Next gen console wars

[Tivia]

You read too much into the statement, Fighters are button mashers regardless of if you memorize the combos or not. the PS controllers simply put those in a better location. I memorize the combo's myself, but in the end they are the only game genre in which you can actually beat by just randomly mashing buttons.

[Sugami]

You read too much into the statement, Fighters are button mashers regardless of if you memorize the combos or not. the PS controllers simply put those in a better location. I memorize the combo's myself, but in the end they are the only game genre in which you can actually beat by just randomly mashing buttons.

There's a lot more to DOA then just button bashing and play anyone with a good grasp of the game and you'll find out.

You'll get your ass handed to you if you try button mashing on DOA, unlike Tekken where you can just cheese someone to death.
VF4 (and later ones) also has a counter system to stop button mashing cheese eaters, Soul Calibur has parry and fient and some characters also have counters, even Mortal Kombat has a counter or combo-breaker (can't button bash in MK5+ due to the strict combo system).

Tekken < everything else

I also prefer having the D-pad lower down so prefer the XBox Controller-S and 360 controller over PS2 but like I said not much in it.

[Tivia]

I have watched Button mashers win Doa just as easily as any other. cheese moves or not, I have yet to have anyone who uses the cheap moves or is just a masher beat me at Tekken, it is quite easy to get around them if you know what you are doing, Tekken is full of counter moves.

In the end I imagine it comes down to personal preference, Personally the only thing that I saw in DOA was a half assed fighter with gratuitous T&A, and that was a decision came to After memorizing all the combos and beating everyone I know who plays it regularly.

[Stockyboy]

When I get my Wii, at least I know I'll be getting the console I want. I could care less who thought which console sucked, although I think we can all agree the Doorstop360 sucks.

[Sugami]

Original XBox is more of a doorstop and no it doesn't suck, my shiny copy of Gears Of War says otherwise.

I have watched Button mashers win Doa just as easily as any other. cheese moves or not, I have yet to have anyone who uses the cheap moves or is just a masher beat me at Tekken, it is quite easy to get around them if you know what you are doing, Tekken is full of counter moves.

In the end I imagine it comes down to personal preference, Personally the only thing that I saw in DOA was a half assed fighter with gratuitous T&A, and that was a decision came to After memorizing all the combos and beating everyone I know who plays it regularly.

Button mashers were playing against other button mashers then as anyone who has a good grasp of the game will know what character does what type of attacks and can counter it 9 times out of 10.

Counter moves my ass. Get knocked down and they keep doing that down kick as you get up and you don't do sh*t about it.

Eddie is prime example of a button basher character, just hammer the kick buttons and Bob's your dad's brother. Compare him to La Mariposa and the fighting style (almost identical) is a lot more fluid with her and a lot better implimented.

"Half assed" my ass, said it time and time again the martial arts in DOA are twice as deep as Tekken and actually resembles the fighting styles rather than looking like someone is trying to punch a shark under water.

To be good, and I mean really good, at DOA you need to not only know your character inside and out but the opponents aswell. Whereas in Tekken all you need to do is memorise one of those massively long combos and the other person is fucked.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I didn't write that Sugami. I don't play on consoles.

I am far too old to have used them as a kid, and just never got into them.

I did have a computer before I was 10. It was analog, made of cardboard, and powered by D cell batteries. I got it from an add in a comic book.

[Sugami]

Heh sorry too many people with names starting with 'T' I'll edit it

Speaking about first computers; can't remember how old I was but must have been younger than 10 my dad gave my brother and myself an Olivetti(sp?) 8086 (that predates the 486, which predates Pentiums ).

[Tivia]

Button mashers were playing against other button mashers then as anyone who has a good grasp of the game will know what character does what type of attacks and can counter it 9 times out of 10.

Counter moves my ass. Get knocked down and they keep doing that down kick as you get up and you don't do sh*t about it.

Funny, I do not recall ever having trouble getting out of that move. There are several moves that get you out of this situation, if you cannot then you clearly did not have as many moves memorized as you thought.

Eddie is prime example of a button basher character, just hammer the kick buttons and Bob's your dad's brother. Compare him to La Mariposa and the fighting style (almost identical) is a lot more fluid with her and a lot better implimented.

Easily defeated so long as you do not attempt to be an idiot and try to trade blows without blocking, ducking and countering, even easier to defeat in Tag mode.

