After watching this I sold my PS2, 360, and Wii to get a PS3

[Tivia]

DS outsells PSP

3.2mil to 1.7mil units but only in Japan but both Sony and Nintendo are Japanese companies so it's a good indicator.
Not sure when that survey was taken.

As I said I figured as much on this, Price alone would make this difference.

The PSP's game lineup is a source of major dissatisfaction for Japanese gamers, with just 15.3 percent of them satisfied about the games available for the system. Compare that to nearly 50% of DS owners who are happy with the games available for the DS.

As for "customer satisfaction" I've heard you and Ka-chan complain about DS (and Ka-chan's complain is silly ) and many more about PSP so as far as I'm concerned that's a win for the DS.

Actually I stated I enjoyed my DS, my only complaint is I do not like most of the games, which is the complaint for the PSP you quoted. So that really comes down to personal preference of gaming titles not so much about the quality of the system which is what we were talking about. However since you bring the point up, I will not argue the fact that the PSP lineup is pretty bleak, it does have a few more games I enjoy over the DS. I just like the system all in all better especially now that its functionality has been effectively doubled for me. Also seriously on the games, you pulled Japanese figures..Please remember this is a group that made a game like Nintendogs one of the biggest selling titles....I mean seriously.....While I like a great number of their games I hardly take the Japanese gaming audience even moderately seriously when it comes to gaming taste. Lets be honest some of the most popular games for them are some of the most retarded games on the planet.

I don't need figures,

Case and point...

word of mouth travels and I'm not going to buy something I've heard numerous reports of failure. Though the main thing that stopped me from buying it was the price, as much as an XBox when it was first released over here. Only reason I bought a DS was for Phoenix Wright but I'm very happy with the other games I have on it (besides Worms, that sucks).

More importantly, I like annoying you and you keep throwing fuel onto the fire

Then you are wasting your time, because you hardly annoy me. Honestly this little argument you keep attempting to fan the flames on is more of a source of amusement to me then anything.

[Sugami]

Then you are wasting your time, because you hardly annoy me. Honestly this little argument you keep attempting to fan the flames on is more of a source of amusement to me then anything.

Uh-huh, which is why you're arguing so fiercely.

Price difference alone shouldn't make one out-sell the other by almost twice as much.

Besides the price and UMD I thought it was gonna be good (though I wasn't going to buy it) then my friend told me about his brother's one breaking within a couple of months, 3-6 hours battery life (another friend tells me it's almost always 3 hours on the dot) then even more stories about them breaking and such. Yes you will come across some that break but it seemed way too much than expected.

About a year back the price dropped by £100(ish) over here, desparation on Sony's behalf perhaps? And still more expensive than DS Lite but guess that's just so they don't lose even more on production cost.

And yes Nintendogs is stupid think kiddies like it though. I also don't see the attraction in Harvey Moon whatever and Animal Crossing.

[Tivia]

Uh-huh, which is why you're arguing so fiercely.

You clearly missed the RMT and Macro/Botting Debates between Prrsha and myself if you think I am arguing fiercly, this is at best a token effort from me.

Price difference alone shouldn't make one out-sell the other by almost twice as much.

Shouldn't and Didn't are two different terms. It is hard to say honestly the Majority of the complaints I have heard by far about the PSP is price. Given that Nintendo has Owned the Handheld market for years, the DS plays GBA games and has a Massive nearly exclusive fanbase, It makes me wonder why it only merely Doubled the PSP. If you really consider how large the handheld nintendo market really is, the fact that the DS only sold double might just be a win for Sony considering Every Single handheld before it Failed miserably.

Besides the price and UMD I thought it was gonna be good (though I wasn't going to buy it) then my friend told me about his brother's one breaking within a couple of months, 3-6 hours battery life (another friend tells me it's almost always 3 hours on the dot) then even more stories about them breaking and such. Yes you will come across some that break but it seemed way too much than expected.

About a year back the price dropped by £100(ish) over here, desparation on Sony's behalf perhaps? And still more expensive than DS Lite but guess that's just so they don't lose even more on production cost.

All technology drops in price, nothing to do with sales figure. PS2 dropped from its original $299 in less then a year and you cannot argue it was the #1 console by a landslide. That point is moot.

And yes Nintendogs is stupid think kiddies like it though. I also don't see the attraction in Harvey Moon whatever and Animal Crossing.

We agree on something.

[Fiye]

xD

Animal Crossing is just a time sink. It's like playing a Blue Mage is any non-FF game, or ever Pokemon. Gotta have 'em all!

[Karou Ariyen]

Sug, I don't like the dual screen/stylus bit. The DS was awkward for me to use, and I dont like having to look at 2 screens. It's a nice design, but it's not something I like. I use my PSP for a movie player, I've got tons of UMD's and flash sticks of MP4 converted Movies. I'm actually excited I can use it to hook right into my PS3 (soon I hope). Now to those who think I'm dogging Nintendo.... just stop right there. I own every fugging gameboy ever release. I still play my gameboy advance SP. Nintendo owns the handheld market. I use my PSP for movies not games. So sit on that sony you rat arseholes.

[Sugami]

Shouldn't and Didn't are two different terms. It is hard to say honestly the Majority of the complaints I have heard by far about the PSP is price. Given that Nintendo has Owned the Handheld market for years, the DS plays GBA games and has a Massive nearly exclusive fanbase, It makes me wonder why it only merely Doubled the PSP. If you really consider how large the handheld nintendo market really is, the fact that the DS only sold double might just be a win for Sony considering Every Single handheld before it Failed miserably.

Sony also have a huge fanbase hence they called it Playstation Portable selling off the "playstation" name makes all those Sony fanboys want it.
If they outsell the DS then I would consider it a win, hardly count only selling half as many units a win

All technology drops in price, nothing to do with sales figure. PS2 dropped from its original $299 in less then a year and you cannot argue it was the #1 console by a landslide. That point is moot.

