Elitest + Bitch = Blist

Post by **Sugami** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:02 pm

I wasn't going to tell this story but then something happened (that will become apparent) so I thought I'd share.

I pop on my WAR58, put my flag up and within a minute I get an invite. I graciously accept and head off to camp.

Get to camp, off my choco and the leader asks me if I have Axes (I like to walk around town with my Great Axe, it looks cool). I say yes but I need to cap my Great Axe first.
Enter the elitest bitchings, she goes on about how we NEED Rampage for Chain 5s (bullsh*t) and to level Great Axe (an A+ over A- weapon) in skillup parties.
Dispear and anger rising I say we don't NEED anything but no the bitching continues. She says how she got WAR75 and was told to level Great Axe in skillup parties, I told her she should have told them to shove it (poser), she keeps on and tells me to use the "better weapon" (again A+ over A-).
I ask her if she really has a problem with me using Great Axe, she says yes, I tell her to find another WAR, disband and add her to the blist.

Get back to Whitegate then I get another invite. Join and shortly later the SAM from my last party joins this one. He didn't much like her bitchings either and left, then the leader of my new party asks if it's a SMN named Yarla (which it was). Turns out he partied with her the day before and all she did was bitch.

Whiney elitest bitch is infamous

What goes around comes around and the more she bitches at people the less everyone will want to party with her.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:38 pm

So get into a pt with last night on my sam. well after a war falls asleep we geta blu as a dd. now no biggie it was late and the war fell asleep, that was okay. we only had an RDM but beating up those toucan's wasnt a problem. we ask him to use healing breeze and magic fruit. What do we get? "Anything else to your liking master?" Great, a wise guy. we asked nicely too oi.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:08 pm

The first time I ever kicked anyone from a party was a WAR that refused to use Axe and wanted to skillup G.Axe. This was level 75 in the renkei days -- we needed mistral for renkei and MB. I did ask the war before we even invited to come as war/nin and use 2xAxe, so that's where the similarity between these situations end. If you don't let them know what you expect BEFORE you invite, you have very little excuse for being upset with a war that wants to abuse the party to skillup.

I wouldn't have gotten emotional about it, but I would have said "I'm sorry, we would like you to use 2xAxe. If that doesn't work for you, I can find a replacement." I know how long it takes to skill G.Axe and I know exactly how good it is as a weapon. It's not like skilling dagger -- capped in two fights. It barely caps before you ding again and the dps sucks.

There's absolutely no excuse for her not being polite about it or trying to "school" you. It is never good to bitch at people. She should have been very clear from the start, though. WAR in particular needs to be told up front before invite what the party needs. WAR has so many different useful weapons and subjobs. They vary greatly depending on the party and the critters being killed. You must let them know BEFORE they leave the city what you want from them.

The good of the party comes first, always. Some folks don't mind running a party or being in parties where everyone just does their own thing. Sometimes when I don't feel like leading or putting much effort into XP'ing, this is OK for me, too. Mostly, though, I prefer a nice disciplined efficient XP machine. It's something to strive for and really fun when you achieve it.

Yeah, it sucks keeping all your rarely used weapons capped so you can use them if the situation demands it, but that's just part of playing WAR. You have to do a lot of skillup parties in addition to XP parties. It's also one of the strengths of the job -- being able to use many weapons well.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:02 am

Whiny yes. Bitch yes. Elitist? I don't think do.

Post this on the GameFAQs board (motto: more elitist than you) under some title like "Is this an elitist?" and see what answers you get.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:40 am

Tsybil wrote:Whiny yes. Bitch yes. Elitist? I don't think do.

I agree with Tsybil on this one. She was rude, obnoxious, inconsiderate, and overbearing, but not elitist. The latter is when someone sends you a tell like "Hi, care to party?" And then you show up as and she sends you another tell, "Oh, you don't have Ridil? I'm sorry, finding a replacement."

BTW, all Mithra are elitist. Cats are just naturally better than everyone else. Mithra have no need to belabor the point. It's just assumed everyone understands. It's a cat thing.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:01 am

I've seen GAs out DoT Axes (if how fast hate was pulled off of me per fight was any indication), so the DoT argument doesn't EVEN hold weight. And like it was mentioned, A+, versus A-, you're looking at roughly the same delay. So you can hit for like...70-80 per axe (total 140-160 per 'round'), or you can hit for 200 or more with a good GA. I rest my case. ~.~

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:04 am

I think you might want to consider parsing yourself versus yourself rather than using agro as an indicator. Agro doesn't work at all for comparing damage. You could be comparing a top G.Axe to a poor 2xAxe; ie. you could just be comparing gil rather than weapon-types. Also, enmity and evasion/blink differences will seriously skew the agro. Enmity is pretty damn nice stuff when you're trying to hold solid hate. It's a giant monkey-wrench in the gears when you're trying to gage DPS via agro. Just a slight difference in enmity makes a big difference in hate.