"Half assed" my ass, said it time and time again the martial arts in DOA are twice as deep as Tekken and actually resembles the fighting styles rather than looking like someone is trying to punch a shark under water.

To be good, and I mean really good, at DOA you need to not only know your character inside and out but the opponents aswell. Whereas in Tekken all you need to do is memorise one of those massively long combos and the other person is fucked.

To be really good at any fighter is to know all characters inside an out, that is nothing new here. DOA brought shiny graphics, plenty of T&A, and Xbox exclusivity. Played it, beat it, beat alot of people at it, one of my least favored fighters ever produced. Honestly outside of the two things I mentioned I never once felt DOA brought anything meaningful to the fighter genre.

[Sugami]

Pfft shows what you know

What move? There's nothing you can do as you're knocked back down when you try to get up? Maybe they changed it after Tekken 2 but there was abosulely nothing I could do par watch myself get knocked back down time and time again.
Whereas DOA and Soul Calibur allow you to roll forwards, backwards or sideways and come up with an attack (guessing VF is the same), MK can just hold Block as you come up and you'll be fine.

If I had a PS2 I'd get Virtua Fighter over Tekken any day of the week (and also Soul Calibur). I can understand people not liking DOA for whatever reason (usually it's too fast for them) but thinking Tekken is all that great just takes the biscuit.

I never once felt DOA brought anything meaningful to the fighter genre.

How about multi-tiered arenas? DOA2 had tag battles way before Tekken Tag and it's better implimented too. How about the fact that the characters fighting styles RESEMBLED THE GOD DAMN MARTIAL ARTS?! OR THAT HALF THE CHARACTERS AREN'T JUST THE SAME CHARACTER WITH A DIFFERENT MODEL OR SKIN?!

Or even a decent challenge? Try it on Very Hard and see how far you get. Team Ninja know how to make hard games, if you've played Ninja Gaiden then you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Tivia]

So did you play Tekken Tag or did you only play Tekken 2? you have gone back and forth so many times I lost track.

When I stated I beat DOA, that means I beat it on every level of difficulty. I really do not know how to be any more clear then that. As for Virtua fighter...oh please now you are reaching.

[Sugami]

I've played Tekken 2 (friend cheesed me with the down kick thing), Tekken 3 (comes before Tag?) and Tekken Tag. Also Tekken 4 in the arcade briefly (God only knows why, think was my friend's money).

I haven't played VF past 2 but I do know I'd prefer it to Tekken, plus I hear very good things about it.

I'm reaching? Yet you never addressed the slowness of Tekken, the fact that for every character there's like 2 or 3 identical ones, lack of depth and the huge ass combos that are practically unstoppable.

[Tivia]

So in effect, you hardly played Tekken, and played against either someone very good and got your ass whipped, Or played against a button masher who learned how to cheese and thus based your entire opinion of the game off that experience? Where as I played DOA, Mastered it and still walked away disliking the game....

Slow? Outside playing against someone willing to stare you down there was nothing slow about it, even with health maxed out fights between two good players rarely lasted more then 30 seconds.

The combos were hardly unstoppable, once again you display how very little you knew about the game. Two Good players of Equal skill would Rarely pull off any of the super long combo's, because it would get broken. Also all the characters look alike? Wow that is news to me...

Here instead of me listing the Insane number of combos in the game, How about I just give you a link to where you can see pictures of all the characters and how different they all look, and also see just how many combos there actually were. Click on any given character and you will see Pages of combos, individual combos, chain combos, Tag combos you name it. Depth was something the game Did NOT lack. Seriously you have seen me around these boards long enough to know better then to argue with me without all the facts, you should have known if you pushed me I would pull this out.

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekkentag/_combolist.php

[Kintrra]

Alright, had about enough of this. Both of ya get in your corners.

Both games have their good points and both have their bad points. And I've seen button mashers win over the best players at ANY game, so it's possible.

DoA and Tekken are only related in that they're both considered fighting games. Past that, you're comparing entirely different types of games. Each has it's own idiosyncracies that either of you may not agree with personally. But resorting to this argument over them? Yeesh. Neither one is near as horrible as you're both making the other out to be.

[Pheonixhawk]

Nicely put Kintraa.

[Sugami]

So in effect, you hardly played Tekken, and played against either someone very good and got your ass whipped, Or played against a button masher who learned how to cheese and thus based your entire opinion of the game off that experience?