Not really. Usually stuff will drop in price gradually but the PSP dropped by £100 over night. Point still stands.

Animal Crossing is just a time sink. It's like playing a Blue Mage is any non-FF game, or ever Pokemon. Gotta have 'em all!

I like the Pokémon games, the main ones that is not the Pinball game and stuff. Still unsure whether to get Pokémon Rescue or whatever it's called

Sug, I don't like the dual screen/stylus bit. The DS was awkward for me to use, and I dont like having to look at 2 screens. It's a nice design, but it's not something I like. I use my PSP for a movie player, I've got tons of UMD's and flash sticks of MP4 converted Movies.

Fair enough, more a personal preferance than a complaint. Dual screen is nothing new, long before Gameboy was around Nintendo made handheld games (only one game on the handheld), which some had 2 screens that crossed over.
I just shrugged the dual screen and touch screen off as another gimmick at first but after getting it most games make good use of it, I was pleasantly surprised

You buy UMDs? Can't you watch mpegs and avis on it anyways? Stupid thing about UMD is that they're region encoded, which kinda removes the usefulness of a portable system. Also think they cost or costed more than DVDs

If I wanted a portable doodars just for movies I'd get a portable DVD player, most are cheaper than PSP anyways and bigger screens too.

[Tivia]

Sony also have a huge fanbase hence they called it Playstation Portable selling off the "playstation" name makes all those Sony fanboys want it.
If they outsell the DS then I would consider it a win, hardly count only selling half as many units a win

Or perhaps people bought it because they wanted a portable multimedia handheld gaming device that had a legitimate chance of being successful and having a game library that was worth playing. Give that in case you forgot the other choice was the Ngage which was a complete piece of crap. Personally at the time I bought my PSP, the DS had no games at all I was even remotely interested in, Nintendo had not put out a game for the Gamecube that had not sucked from my opinion, so what then was my incentive to buy a DS?
Lets take the original DS, I own a DS Lite for reference.
Launch Date Nov 21 2004
Original DS was ugly as sin.
Cost on Launch $149.99, to play games and limited Internet capability with the opera browser.
PSP
Launch Mar 24 2005, a scant 4 months after the DS
Beautifully designed, especially if you are an older gamer like myself.
Cost on Launch $249.99, $100 more then the DS.
Pro's ~ More aesthetically pleasing of a game handheld, Potential to tap into Sony's already massive library since they were the #1 console on the market at that time, Full DVD in the unfortunate form of UMD's capability, Mpeg /Avi playback, and an absolutely spectacular looking screen compared to the Dim pixiliated screen of the DS at that time.
It really was not a tough decision for someone Looking for a single multimedia device not much bigger then a Digital camera.

Not really. Usually stuff will drop in price gradually but the PSP dropped by £100 over night. Point still stands.

DS Price drops.
* March 11 2005 - October 2005 £100
* October 2005 - June 2006 £95
* June 2006 - December 2006 £90
Nintendo DS price history: (United States)
* November 2004 - November 2005 $149.99
* November 2005 - Present $129.99

PSP Price drops
Original price £214.99/US $249.99
Launched in US Mar 24 2005, priced dropped to $199US Mar 2006
Launched in UK Sept 1 2005, Price Dropped Mar 2006 to £189.99
Corresponding directly to the 1 year price cut of us units.

The PSP became the fastest selling console in history, with more than 185,000 units sold in its first four days in UK shops

Get your Facts straight. The point is Still Moot as it was hardly overnight, and not anywhere close to £100. If you wish to debate with me fine, be my guest. But do not continue to waste my time with Wild speculation and facts pulled out of thin air. You are quickly beginning to erode my assumption you are not another Fanboy hater without any more basis for your dissent other then personal opinion. If you do not like a System that is entirely your choice and right. I have plenty of things I dislike, the Xbox is one of them. However what is not your right is to make up crap and try to quote it as hard fact, when it is nothing more then heresay and personal opinion. I dislike the Xbox but that is personal opinion, it does not make it any less of a stellar console to those who's game library it appeals.

[Kintrra]

Or perhaps people bought it because they wanted a portable multimedia handheld gaming device that had a legitimate chance of being successful and having a game library that was worth playing.

Personal Opinion

Personally at the time I bought my PSP, the DS had no games at all I was even remotely interested in, Nintendo had not put out a game for the Gamecube that had not sucked from my opinion, so what then was my incentive to buy a DS?

Personal Opinion

Original DS was ugly as sin.

Personal Opinion

PSP
Beautifully designed, especially if you are an older gamer like myself.

Personal Opinion, and being an "older" gamer (read, old enough to buy the stuf fmyself) I have to disagree.

Pro's ~ More aesthetically pleasing of a game handheld

Personal Opinion, and again, I disagree. Since my aesthetics tell me the damned thing costs way too F@#!ing much for a handheld.

It really was not a tough decision for someone Looking for a single multimedia device not much bigger then a Digital camera.

And yet, as a gaming system, PSP fails. Also personal opinion.

You are quickly beginning to erode my assumption you are not another Fanboy hater without any more basis for your dissent other then personal opinion.

And you're quickly proving that you will not allow anyone to disagree with you in the case that you feel you are right. It seems to be a case of "I'm right, you're wrong, and if you disagree with me, YOU'RE STILL WRONG!"

If you do not like a System that is entirely your choice and right. I have plenty of things I dislike, the Xbox is one of them. However what is not your right is to make up crap and try to quote it as hard fact, when it is nothing more then heresay and personal opinion.

You seem to feel the need to pull up "facts" every time anyone disagrees with you, somewhat akin to the old fall-back of making fun of someone you don't like.

I dislike the Xbox but that is personal opinion, it does not make it any less of a stellar console to those who's game library it appeals.

And this, is probably the only admittance of a fact AND an opinion in the same line I've seen out of that post.

