Scottish MPs but can't remember what it was, to be frank I couldn't care less about Scotland