I played Tekken 2 a fair amount, my friend was reasonable as he knew how to cheese that down kick and obviously had more knowledge of the characters. Another friend knew the big-ass combos and for someone relatively new to the game had nothing I could do about it.
Tekken Tag was with a friend who is/was about as good as I was at the time.

Slow? Outside playing against someone willing to stare you down there was nothing slow about it, even with health maxed out fights between two good players rarely lasted more then 30 seconds.

By slow I mean you can walk away, make a cup of tea and come back in the time a character takes to throw a punch. Yes I'm obviously exaggerating but it is slow and jerky in that aspect. My friend who played Tekken 2 (the cheesing one) on playing DOA first thing he said was, "Whoa this is fast." Yes it is but other not-so-fast games such as Soul Calibur and Mortal Kombat are still faster than Tekken.

Also all the characters look alike? Wow that is news to me...

Never said they looked alike, just they were essentially the same. There's 3 Jacks and 2 Kings, there's also a Bear and/or a Panda (Jack style), what about those two stick people? Kangeroo and the Raptor... need I go on?

Click on any given character and you will see Pages of combos, individual combos, chain combos, Tag combos you name it. Depth was something the game Did NOT lack.

A big array of combos does not mean depth. I've said it time and time again I want to see depth in the martial arts and/or fighting styles the characters are supposed to be using. Tekken just looks like a bunch of stupid looking people throwing and the odd punch and kick whereas DOA, Soul Calibur and even Mortal Kombat, to a lesser extent, all resemble the martial arts they're trying to duplicate, in the case of the first two it's just a astonishing to the level of detail they went into.

I'll argue till I'm blue in the face there's no way I'll ever admit Tekken to being anything but a mediocre fighter.

[Tivia]

So in effect, you hardly played Tekken, and played against either someone very good and got your ass whipped, Or played against a button masher who learned how to cheese and thus based your entire opinion of the game off that experience?

I played Tekken 2 a fair amount, my friend was reasonable as he knew how to cheese that down kick and obviously had more knowledge of the characters. Another friend knew the big-ass combos and for someone relatively new to the game had nothing I could do about it.
Tekken Tag was with a friend who is/was about as good as I was at the time.

Slow? Outside playing against someone willing to stare you down there was nothing slow about it, even with health maxed out fights between two good players rarely lasted more then 30 seconds.

By slow I mean you can walk away, make a cup of tea and come back in the time a character takes to throw a punch. Yes I'm obviously exaggerating but it is slow and jerky in that aspect. My friend who played Tekken 2 (the cheesing one) on playing DOA first thing he said was, "Whoa this is fast." Yes it is but other not-so-fast games such as Soul Calibur and Mortal Kombat are still faster than Tekken.

Also all the characters look alike? Wow that is news to me...

Never said they looked alike, just they were essentially the same. There's 3 Jacks and 2 Kings, there's also a Bear and/or a Panda (Jack style), what about those two stick people? Kangeroo and the Raptor... need I go on?

Click on any given character and you will see Pages of combos, individual combos, chain combos, Tag combos you name it. Depth was something the game Did NOT lack.

A big array of combos does not mean depth. I've said it time and time again I want to see depth in the martial arts and/or fighting styles the characters are supposed to be using. Tekken just looks like a bunch of stupid looking people throwing and the odd punch and kick whereas DOA, Soul Calibur and even Mortal Kombat, to a lesser extent, all resemble the martial arts they're trying to duplicate, in the case of the first two it's just a astonishing to the level of detail they went into.

I'll argue till I'm blue in the face there's no way I'll ever admit Tekken to being anything but a mediocre fighter.

Honestly any fighter a new player is going to get dominated by an experienced player, either by cheap moves or long combos. I fail to see the validity of your arguement here. Honestly it is starting to sound more like you whining that your only experience in Tekken was you getting "Pwned" by your friends.

My point in pointing out the sheer number of combo types was to end your argument that there was no way to break the massive combos and cheese moves. If you take the time to see what all is available you will see that I was in fact correct when I stated there is a counter moved for nearly everything. Just because you did not know how does not make it nonexistant.