Did I cut out all the "Facts" from your post? Admittedly, yes, I did. And this is to prove a point. You can throw in as many facts as you like. Your post is still full of YOUR opinions. No matter how many facts you pull up and throw at someone, you're not going to change their opinion.

[Tivia]

Or perhaps people bought it because they wanted a portable multimedia handheld gaming device that had a legitimate chance of being successful and having a game library that was worth playing.

Personal Opinion

Personally at the time I bought my PSP, the DS had no games at all I was even remotely interested in, Nintendo had not put out a game for the Gamecube that had not sucked from my opinion, so what then was my incentive to buy a DS?

Personal Opinion

Original DS was ugly as sin.

Personal Opinion

PSP
Beautifully designed, especially if you are an older gamer like myself.

Personal Opinion, and being an "older" gamer (read, old enough to buy the stuf fmyself) I have to disagree.

Pro's ~ More aesthetically pleasing of a game handheld

Personal Opinion, and again, I disagree. Since my aesthetics tell me the damned thing costs way too F@#!ing much for a handheld.

It really was not a tough decision for someone Looking for a single multimedia device not much bigger then a Digital camera.

And yet, as a gaming system, PSP fails. Also personal opinion.

You are quickly beginning to erode my assumption you are not another Fanboy hater without any more basis for your dissent other then personal opinion.

And you're quickly proving that you will not allow anyone to disagree with you in the case that you feel you are right. It seems to be a case of "I'm right, you're wrong, and if you disagree with me, YOU'RE STILL WRONG!"

If you do not like a System that is entirely your choice and right. I have plenty of things I dislike, the Xbox is one of them. However what is not your right is to make up crap and try to quote it as hard fact, when it is nothing more then heresay and personal opinion.

You seem to feel the need to pull up "facts" every time anyone disagrees with you, somewhat akin to the old fall-back of making fun of someone you don't like.

I dislike the Xbox but that is personal opinion, it does not make it any less of a stellar console to those who's game library it appeals.

And this, is probably the only admittance of a fact AND an opinion in the same line I've seen out of that post.

Did I cut out all the "Facts" from your post? Admittedly, yes, I did. And this is to prove a point. You can throw in as many facts as you like. Your post is still full of YOUR opinions. No matter how many facts you pull up and throw at someone, you're not going to change their opinion.

I and not going to dignify this waste of time with a step by step retort.

Go back and read Sugami's post and my post again, anyone with the ability to do more the drool should be able to discern the difference between the things that are Opinion and meant to be opinion and the things that are straight facts, and specifically what I am referring to are opinions Sugami keeps attempting to pass off as facts such as the suppossed £100 overnight price drop, claiming the PSP was selling badly which I took the time to prove flatly false.

[Shirai]

I see a console war brewing....

Tone it down!

[Sugami]

Or perhaps people bought it because they wanted a portable multimedia handheld gaming device that had a legitimate chance of being successful and having a game library that was worth playing.

Bullpies! The majority want(ed) it because it is a Playstation.

and an absolutely spectacular looking screen compared to the Dim pixiliated screen of the DS at that time.

Dim? Both DS and DS Lite have backlit screens (can turn it off on DS) but if you use full brightness settings on PSP how much battery time will you get? Guessing 2 hours most considering minimum settings gives 3 hours.

Sugami keeps attempting to pass off as facts such as the suppossed £100 overnight price drop, claiming the PSP was selling badly which I took the time to prove flatly false.

Okay point out where I said they were selling badly? And oh yes I gave facts of them being out-sold by DS by almost twice as much so yeah guess they are selling badly. Explained the £100 price drop below.

DS Price drops.
* March 11 2005 - October 2005 £100
* October 2005 - June 2006 £95
* June 2006 - December 2006 £90
Nintendo DS price history: (United States)
* November 2004 - November 2005 $149.99
* November 2005 - Present $129.99

PSP Price drops
Original price £214.99/US $249.99
Launched in US Mar 24 2005, priced dropped to $199US Mar 2006
Launched in UK Sept 1 2005, Price Dropped Mar 2006 to £189.99
Corresponding directly to the 1 year price cut of us units.

Original price my foot, pretty sure it was £240 at least and I specifically remember seeing in Virgin Megastores advertising it as something like "was £240, now £150".

If you're going to pull facts out of your ass at least give reference.

PSP current price

£150 basic package (no games) like I said I'm almost confident it started at at least £240 which is a drop of £90 over the course of its (current) life cycle, if it started at £215 then that's still a drop of £65. Whereas the DS only dropped by £10 and partly is because of the DS Lite being released.

Point still stands.

My beef with the PSP is about how fragile it is and how portable it is not (2.5 hours UMD, 3 hours games != portable). Those are the facts, you want a reference for those? Here you go.

And now for something completely different.

[Kintrra]

I see a console war brewing....

Tone it down!

Where've you been to miss it?

I and not going to dignify this waste of time with a step by step retort.

Go back and read Sugami's post and my post again, anyone with the ability to do more the drool should be able to discern the difference between the things that are Opinion and meant to be opinion and the things that are straight facts, and specifically what I am referring to are opinions Sugami keeps attempting to pass off as facts such as the suppossed £100 overnight price drop, claiming the PSP was selling badly which I took the time to prove flatly false.

All I did was pull out all of the opinions that you were passing off as facts, just as you're accusing Sugami of doing.

[Tivia]

I see a console war brewing....

Tone it down!

Where've you been to miss it?

I and not going to dignify this waste of time with a step by step retort.

Go back and read Sugami's post and my post again, anyone with the ability to do more the drool should be able to discern the difference between the things that are Opinion and meant to be opinion and the things that are straight facts, and specifically what I am referring to are opinions Sugami keeps attempting to pass off as facts such as the suppossed £100 overnight price drop, claiming the PSP was selling badly which I took the time to prove flatly false.

All I did was pull out all of the opinions that you were passing off as facts, just as you're accusing Sugami of doing.