Also, A+ v. A- have identical skillcaps until level 61. Skill-cap isn't really quite as important as how nice the weapon itself is -- within reason. You can stretch it down to B- beating A+ at 75 versus XP critters. This is why Ridil works as a weapon for War (B sword skill). It's why some DRK75 (B- axe skill) XP with 2xAxe over GS or Scythe if their Axes are nice enough (eg. those that are rich or also have WAR75). Some weapons are overpowered enough to make up for a loss of skill.

G.Axe does have it's uses. High DPS just isn't one of them.

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:14 am

DRKs that use Axes need to be shot.

At my level there really is very little between Axe and Great Axe, just Rampage obviously and on these high evasive mobs it can fall short quite easily.

Great Axe is just as important as Axe is to WAR, even when SCing I'd quite happily let a WAR use theirs to skillup and we find another SC but saying Rampage was needed to get Chain 5s is complete BS, that's like saying you can't get Chain 5s without a WAR.

Every party I've been in up to now haven't complained, most have been quite supportive. It's like telling a DRK to only use Scythe till 66 then making them spend 2 weeks of solid skilling. Feel sorry for DRKs, needing to keep two 2-handed weapons capped must be a real chore

.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:03 pm

Can I join in on the bitchfest with my #1 complaint: PLD's who don't use Cure then blame the healer for their death?

Seriously. These idiots are clearly the product of powerleveling and my biggest annoyance in the game. When I party with a PLD I keep Haste and Regen II on them and throw out a Flash when needed. The only time I throw them a cure is if they hit the yellow and have no MP.

Cure is one of the many tools PLD uses to keep hate (Duh) so why should I, the WHM, use it on them when they are able to do it themselves?

Back on topic: Sug, she was a douche. If the leader has specific things they want, they should say so before inviting (You could have asked, too) but elitist, no. Still, I would have blacklisted her for that.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:50 pm

Actually, when I do whm for a party with a PLD, I definitely cure them as much as possible. I like to let them keep their MP for agro. They don't usually have enough MP or refresh to completely self-heal and they can't sit down without loosing TP (another agro method). The less MP the PLD uses during a fight, the longer the chains. If he's not holding agro, then that's a problem. I usually try to leave enough cure-space on a PLD so they can self-cure for agro. If you heal 'em to full, they can't do that.

The good PLDs will usually get mad if you don't leave them space for a self-cure at least at the start. One CureII near the front really helps them hold agro.

OTH, a PLD that dies with a full MP bar is one dumb PLD. Kinda makes me wonder. Was he eating ATK food, too!?

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:35 pm

Okuza wrote:I think you might want to consider parsing yourself versus yourself rather than using agro as an indicator. Agro doesn't work at all for comparing damage. You could be comparing a top G.Axe to a poor 2xAxe; ie. you could just be comparing gil rather than weapon-types. Also, enmity and evasion/blink differences will seriously skew the agro. Enmity is pretty damn nice stuff when you're trying to hold solid hate. It's a giant monkey-wrench in the gears when you're trying to gage DPS via agro. Just a slight difference in enmity makes a big difference in hate.

Also, A+ v. A- have identical skillcaps until level 61. Skill-cap isn't really quite as important as how nice the weapon itself is -- within reason. You can stretch it down to B- beating A+ at 75 versus XP critters. This is why Ridil works as a weapon for War (B sword skill). It's why some DRK75 (B- axe skill) XP with 2xAxe over GS or Scythe if their Axes are nice enough (eg. those that are rich or also have WAR75). Some weapons are overpowered enough to make up for a loss of skill.

G.Axe does have it's uses. High DPS just isn't one of them.

Same person. Same Gear. GA instead of Axes. When nothing changes, I think it works just fine to figure out what's going better. ^.~ And I'm sorry if you feel that you have to have a parser to back up every number. I feel confident enough with my estimation (not to mention my tanking) to feel the difference between a WAR with GA and a WAR with Axes. Find someone who actually has GA capped like they do their axes. Then do your wonderful little parser tests or whatever. If they're smart to begin with, and their Accuracy isn't completely shot to hell and back, that GA should DPS close to the same if not better than dual axes.