Concerning speed, Tekken was on the same level of other fighters during its genre. Honestly you cannot fault it for following the trend of all fighters of that time. However just because DOA is faster does not make it any better of a fighter. You keep boasting about "Real Martial Arts", Have you ever watched a "Real" martial arts tourney? I have watched many and the large percentage of the "Flamboyant" moves in DOA I assure you are not used and are nothing more then show. Now granted it makes it pretty and visually appealing but to declare them as "Real Martial Arts" is misleading.

So we are at an impasse, you refuse to see tekken as anything more then mediocre, I imagine you feel the same about the other great fighters that came before it, and I refuse to see DOA as anything other then a mediocre fighter that only sold due to gratuitous amounts of T&A.

[Kintrra]

I.E. you're both being stupidly stubborn. Enough said. Drop it. ~.~

[Sugami]

Sorry Kintrra just stop looking at this topic

Honestly any fighter a new player is going to get dominated by an experienced player, either by cheap moves or long combos. I fail to see the validity of your arguement here.

Difference between Tekken and other fighters is a relatively unexperienced player has a better chance than whereas in Tekken they can only watch themselves get walked over. From what I remember it only takes one hit to land then you can't do anything about it.

My point in pointing out the sheer number of combo types was to end your argument that there was no way to break the massive combos and cheese moves. If you take the time to see what all is available you will see that I was in fact correct when I stated there is a counter moved for nearly everything. Just because you did not know how does not make it nonexistant.

Which game did they appear in? 4? I'm almost certain they weren't in the manual for Tag and leaving you to work out a very important aspect to the fighting engine is beyond stupid.

Concerning speed, Tekken was on the same level of other fighters during its genre. Honestly you cannot fault it for following the trend of all fighters of that time. However just because DOA is faster does not make it any better of a fighter.

No but slower makes it worse. Other fighters have moved on but Tekken still stays as slow as ever.

You keep boasting about "Real Martial Arts", Have you ever watched a "Real" martial arts tourney? I have watched many and the large percentage of the "Flamboyant" moves in DOA I assure you are not used and are nothing more then show. Now granted it makes it pretty and visually appealing but to declare them as "Real Martial Arts" is misleading.

Flamboyant styles perhaps, such as Ninjutsu (4 separate styles), Drunken Boxing, Iron Fist, Pai Gi Quan, Snake & Crane and Tai Chi but that's to add variation. It'll all be rather boring if everyone used Karate. The characters with the more well known martial arts such as Karate, Jeet Kun Do and the wrestlers aren't at all "flamboyant" and exhibit their martial arts flawlessly (e.g. Karate being very direct).
Garanteed that every move each character does is from the martial art they're duplicating be it flamboyant or not, giving you the option to use all the kicks and punches each style has to offer makes the martial art more complete and believable.

When I play a fighter I want to see a martial artist go through the motions not see some pixels clumsily move to a few button pushes.

And yes I've seen a fair few tournaments, often the simpliest moves are the most effect hence you don't see the "flamboyant" stuff you'd see in DOA and Jackie Chan films.

You said DOA brought nothing to fighters but just what has Tekken brought to the table besides duplicated characters and overly large combos?
It can't be a counter system, pretty sure DOA was the first game to introduce that. Not multi-tiered interactive arenas, DOA beat them to that too (pretty sure Tekken doesn't use it either). Graphics, oh that's right DOA trumps them again. They weren't the first 3D fighter as Virtua Fighter takes that award. Largest combos? Oh no that goes to Killer Instinct.

Other games have moved on or died out, Tekken just gets a bit prettier, adds more duplicated characters and combos and maybe the odd side game and that's it.

[Tivia]

Difference between Tekken and other fighters is a relatively unexperienced player has a better chance than whereas in Tekken they can only watch themselves get walked over. From what I remember it only takes one hit to land then you can't do anything about it.

Oh please there is not a single fighter out that an experienced player will not walk all over an inexperienced one.


Which game did they appear in? 4? I'm almost certain they weren't in the manual for Tag and leaving you to work out a very important aspect to the fighting engine is beyond stupid.

The list I posted was for Tekken Tag which was the one I have been speaking of. However combos have been in every single one.


No but slower makes it worse. Other fighters have moved on but Tekken still stays as slow as ever.

Really? have you played one of the newer installments? I suspect not. Once again do not render an opinion unless it is based in facts, I will shoot it down every time.