Where did I state those as facts? Does not look like I did I even believe I said the word "personally" a few times indicating that was opinion. I made it more then obvious what was a Fact and what was a preference or opinion. Unless you have something to bring to the conversation outside attempting to incite a fight, I suggest you walk away now and leave well enough alone.

I will respond to Sugami when I have a few more minutes then I do at this moment, however you can get most of the Facts from wiki on the two systems and it is generally fairly reliable. The rest is easily searched on google for old news articles, once again not terribly hard to locate.

Oh and MSRP and what a Merchant is selling it for are somewhat different. Just because Ebay sold PS3's for $2500 for example does not mean the PS3 took a $2000 price drop. Sorry nice try.

[Kintrra]

Where did I state those as facts? Does not look like I did I even believe I said the word "personally" a few times indicating that was opinion. I made it more then obvious what was a Fact and what was a preference or opinion.

Lets take the original DS, I own a DS Lite for reference.
Launch Date Nov 21 2004
Original DS was ugly as sin.
Cost on Launch $149.99, to play games and limited Internet capability with the opera browser.
PSP
Launch Mar 24 2005, a scant 4 months after the DS
Beautifully designed, especially if you are an older gamer like myself.
Cost on Launch $249.99, $100 more then the DS.
Pro's ~ More aesthetically pleasing of a game handheld, Potential to tap into Sony's already massive library since they were the #1 console on the market at that time, Full DVD in the unfortunate form of UMD's capability, Mpeg /Avi playback, and an absolutely spectacular looking screen compared to the Dim pixiliated screen of the DS at that time.
It really was not a tough decision for someone Looking for a single multimedia device not much bigger then a Digital camera.

Awful lot of opinions mixed up in those facts there. <.<;

Unless you have something to bring to the conversation outside attempting to incite a fight, I suggest you walk away now and leave well enough alone.

Do I lol now, or later? o.O Threats are hardly the way to win an argument, especially with someone like myself who's going to shrug you off and keep going. ^^;

And while I could care less which system you want to rally for (since sides have obviously been chosen), what I do care about, is when someone constantly berates someone else for something they themselves are doing. You like to make everyone else tread the technicality line once you decide to start a debate, but you don't toe it quite so well yourself. Not to mention a lot of times you verge on flaming your fellow kitties in the process of trying to win these little debates, especially when it comes down to consoles. Now how about we play nice, hmm?


My apologies Shirai, if I seem to have overstepped my bounds, but one thing I cannot stand is someone pulling the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

[Fiye]

I think GodofGTA3 got the last laugh on this guys.

Imagine all of the DS/PSP or PS3/WII/Xbox360 wars he started because of a few crappy videos.

[Sugami]

Oh and MSRP and what a Merchant is selling it for are somewhat different. Just because Ebay sold PS3's for $2500 for example does not mean the PS3 took a $2000 price drop. Sorry nice try.

What? When'd I ever mention eBay? GAME is probably the most well known computer games and console retailer in UK hence I used it as reference. I also used Virgin Megastores as reference because that's where I first remember seeing the "massive" price cut.

I live in UK, you don't. I think I know more about UK prices than you do.

Nice try at trying at derailing my attack (not).

I see a console war brewing....

Tone it down!

This isn't so much a console war as it is an attack on PSP.

[Karou Ariyen]

delayed Response, Soon as we can figure out how to crack the region code... by the way my PSP has a mod chip in it, yet for some odd reason we still can't crack the region code...

FYI Before anyone goes telling me there are no PSP mod chips, look at this:
http://www.mod-chip.com/en/psp_undilute ... odchip.php

[MittensValefor]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2315484146

LOL! Loved that! This one made me laugh too:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2315484146

But seriously... I don't see what the big deal is. Why should anyone care who buys what system? Live and let game I say.

[Pheonixhawk]

Nomatter how manys systems come out, im not trading my LoZ Twilight Princess for anything. True I got it for Gamecube, but thats allllll I need.

[Sugami]

That's the same video Mittens

[MittensValefor]

That's the same video Mittens

LMAO oops! I meant to say this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2424546470

*double checks the link.* Yup! that's the one!

[Sugami]

Ah yes I've seen that one

[Tivia]

I see a console war brewing....

Tone it down!

No, I own and like both. The only war going on is the one of opinion passed off as fact vs. actual fact.

Regretfully I took longer to get the time to respond to this then I had originally hoped, due to work and a number of other factors I just did not have the time necessary to invest in this. Of course the longer I delayed it appears the longer the time investment became due to more and more responses pushing my ability to respond off further. So, In lieu of a long 7 paragraph retort to all of this mess, I will humor a few people and only touch a few points.

You live in the UK, I live in the US. So what, pricing for both countries is easily verifiable, you mentioned nothing of Ebay I bought it up to prove the point that Just because someone sells something for a certain price does not make that its MSRP. I thought you where intelligent enough to figure that out, now I am left assuming you either are not, or chose to ignore the point because it did not support your stance as you have mostly thus far, obviously I figure the latter is the case. End point is, the MSRP of the PSP is easily verifiable, and it backs up that a price drop such as the one you described never happened. Also as for your renouncement of what you did or did not say, It is quoted thus you cannot retract it. It is also easily verifiable that the PSP was stated as one of the hottest selling portable handhelds on launch in the UK which voids the notion that its price was dropped due to people not buying it.

Concerning your Facts link, that says what? Oh wait it looks like it supports what I was saying. That the only real area the DS wins is in battery life and due to the nature of batteries in that some work better then others, that is hardly much ground to stand on claiming victory. Those were just plain technical specs, and as previously mentioned concerning screen quality and such the PSP is Technically a far better device. Personal preference still stands subject to...Personal preference.