MittensValefor · Post by **MittensValefor** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:56 pm

Guess I'm lucky 'cause I don't remember many times when anyone griped about what weapon or spells I use in a party. When they did I'd /cry, switch, and skill in the next party. It was usually someone else in the party that wound up the focus for someone's bitching and I'd drop the party when I'd heard enough.

I think everyone is elitist to a certain degree. I admit I'm an elitist myself. I'd chose a Rank 8 DRK over a Rank 2 WAR. I'd chose a 30SMN/15WHM over a 30WHM/10RDM. I'd chose an NA over a JP... The list goes on.

I guess my point is that I agree she was elitist for demanding one weapon over another and I'da dropped the party too. No game is fun for me when I have to put up with a whiney baby.

(BTW so far my G.axes have always signifigantly outdamaged my axes.)

Post by **Sugami** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:04 pm

I think PLDs keeping themselves alive kinda runs out around Lv.50, maybe sooner. Even with their big VIT/DEF setups etc. the mobs do start hitting harder, especially past 60 and a PLD's MP pool alone won't last him/her that long but they do need to cure themselves a bit to keep hate, otherwise they're just a WAR with more DEF and less damage (though a WAR can get an impressive amount of DEF/VIT they usually don't

).

Back to the subject at hand; Great Axe is the second highest damage weapon in the game (Scythe being 1st I think), A+ skill and it's a very important to a WAR's arsenal.

The only time I'd want a WAR to use Axe over Great Axe is when making a SC and there is no SC possibly with the Great Axe.

I just tend to call every asshat elitest these days, if the shoe fits huh? Sure grumble to your friends if you want but unless it's really hurting the party don't push your opinionated (and usually wrong) views on others.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:06 pm

Sugami wrote:The only time I'd want a WAR to use Axe over Great Axe is when making a SC and there is no SC possibly with the Great Axe.

GA has Full Break and Steel Cyclone, both of which close Darkness off of NIN (the "preferred" tank) with Blade: Ten and Blade: Ku. <.<;

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:16 am

Yeah but you know how anal NINs are about using their precious Jin

It's also a bit much to ask the full time tank to be in the SC as well

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:28 am

Sugami wrote:Yeah but you know how anal NINs are about using their precious Jin It's also a bit much to ask the full time tank to be in the SC as well

Anal.... there's a joke there I won't touch.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:36 am

I have no problem curing for the tank, I just don't want to tank myself. I'll keep Regen II up on them and throw out a Cure as needed between fights and after a big hit but beyond that the PLD's on his/her own and honestly, that's kept 99.9% of my PLD's alive, when they also add in their own cures. Exceptions being the ones that either had sh*t gear or met a really REALLY pissed off mob that manages to take them from near full health to zero before I can get a Cure off.

I am sorry for derailing Sug's topic and for not more clearly explaning myself.

P.S. The PLD I was referring to was a victim of FFXI Darwinism. He was wearing the NQ armor with the German name (Level 29 I think) and had a sword around the same level (With the shield you get for unlocking PLD) with no other equipment at level 45 and using Mithkabobs as food. How that guy got that far as PLD I will never know.

P.P.S. Hell, how I haven't been kicked off this site OR made it to level 60 WHM with my attitude I'll never know.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:50 am

NQ Gear is fine so long as it FITS THE LEVEL RANGE :O

its like my problem with enmity on my af sune-ate. here's what I do, I use savage gaiters, I know its level 29 and i should have Fuma, but next to that its the next best gear to use.

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:01 pm

Keavy wrote:How that guy got that far as PLD I will never know.

Quite simply, people need tanks, tanks get invites

Savage gaiters are pretty good (STR+3) if there's nothing better or affordable, only problem is I have to keep out the whole set if I'm using it

Fuma aren't worth the money, 3% Haste (I think) is nothing unless building on a rather sizable amount already.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:57 pm

Derailing again, but I have to know: Does +X% Haste kick in when the spell Haste is cast on you, or do you always get that speed boost?

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:50 pm

Its always active and its stacks with Haste.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:44 pm

Sugami wrote:Savage gaiters are pretty good (STR+3) if there's nothing better or affordable, only problem is I have to keep out the whole set if I'm using it Fuma aren't worth the money, 3% Haste (I think) is nothing unless building on a rather sizable amount already.

Actually, I still use Savage Gaiters at 75 in the set I swap in for WS. I haven't found anything better to wear during WS than that.

You can't beat haste items for DOT. The 3% haste from fuma sounds insignificant, but there's no other shoe that will increase your DOT by 3%. Very little else comes even close to changing your output by that much in one gear slot except for a weapon upgrade. Depending on what you fight and what you eat, you might find that +ACC can do as much or more, but that's very situational. You'll have to parse it to see how your acc gear is working. I don't know of any +ACC shoes outside of the new salvage sune-ate, too.