Flamboyant styles perhaps, such as Ninjutsu (4 separate styles), Drunken Boxing, Iron Fist, Pai Gi Quan, Snake & Crane and Tai Chi but that's to add variation. It'll all be rather boring if everyone used Karate. The characters with the more well known martial arts such as Karate, Jeet Kun Do and the wrestlers aren't at all "flamboyant" and exhibit their martial arts flawlessly (e.g. Karate being very direct).
Garanteed that every move each character does is from the martial art they're duplicating be it flamboyant or not, giving you the option to use all the kicks and punches each style has to offer makes the martial art more complete and believable.

When I play a fighter I want to see a martial artist go through the motions not see some pixels clumsily move to a few button pushes.

And yes I've seen a fair few tournaments, often the simpliest moves are the most effect hence you don't see the "flamboyant" stuff you'd see in DOA and Jackie Chan films.

I do not view DOA as complete or believable, the flamboyancy only really masks the fact that as a fighter the game is mediocre at best and the only thing that sold the game was T&A. DOA did not bring anything new to the table except that. They copied the same formula that had been around for years, which there is nothing wrong with. They then added a bunch of female fighters who were proportionally unrealistic at best, in skimpy clothing and added as much eye candy as possible and called it a new game. Oh Good job tecmo you took a standard fighter template and reskinned it. Sorry but it really does not matter what you say, if you eliminate the skimpy outfits and oversized physics defying titties then DOA is just another generic fighter in a sea of them. I happen to prefer Tekken, but that is a personal preference there plenty of other good fighters that could just as easily take its place. Best comparison would be with Soul Caliber, the only difference between those two is DOA just happen to have more visually appealing females.
You said DOA brought nothing to fighters but just what has Tekken brought to the table besides duplicated characters and overly large combos?
It can't be a counter system, pretty sure DOA was the first game to introduce that. Not multi-tiered interactive arenas, DOA beat them to that too (pretty sure Tekken doesn't use it either). Graphics, oh that's right DOA trumps them again. They weren't the first 3D fighter as Virtua Fighter takes that award. Largest combos? Oh no that goes to Killer Instinct.

Lets see where to start on this one.

Dead or Alive
Publisher: Tecmo
Platforms: PlayStation | Saturn
Release Date: Oct 09, 1997 (JP) (JP)

Dead or Alive 2
Publisher: Tecmo
Platforms: PlayStation 2 | Arcade Games | Dreamcast
Release Date: Oct 16, 1999 (JP) (JP)

Tekken
Publisher: Namco
Platform: ARC
Release Date: 1994 (US)

Tekken 2
Publisher: Namco
Platforms: PlayStation | Arcade Games
Release Date: 1996 (US)

Tekken 3
Publisher: Namco
Platform: ARC
Release Date: 1996 (US)

Tekken Tag Tournament
Publisher: Namco
Platform: ARC
Release Date: 1999 (US)

Who was First again? Oh wait was that Tekken? My my how time clouds memory, thank god for easily searchable answers on the internet.

Other games have moved on or died out, Tekken just gets a bit prettier, adds more duplicated characters and combos and maybe the odd side game and that's it.

Edit: "Other games have moved on or Died out, Tekken just keeps proving that if the gameplay is solid then you do not need hentai in a game just to sell it."

Fixed.

[Sugami]

The list I posted was for Tekken Tag which was the one I have been speaking of. However combos have been in every single one.

I was talking about whatever crap you class as a "counter". I'm well aware combos have been in it since Tekken 1.
I've had fair amount of experience with 2 and Tag and I distintly remembering looking through Tag's manual at all the moves they list. Damn positive it didn't list any "counters".

Really? have you played one of the newer installments? I suspect not. Once again do not render an opinion unless it is based in facts, I will shoot it down every time.

I played whichever one was the most recent in the arcades aboout half a year ago, guess that was Tekken 5. Still as slow as I remembered 2 and Tag to be.

I do not view DOA as complete or believable, the flamboyancy only really masks the fact that as a fighter the game is mediocre at best and the only thing that sold the game was T&A.

And fighting raptors, bears and devils and angels that shoot fire at you is believable?
So a fighter where characters display martial arts flawlessly is mediocre, wow I must have got this all wrong

DOA did not bring anything new to the table except that. They copied the same formula that had been around for years, which there is nothing wrong with. They then added a bunch of female fighters who were proportionally unrealistic at best, in skimpy clothing and added as much eye candy as possible and called it a new game.

You said I hated Tekken cause I got "pwned" at it but seems like only reason you hate DOA is the fanservice.