Did I ever say the PSP outsold the DS or even came close to it? Nope. I said for the kind of market it had to Crack into, a market that was dominated by Nintendo, a market where in recent history the only attempted competition to the Gameboy series was the Ngage which was a spectacular flop. Given that the PSP Sold almost half the number of the unit that was Half its cost, and had a strangle hold on the market can be perceived as nothing less then a Win for it. Could Sony expect to outsell the DS/Gameboy off the bat? Sure if they were tripping on acid. Any company creating a product attempting to compete with a long established competitor would be thrilled to nab that kind of market share on a first attempt. The PSP was far from a Failure, by any corporate standard it was a smashing success in fact given the odds it faced out the gate. The number sold support this, in the UK, US and even Japan. Calling the PSP a failure smacks of nothing less then Fanboyish ignorance. Does that mean the PSP is going to eventually outsell the Gameboy/DS line? Hardly it does not target the same demographics.

*Personal Opinion Piece*
You keep ranting about the fragility of the PSP and its poor battery life etc etc. Yet I have not seen a single source of information backing that up. As I said I own both, I get 6 to 8 hours out of my PSP and I get 6 to 8 hours out of my DS lite. My DS lite was Cheaper, Fun and makes a Superb handheld gaming Device. My PSP is Fun and makes a Superb handheld multimedia, gaming and PS3 interactive Device. Does that make either superior to the other? No it makes it Preferential depending on the required use at that given time.

[Sugami]

I get 8 hours a clip out of my battery and in the entire time I have owned it never had a problem, owned since release day.

Considering battery life is quoted as 3-6 hours (and my friend tells me he only gets 3 hours on minimum settings more often then not) I find this hard to believe. Who's making up facts now?

You live in the UK, I live in the US. So what, pricing for both countries is easily verifiable, you mentioned nothing of Ebay I bought it up to prove the point that Just because someone sells something for a certain price does not make that its MSRP.

It's not opinion what current and past prices are. Note that everything in UK is more expensive than US so doing a straight price conversion doesn't work. I asked my friend if he remembered the starting price and he said around £300 for the premium package (case, memory stick and extras).

Secondly bringing up eBay is pointless as it is not a retailer, it's an auction site. I thought you were intelligent enough to realise that
Want more pricings?

GAME £149.99
Gameplay £149.99
Amazon.co.uk £134.99
Gamestation £149.99

Note: GAME and Gameplay are the leading UK retailers and usually sell at RRP or not far from it.

The price drop happened, be it over night or several months it's lost its value by around 40% where in comparison the DS has only lost it's value by only 10% and 5% of which is due to DS Lite being released, there's no PSP Lite or PSP2 to explain the dramatic price drop.
I never stated it as fact that is was selling poorly, was merely a hypothesis, get YOUR facts straight.

Sales figures

DS - 26.82mil
DS Lite - 9.06mil
PSP - 22.94mil

That's about 3:2 in favour of DS (including Lite).

Did I ever say the PSP outsold the DS or even came close to it? Nope. I said for the kind of market it had to Crack into, a market that was dominated by Nintendo, a market where in recent history the only attempted competition to the Gameboy series was the Ngage which was a spectacular flop.

I never accused you of it I just restated the DS did better and by quite a bit. Nokia had no grounds in the gaming market and the Ngage was pretty shoddy but Sony have their fat foot in the door and have sold off their name more than anything.

The PSP was far from a Failure

Don't remember calling it a failure, calling it a piece of overpriced crap more than anything else.

I get 6 to 8 hours out of my PSP

Again I call bullsh*t.

You keep ranting about the fragility of the PSP and its poor battery life etc etc. Yet I have not seen a single source of information backing that up.

Try typing "PSP fragile" in google and see how many sites you find. My friend's brother got one imported from Japan when it was recently released, put it in his bag and alas when he got home it was broken. Another friend treats his with the utmost care and his has randomly developed a crack. Someone's reply to GodofGTA said 3 of his friendss PSPs had their analog stick break off.
You call it "heresay" but it's a solid fact for them and they're not very happy about it.

Poor battery life and fragility make it fail as a portable system, oh guess I did say it failed afterall.

NB: Notice how I've never mentioned the game library although you have admitted it being poor. I've been told the majority are sports and racing games with a few ports thrown in. Quite a lot of people unhappy about this, as I found out whilst browsing google.

[Tivia]

Considering battery life is quoted as 3-6 hours (and my friend tells me he only gets 3 hours on minimum settings more often then not) I find this hard to believe. Who's making up facts now?

You either lack the ability to comprehend basic english, or you are just trying to stir the pot now. I stated that comment under Personal opinion which last I checked implies it is in no way a fact.

It's not opinion what current and past prices are. Note that everything in UK is more expensive than US so doing a straight price conversion doesn't work. I asked my friend if he remembered the starting price and he said around £300 for the premium package (case, memory stick and extras).

Secondly bringing up eBay is pointless as it is not a retailer, it's an auction site. I thought you were intelligent enough to realise that
Want more pricings?

GAME £149.99
Gameplay £149.99
Amazon.co.uk £134.99
Gamestation £149.99

Note: GAME and Gameplay are the leading UK retailers and usually sell at RRP or not far from it.

I am glad your friends memory is so perfect it is fact, Rather funny though if you google it the highest "Official" price is £214.99, and its Price drop happens at the same time as the US price drop at its 1 year mark. Just because it had not been in the UK for 1 year does not bear any relevance to the overall market for it. Likewise Individual retailer prices do not determine the official value of an item. Let me give you an example that perhaps you can comprehend.
Product A launches with a MSRP of $230
Retailer A sells the product for $300
Retailer B sells the product for $350
Retailer C sells the product for $275
What is the Value of the product?

It is still $230, Just because Retailer A, B and C mark it up to take advantage of supply and demand, that does not mean the product is suddenly worth more then what the manufacturer Dictates. Ebay was just as valid of an Example as any retailer, it does not matter if the product is sold off a retail shelf for $300, or off Ebay for $2500 because there is little supply and plenty of stupid people, the product still is only worth its MSRP, because Market value is determined by the average price of the machine over a set period of time. Since a new product is not able to have an estabilished timeline the MSRP sets the standard. Please go take an economics class if you want to debate this with me, I will not continue wasting my time teaching basic economics.