BTW, haste is great for reducing recast. Again, 3% isn't much by itself, but it does help make tanking easier for anyone using utsu.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:30 pm

No other feet with more STR for NIN?

Generally SAMs don't seem to work much, if any, Haste into their build. It's usually a mix of STR, Attack and Accuracy but since Hasso came along that extra 3% would give you 13% with it up so it might be worth it if you have the moneys.

3% on it's own won't get you an extra hit and probably net you 100% all of 0.3seconds quicker or something rediculously small

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:48 pm

Sugami wrote:No other feet with more STR for NIN?

The footware choices in the Far Eastern set are... lacking.

At SAM 61 my melee kitty is still in Federation Kyhan with Savage Gaiters for WSs.

SAM, NIN, and MNK are not suitable jobs for the Imelda Macros fan.

Sugami wrote:Generally SAMs don't seem to work much, if any, Haste into their build.

For SAM Store TP is bigger than Haste, and you loose too many other things for a Store TP build before endgame. For NIN, Haste reduces their recast timers making a Haste build practical if pricey.

For SAM, haste means stealing Hate. If I have a NIN tank as RDM, no one else gets Haste. On my melee kitty, I will I request no Haste Please and cancel Haste if it is cast on me.

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:06 pm

And your RDMs and WHMs love you for that

I absolutely loved it when I had a DD who knew that they became MP Sponges with Haste and asked to not have it cast on them.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:36 am

Well, the only problem I can see with that Haste-lessness, is that it slows down your pt's killing capabilities. And in the newer areas now, with the extra 1mp/tick Sanction Refresh, MP problems are slightly less than they were. So more commonly now, Haste is just more of a means of getting things dead faster.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:06 am

ScarlettPheonix wrote:And your RDMs and WHMs love you for that

I absolutely loved it when I had a DD who knew that they became MP Sponges with Haste and asked to not have it cast on them.

I absolutely hate it when I had a DD spam "Haste plz" as soon as it wore and continued to do so even while I WAS CASTING IT!!!

I have a lot of rage mainly directed towards the people I party with. I think its because I expect people to understand that my duties in a party are as follows:

1. Keep yo' asses alive.
2. Cast enhancing spells.
3. Remove enfeebles.
4. Look damn good doing it.

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:00 pm

Hehe as a DRG or WAR I don't expect Haste nor will I ask for it but I will be happy if I get it

Not only does Haste help NIN's recast timers but it gives an added kick to their psuedo-Haste from Dual Wield, a double whammy

If a Hasted SAM stole hate from a NIN (pre-WS) that NIN must suck, a SAM's power is from their WS and ability to get TP quicker, standard hits are a little weak compared to the other hard hitting DDs.

As a RDM I'd only Haste one person for a couple of reasons;
1) 40MP is a lot to a RDM.
2) I usually forget to Haste people other than the tank

So glad I'm through with RDM now

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:17 pm

TP parties are a different story when it comes to haste, its traditional parties that I'm usually referring to when I talk about my Haste priorities.

If I'm the main healer- I'm the final say on who gets what buff and in what order. Its not so much the 40MP Haste costs, but the very good chance of having to waste more MP keeping the damage happy fool alive- and for that, yes- I'll happily slow down the speed of the party to keep everyone alive to get exp.

If everyone needs to be hasted to kill at a reasonable rate of speed, then the party is over hunting anyway.

My haste priority is simple:

Tanks (always)
DRGs
THFs (especially if pulling as /nin)
anyone subbing /nin (for recasts)
BLUs
DRK, SAM, MNK (IF subbing something besides /war and only if they don't become an MP Black Hole)

/war? Forget it- No way in hell. I've had to drop too many Cure bombs on too many "HASTE ME!!!s" to make it worth my time, MP- and if they complain too much- my energy or risk my exp to be in that party with them.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:28 pm

I always Haste the Tank (Even if I have 40MP left I cast Haste on the tank before I heal) and the same with Regen II on the Tank. Anyone that needs Haste (2-handed weapon users, NIN subbers, Thief) and Regen II goes to pullers, SATA partners, and the DRK if they're using Souleater.

That eats up a good portion of my MP and covers pretty much everyone. I adjust Haste as needed. Most Monk's at first insist on it, then after the mob lives a little longer than planned and makes them tank they ask to be left out of my Haste cycle.

Believe it or not, I am a competent WHM. Most party members forget i'm there! I'll ding and they'll be like "Oh, hey Keavy. Forgot you were still here. Congrats on the level up."