Proportionally the characters are very realistic, all the females just have DD-cups and overly bouncey boobs (which can be changed with the age option).

Who was First again? Oh wait was that Tekken? My my how time clouds memory, thank god for easily searchable answers on the internet.

Tekken was first at what? Being released? Well done have a cookie.
What it lacks is relative pace, comprehensive fighting engine, counter system (not just a move or two) and more freedom (side stepping doesn't cut it I want to move 8 ways freely).

Another Tekken "fan".

You've still yet to say what exactly Tekken has brought to the fighting genre, wonder if that's because it hasn't brought anything another game has already done and done better.

Once upon a time I did like Tekken but that's when the only other games were as slow and jerky as it was (Soul Edge, Virtua Fighter 2, MK4 was actually faster but not sure where that comes in the time-line).
Then Soul Calibur and DOA2 (and later MK5) came along and opened my eyes to how crappy Tekken actually is, I was no longer blissfully ignorant.

[ScarlettPheonix]

You two gonna stop sometime before the New Year hits?

Not that this isn't entertaining to read, but it just seems to me that the two of you just prefer different styles- and arguing about it just becomes silly after awhile.

/2 gil.

[Tivia]

Dear PS3 Haters,

http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/3310/ ... -ray_movie

Thanks for letting the rest of us have a Great system.


Back on topic since I have not really had the time.

I never said Tekken brought anything special to the table. I stated that the only thing making DOA marketable was the Fan service as without it the game was trash. Tekken unlike DOA while it has its flaws did not rely on fan service to sell, It instead focused on solid physics, good combos, a solid counter system and utilized a Formula that fighters had proved successful time and again, and while you may disagree I know far more people that enjoy tekken in the long run then DOA. Everyone I know enjoyed DOA for a few days, until the amusement of the pretty graphics and fan service wore off, then they realized how poor of a fighter it really was and It collects dust. Do not get me wrong, DOA had the potential to be a great fighter, regretfully Team Ninja chose on selling Fan service instead of game play.

Why am I against the Fan service? I am not against it in general, I am against it when they use it to sell an otherwise mediocre product.

[Kessa]

Thanx for that info Tivia

[Sugami]

What a load of bull. What "solid physics"? You want solid physics? How about the way characters fall down differs depending on how they get hit or where they get hit from? Falling on their ass if they're legs get kicked away, "bouncing" off walls etc. Tekken has none of that. Or an 8-way run system? Oh dear, doesn't have that either.

Good combos? Please. Memorising 4 button sequence is a sure win for some characters (whorewang). Not to mention how rigid it all looks and feels. It's either combo A or combo B no variation in the combos like Punch Punch Kick Kick or Punch Punch Kick Punch Throw.

Solid counter system? Where? Point me to it 'cause I sure the hell can't see it and my friend (not any of the ones I played Tekken with) who was a Tekken 3 fan and master said they were either not worthwhile or can only be pulled off by fluke (he plays DOA4 now).

What's this "utilzed formula"? How to design stupid looking characters and make them move slow and jerkily?

Seems like the Tekken fanboys are also Sony fanboys so it really makes sense as to why it's so popular
I can accept people not liking DOA. I can accept people finding Tekken "fun". But what I can't accept is Tekken being anywhere near a "good fighter".

As for the fanservice, it's made by Japanese men so it's to be expected. But why not make characters look nice and pretty instead of stupid and... stupid?

Edit: I guess this thread explains a lot. I feel a lot like the OP but what it really cracks down to is this game is no fun unless you master it. How can you put time into a game to master that you don't find fun? Sorry, not for me and I still stand by everything I said.

[Tivia]

What a load of bull. What "solid physics"? You want solid physics? How about the way characters fall down differs depending on how they get hit or where they get hit from? Falling on their ass if they're legs get kicked away, "bouncing" off walls etc. Tekken has none of that. Or an 8-way run system? Oh dear, doesn't have that either.

Good combos? Please. Memorising 4 button sequence is a sure win for some characters (whorewang). Not to mention how rigid it all looks and feels. It's either combo A or combo B no variation in the combos like Punch Punch Kick Kick or Punch Punch Kick Punch Throw.

Solid counter system? Where? Point me to it 'cause I sure the hell can't see it and my friend (not any of the ones I played Tekken with) who was a Tekken 3 fan and master said they were either not worthwhile or can only be pulled off by fluke (he plays DOA4 now).