The price drop happened, be it over night or several months it's lost its value by around 40% where in comparison the DS has only lost it's value by only 10% and 5% of which is due to DS Lite being released, there's no PSP Lite or PSP2 to explain the dramatic price drop.
I never stated it as fact that is was selling poorly, was merely a hypothesis, get YOUR facts straight.

A price drop happened, not the one you described. A price drop is inevitable on any technology product, it is also basic economics that the higher the value of the item, the larger the inevitable price drop will be. This does not reflect quality or demand in any manner, it reflects the Cost of production. Simple law as more units of a type are manufacturered, the more efficient the process becomes and by comparison the cheaper it becomes.

Sales figures

DS - 26.82mil
DS Lite - 9.06mil
PSP - 22.94mil

That's about 3:2 in favour of DS (including Lite).

PSP has 1 revision and only sold 12 million less units then the DS and DS lite combined, especially when you factor in a large number of DS Lite purchasers were previously DS owners wanting the improved version. Makes it really a great deal more clear how successful the PSP really was especially when you factor in it was twice the cost.

I never accused you of it I just restated the DS did better and by quite a bit. Nokia had no grounds in the gaming market and the Ngage was pretty shoddy but Sony have their fat foot in the door and have sold off their name more than anything.

Quite a bit? according to the above it only looks like it did marginally better.

Don't remember calling it a failure, calling it a piece of overpriced crap more than anything else.

Looking at the numbers above I would speculate a fairly large number of people disagree with you. Either way, this is personal opinion and as I have stated you are entitled to that.

I get 6 to 8 hours out of my PSP

Again I call bullsh*t.

Again you cannot seem to comprehend that not everyone got a bad unit, You have no idea what my personal experience is like, so call bullshit all you want that does not change the fact that my PSP happens to run just as long as my DS.

Try typing "PSP fragile" in google and see how many sites you find. My friend's brother got one imported from Japan when it was recently released, put it in his bag and alas when he got home it was broken. Another friend treats his with the utmost care and his has randomly developed a crack. Someone's reply to GodofGTA said 3 of his friendss PSPs had their analog stick break off.
You call it "heresay" but it's a solid fact for them and they're not very happy about it.

Poor battery life and fragility make it fail as a portable system, oh guess I did say it failed afterall.

NB: Notice how I've never mentioned the game library although you have admitted it being poor. I've been told the majority are sports and racing games with a few ports thrown in. Quite a lot of people unhappy about this, as I found out whilst browsing google.

I have owned the same PSP since they launched in the US, I stood in line for a midnight release. I handle mine with the same care I handle all of my expensive electronics. To date, I have not a single Scratch in the face, never had the analog stick break, or have I had any battery troubles or for that matter any shattered UMDS. Once again I work in the warranty business and there is no such thing as a perfect product, you will get good experiences and bad experiences. If the majority have bad experiences, a produce will get recalled. Manufacturers are held to a 5% or lower failure rate or they are liable to Class action Lawsuits. thus far there is no Class action against the PSP and until about 1.2million PSP units Fail for the same or similiar reason's you can bash the quality all you like but that does not make it a fact on any level.

I deal with hundreds of escalations per week on any given electronic device and computer, according to the people who own the broken item, it is the biggest piece of crap on the market. I understand how they feel but again, just because it broke for you does not mean it broke for anyone else. It is also a fact in the warranty business that people will claim a product is defective regardless of if the breakage percentage is 1% or 50%, just because theirs is broken, in my business 90% of the people who "claim" they were careful with their product are full of crap, If I believed every one of them and did not require product to be sent in for testing to validate, We would get frauded by more people then I could count. The PSP is not fragile, and does not suffer from any problems on a scale large enough to warrant any official attention. Once again, the Vocal few does not make it a fact. I am sorry they got a bad unit, but that is luck of the draw with anything you buy, at least 3% will always be bad, if not there would be no need for warranties both manufacturer and extended.

I am ending this debacle at this point, You can respond if you wish but thus far the only thing you have done is sound like a broken record repeating the same Mantra of "Well my friends experience, and I think" Frankly I could give a flying flip what your friends or you think. I work in the business daily, the Numbers are easy enough to pull if you know where to look. If you want to hate the system because of the company, feel free. I hate maxtor because I went through a 6 month debacle with them with getting one DOA hard drive after another. However keep it to yourself, and quit spreading rumors, heresay and outright lies about a system you do not own, and do not even have a concept of how many actually broke compared to how many where actually sold, compared to how many of those broken where due to neglegence, misuse and abuse. Until you know those numbers, your opinion is just that and opinion. A few thousand complaints on a system that has sold multi millions is a drop in a bucket, a few hundred thousand complaints on a system that has sold multi millions is still not even worth paying attention to. Until you see enough complaints to exceed 5% of the total gross volume sold, The hate is misplaced.

I end with this,
I own both, I think the PSP is a great handheld that does a lot of really neat things and I enjoy it highly. I wish it had a better game selection, but I have more then gotten my moneys worth out of it given the period of time I have owned it. I think the DS Lite is great, same wish however, I wish the Game library was better. right now I only really play new SMB.

In addition the PS3 is a spectacular system, tons of features everything the PS2 was not and then some. The Wii is just a killer amount of fun and one of the most fun consoles I have had for years. Xbox 360, is a great system for those who's game library it appeals to. I can only hope that Nintendo and Sony both manage to get their online service up to the level Xbox live is, I would like to have access to something like that with games that I enjoy. Why did I bring these up as well? simple because they have All had failures and widespread complaints about various things. Wii the Strap breakage, and bricked systems from the Firmware update. PS3, bricked systems from Firmware update and some limited overheating, Xbox bricked systems from firmware and everyone remembers how many of their launch systems overheated. Does that make any of the systems bad? nope, all of them stayed well within expected failure tolerances.

[Sugami]

You either lack the ability to comprehend basic english, or you are just trying to stir the pot now. I stated that comment under Personal opinion which last I checked implies it is in no way a fact.

I've been stirring the pot for a while now. You said you get 6-8 hours, that's not opinion that's fact according to you and I'm calling it bull.

I am glad your friends memory is so perfect it is fact, Rather funny though if you google it the highest "Official" price is £214.99, and its Price drop happens at the same time as the US price drop at its 1 year mark. Just because it had not been in the UK for 1 year does not bear any relevance to the overall market for it. Likewise Individual retailer prices do not determine the official value of an item. Let me give you an example that perhaps you can comprehend.
Product A launches with a MSRP of $230
Retailer A sells the product for $300
Retailer B sells the product for $350
Retailer C sells the product for $275
What is the Value of the product?

Yes my friend has good memory and I remember it being more than £214.99. Given the fact that we both live here in sunny ol' UK I'm gonna take his and my word over what google has to say. I just did a quick check and I can't find it on google, reference or I'm calling it bull again (which it is anyways).

If you had bothered to look at the sites you'll notice they all quote RRP if there's a price difference, this is because they want to tell you have much you'll save You'll also notice how all but amazon have the same sale price which is in fact at RRP and amazon are known for selling cheaper.

Really don't need to address your so called price hikes because
1) they're not relevant
2) (offical) retailers here sell at RRP or lower

A price drop happened, not the one you described. A price drop is inevitable on any technology product, it is also basic economics that the higher the value of the item, the larger the inevitable price drop will be. This does not reflect quality or demand in any manner, it reflects the Cost of production. Simple law as more units of a type are manufacturered, the more efficient the process becomes and by comparison the cheaper it becomes.

Like I said before; Virgin advertised the price drop I saw so it did indeed happen.
You'll notice I used percentages to describe the price drops. This takes into account the difference in starting price and makes it good for comparison.

Need I reiterate? PSP started at £300/£240/£215 and current RRP is £150. So that's a price drop of £150/£90/£65, which is 50%/37.5%/30.2%

DS started at £100 and current RRP £90 that's a price drop of £10, which is 10%.

Even if I use your bullcrap starting price it's still 3 times more than the DS price drop. Even without looking at DS that's one bigass price drop with no explanation other than "things get cheaper" but not usually by that much.

Quite a bit? according to the above it only looks like it did marginally better.

3:2 is more than "marginal", this coming from a mathematician.

Looking at the numbers above I would speculate a fairly large number of people disagree with you. Either way, this is personal opinion and as I have stated you are entitled to that.

I'd speculate more people disagree with you. Numbers don't say how many people purchase it and then regret it a week to several months later and curse ever wasting money on the piece of junk.

Again you cannot seem to comprehend that not everyone got a bad unit, You have no idea what my personal experience is like, so call bullshit all you want that does not change the fact that my PSP happens to run just as long as my DS.

Like I said the "official" numbers contridict you so you're either lying or got lucky, not people being unlucky.

You can respond if you wish but thus far the only thing you have done is sound like a broken record

That's because I'm having to hammer it into your thick skull I might add you've kept repeating the same poor excuse of a defense too.

If you want to hate the system because of the company, feel free. I hate maxtor because I went through a 6 month debacle with them with getting one DOA hard drive after another. However keep it to yourself, and quit spreading rumors, heresay and outright lies

I hate the company and the system. Don't hate one because of the other, both are crap. Rumours are only rumours if they're untrue, I have not lied in the slightest and your "heresay" is very true to the people who've had the experience.

Saying your PSP lasts 8 hours and you've somehow broke 3 DSs in a row... I think you're the one lying here.

Until you see enough complaints to exceed 5% of the total gross volume sold, The hate is misplaced.

Considernig everyone I know who has one has complained about it, that's 100% in my book. You seriously think I'd consider buying something that I've only heard bad things about? I'd say the hate is very well placed.

Listen to Phoenix.

[Vixen]

You either lack the ability to comprehend basic english, or you are just trying to stir the pot now. I stated that comment under Personal opinion which last I checked implies it is in no way a fact.

I've been stirring the pot for a while now. You said you get 6-8 hours, that's not opinion that's fact according to you and I'm calling it bull.

I am glad your friends memory is so perfect it is fact, Rather funny though if you google it the highest "Official" price is £214.99, and its Price drop happens at the same time as the US price drop at its 1 year mark. Just because it had not been in the UK for 1 year does not bear any relevance to the overall market for it. Likewise Individual retailer prices do not determine the official value of an item. Let me give you an example that perhaps you can comprehend.
Product A launches with a MSRP of $230
Retailer A sells the product for $300
Retailer B sells the product for $350
Retailer C sells the product for $275
What is the Value of the product?

Yes my friend has good memory and I remember it being more than £214.99. Given the fact that we both live here in sunny ol' UK I'm gonna take his and my word over what google has to say. I just did a quick check and I can't find it on google, reference or I'm calling it bull again (which it is anyways).

If you had bothered to look at the sites you'll notice they all quote RRP if there's a price difference, this is because they want to tell you have much you'll save You'll also notice how all but amazon have the same sale price which is in fact at RRP and amazon are known for selling cheaper.

Really don't need to address your so called price hikes because
1) they're not relevant
2) (offical) retailers here sell at RRP or lower

A price drop happened, not the one you described. A price drop is inevitable on any technology product, it is also basic economics that the higher the value of the item, the larger the inevitable price drop will be. This does not reflect quality or demand in any manner, it reflects the Cost of production. Simple law as more units of a type are manufacturered, the more efficient the process becomes and by comparison the cheaper it becomes.

Like I said before; Virgin advertised the price drop I saw so it did indeed happen.
You'll notice I used percentages to describe the price drops. This takes into account the difference in starting price and makes it good for comparison.