What's this "utilzed formula"? How to design stupid looking characters and make them move slow and jerkily?

Seems like the Tekken fanboys are also Sony fanboys so it really makes sense as to why it's so popular
I can accept people not liking DOA. I can accept people finding Tekken "fun". But what I can't accept is Tekken being anywhere near a "good fighter".

As for the fanservice, it's made by Japanese men so it's to be expected. But why not make characters look nice and pretty instead of stupid and... stupid?

Edit: I guess this thread explains a lot. I feel a lot like the OP but what it really cracks down to is this game is no fun unless you master it. How can you put time into a game to master that you don't find fun? Sorry, not for me and I still stand by everything I said.

Thanks for the thread link you just resolved the argument. All the players in that thread that their basic experience has been DOA like well..DOA, all the Players who have been gaming since Fighters first started coming out and all the Tournament players like Tekken...and it is explained in that thread clear as Day Why they like it and why Tekken is in national Tournaments and DOA is not.

I leave this with a final thought, while I am not a tourney player for Fighters I do compete in tournaments for other Genre and games have to meet a stringent set of standards to be considered Competition worthy Especially when you factor Sponsors and money into it. Tekken has proved itself Competition worthy through several iterations, while DOA remains at best a Fanboy button mashers dream. You know I really did not want to get into the token insults but seriously the attempted stab at Sony fanboys really crossed the line. It honest is not a matter of Sony, MS or whoever, I disliked DOA when it was on the playstation I dislike it on the 360. It really does not matter what platform a fighter is on, it is either a Good fighter or it is not. Since I am a competative type gamer I think like one and DOA is a crap game from that perspective, and thank you kindly for linking to a forum that has frequent tournament players who back up the same type of thinking.

[Sugami]

I'm sure there are DOA tournaments, like there's most likely Virtua Fighter ones, Street Fighter 2 Turbo, MvC2 etc. pretty much any "big name" fighter will no doubt have tournaments.

I still think Tekken is crap.

And I didn't see anyone on that forum saying DOA was crap.

Edit: DOA Tournaments, told ya.

[Tivia]

I saw several stating DOA was crap.

running a tournament for 1 game does not make it competition worthy. Tekken is involved in major multi-Genre gaming tournaments meaning it is accepted by more then just its own dedicated Fanbase. The fact that DOA fans had to start their own mini tournament because none of the major organizations would pick it up make it more then clear what type of game it is for the non fanboys.

Edit: Oh wow look at the prize list...Tshirts, energy drinks and Xbox live subs...Wow I just want to run right out. Pfft Please I have been involved in Tournaments for Mods that are bigger then that waste of time.

[Kintrra]

BY HELL BOTH OF YOU SIT THE HELL DOWN AND CHECK YOURSELVES!

Good god, you're acting worse than a couple of 6-year-olds arguing over who's got the better toy.

Tivia doesn't like DOA and THINKS it's a "mediocre" fighter. Guess what dearie? You're entitled to your opinion. Just because you are, doesn't mean everyone's gonna agree with you, no matter how many facts you try to throw behind it. Deal with it.

Sugami doesn't like Tekken and THINKS it's a crappy fighter that's too stiff and has too many copied characters. Guess what? You're entitled to your opinion too, and not everyone's gonna agree with you either. Ya know what? You're gonna have to deal with it too.

For the love of fur, the both of you could've just agreed to disagree instead of degrading into this "my game is better than your game" crap.

[Sugami]

I'm just saying s'all

Never stated had to be big cash prizes and I'm sure there are plenty of other tournies out there. And for your information the tournaments were for 2 games; DOA3 and DOA4 so

Nope no one saying it's crap. Checked through all 2 pages. Only people that didn't "like" it are the ones that don't like 3D fighters in general.

I stopped trying to convince you why DOA is great and was just trying to get out of you why Tekken is so good but you keep ragging on DOA as if it killed your brother.

Well you want to know why Tekken has more tournaments than DOA? It's because it was out first and it's a Sony title, that's all. Not because it's a "better game" ('cause it clearly isn't), get enough people to like a competitive game and there will be tournaments for it, no matter how good or bad it is. Just look at Halo, piece of crap that is and I'm pretty sure there are tournaments for it. That's the truth no matter what you think or say.

[xaresity]

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