Need I reiterate? PSP started at £300/£240/£215 and current RRP is £150. So that's a price drop of £150/£90/£65, which is 50%/37.5%/30.2%

DS started at £100 and current RRP £90 that's a price drop of £10, which is 10%.

Even if I use your bullcrap starting price it's still 3 times more than the DS price drop. Even without looking at DS that's one bigass price drop with no explanation other than "things get cheaper" but not usually by that much.

Quite a bit? according to the above it only looks like it did marginally better.

3:2 is more than "marginal", this coming from a mathematician.

Looking at the numbers above I would speculate a fairly large number of people disagree with you. Either way, this is personal opinion and as I have stated you are entitled to that.

I'd speculate more people disagree with you. Numbers don't say how many people purchase it and then regret it a week to several months later and curse ever wasting money on the piece of junk.

Again you cannot seem to comprehend that not everyone got a bad unit, You have no idea what my personal experience is like, so call bullshit all you want that does not change the fact that my PSP happens to run just as long as my DS.

Like I said the "official" numbers contridict you so you're either lying or got lucky, not people being unlucky.

You can respond if you wish but thus far the only thing you have done is sound like a broken record

That's because I'm having to hammer it into your thick skull I might add you've kept repeating the same poor excuse of a defense too.

If you want to hate the system because of the company, feel free. I hate maxtor because I went through a 6 month debacle with them with getting one DOA hard drive after another. However keep it to yourself, and quit spreading rumors, heresay and outright lies

I hate the company and the system. Don't hate one because of the other, both are crap. Rumours are only rumours if they're untrue, I have not lied in the slightest and your "heresay" is very true to the people who've had the experience.

Saying your PSP lasts 8 hours and you've somehow broke 3 DSs in a row... I think you're the one lying here.

Until you see enough complaints to exceed 5% of the total gross volume sold, The hate is misplaced.

Considernig everyone I know who has one has complained about it, that's 100% in my book. You seriously think I'd consider buying something that I've only heard bad things about? I'd say the hate is very well placed.

Listen to Phoenix.

Reading Comprehension FTL.. Christ.
Don't even respond Tivia. Not worth your time.

[Sugami]

Excuse me?

Was there any need to quote it all?

My reading comprehension is just fine, guess yours isn't up to scratch if you didn't understand what I was pointing out.

Need I summarize? Well I will anyways.
I brought up 3 points and disputed one so-called fact.

Firstly; I said there was a big price drop and hyphosized it was due to poor sales, mentioned starting price and gave reference to severl current prices.
Tivia's defense was an incorrect starting price pulled out frmo google and to say the current prices aren't RRP/MRSP. I pointed out my memory is better than google and that the prices are in fact RRP.

Secondly; Here's the big one, PSP battery life is sub-standard and holds the PSP back from being truely portable. Provided link quoting 3-6 hour battery life.
Tivia claims to get 6-8 hours as a defense and that everyone else was "unlucky". I dispute this fact and say (s)he's either lying or is very lucky. Every reviewer says PSP has poor battery life, there is no defense for it.

Finally; I mention PSP's fragility and site reference to several people's experiences.
Tivia's defense is that they're all "unlucky" and without "facts" it can't be true. It's pretty similar to covering your ears and shouting, "BLAH BLAH BLAH! I'M NOT LISTENING!"

Clear and concise.

Reading Comprehension FTL.. Christ.

Sony Fanboy FTL... Jesus.

[Tivia]

Perhaps I am lucky, or perhaps you should have read the part concerning comparitive numbers. a few hundred or a few thousand opinions out of multi millions of units sold really does not mean Jack. Speaking of ignoring things you seem intent on glossing over that one key point.

Any Device that uses a battery has a high, low and median life expectancy. Is mine likely at the high? very likely however that also justifies the fact that It is highly doubtful I am the only one with a good battery life. Anytime a Manufacturer quotes a life expectancy on a device they usually quote the low or median life, never the high as that generates complaints and RMA's. A certain percentage of RMA's are expected with any consumer electronic device. Once again your comprehension of said devices is abysmal, as I said I work in the industry, I see the trends, and am very familiar with how manufacturers quote life expectancies or things of this nature.

So calling the PSP a failure as a portable device based on your opinion of low battery life, in the fact of 20+ million units sold and more continuing to sell every day is about a absurd statement as could possibly be rendered. The only thickheaded person here is you, because the only "Facts" you have are an insignificant group of complainers who make up less then 3% of the total sales of the PSP.

Concerning your Jab at my having had 3 DS break on me, note I still continue to call it a great handheld. Just because I had a bad streak of luck personally did not dissuade me from the unit or cause me to go around hate mongering on random forums claiming it was a "Fact" the DS was a failure as a handheld. Why? because It was clear given the number sold and the number of complaints that I simply had some bad luck, it sucked I got my RMA, got it replaced then sold it when the DS Lite came out and bought one of those instead.

I am done with this, I will no longer continue to respond to an argument as this ceased to be any form of a debate long ago, and to be honest I have better things to do with my day then to continue arguing with someone who has not the faintest clue what they are talking about.

[Sugami]

I didn't ignore or gloss over it.

Low is 3 hours, high is 6 hours. Your 8 hours as I said is either a lie or is extremely lucky.
I dare you to find a review (not someone complaining or a fanboy making up facts) that quotes the life higher than 6 hours, 'cause I sure the hell can't find one.

You stop trying to argue because it can't be won. Just for several references;

4-6 hours
3-6 hours
90mins-3hrs playing Ridge Racer, up to 6 hours playing simple games. Even says Sony stating around 6 hours battery life.

Something about build quality

I have better things to do with my day then to continue arguing with someone who has not the faintest clue what they are talking about.

Oh really? What about all the people who get paid to review consoles and such? Do they also not have a clue?

Let me translate the last thing you said.

/(>_<)\ BLAH BLAH BLAH! I'M NOT LISTENING!

Do yourself a favour; get your fingers out of your ears and stop shouting.