Communication in parties

[Cyndari]

I didnt realize how important in party communication is until yesterday. Im out in Sauromongue farming for R2 when I get a /tell:
"Care to pty?"

"Sorry farming at the moment"

"Plz we really realy need a whm for our party."

"But I have a gimped sj"

"Thats OK"

"I am also lacking Raise2 and Erase. I am farming to raise cash for R2"

"Thats OK as long as you can cure were fine"

"Your party will be fine with this?"

"Yeah"

"OK Ill join ya"

So I go to Gustav Tunnel and were fightin gobs and the NIN dies so I raise him and he says "Why did you Raise me? Dont you have R2?" When I tell him no, he flips about me not having R2. So then the PLD says "do you at least have Erase?" again I said "No." Then the PLD says "Why are you even seeking when you dont even have the necessities?" So I then tell everyone "Ummmmm I wasn't seeking a party, I was farming for R2. Your leader asked me to join. Before I joined I told him that I didnt have R2 or Erase and he said that it was fine, so if there an issue talk to him." From there they all spoke in jp, I guess they were rippin on the leader, though nothing was said after that, we just partied til i left.

This why communication by the leader is important to teamwork

[angelstar107]

Avast, it's sad by true.

Having been through a lot, and playing the game for over a year (Playtime: Over 200 days), I can completely agree.

I have been around a lot. As a Mnk, I was always yelled as for not dealing a lot of damage (Don't ask...), so I gave it up at 20. I was a Warrior before that, but I couldn't stand letting people die and I was a lousy tank. Bye bye, warrior.

So I tried thf. Never made it past 10. Goodbye Thf. I tried Whm. I was fine with it, but people complained I didn't heal enough (conserving MP [Never gimping it. Don't confuse the two]), or healed too much. *sigh* All was fine til 36... Invites stopped coming. Goodbye Whm. Tried Blm. Hit level 10, deleveled, quit it. Goodbye Blm. Tried Rdm, soloed it to 20. I learned a lot soloing Rdm to 20. Was totally worth it. Rdm to 50. Got quiet some times, but then my friends move to Remora, and the rest quit. All alone, I abandoned my main and gave up all magic.

~On Remora...~

Again, I did the whole War/Mnk thing. Mnk to 18, War to 37, Got Drg, Drg to 60. Holy crap, I did something right O.O; -.- Leveling Thf, Nin, Sam, and some other jobs now. Was in a static, but Rdm quit, and the static fell apart. Nin is in the works.

Anyway, as a Drg, I get a lot of questions when I'm seeking.

"Wanna party?"
"I'm farming at the moment."
"We could use you."
"Am I the puller?"
"No."
"So, I'm DD then?"
"Yes"
"Ok"
"Got a Scorpion Harness?"
"No..."
"Sniper Rings?"
"No..."
"Merman's Gorget?"
"Saving up."
"Nevermind. We don't need you. We'll get the Brd."

...? did I miss something there...

Anyway, I've earned a lot since then. Just need 2 sniper rings now -.-; f*** the SH. Over-rated anyway..

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

/comfort Cyn

At least you did it right, the party lead is the one who goofed.

[ScarlettPheonix]

I know I gave you a lot of tough love over your last thread, but this post won't be like that, I promise.

You did everything right, so try not to be too upset.

Communication is very important, especially on the leaders part. I static as my main with 4 ls friends a couple of nights a week and whoever lost the roll for leader always oks any invites with the rest of us before offering the invite.

That being said....we still managed to get a 6th member who died 2x on the way to camp on monday

Glad to hear that your working on getting R2 and Erase btw^^

[Losfuin]

"So, I'm DD then?"

...

"Nevermind. We don't need you. We'll get the Brd."

Maybe it's just my lack of partying with BRDs, but... WTF?

<- is confused

[ScarlettPheonix]

"So, I'm DD then?"
"Yes"
"Ok"
"Got a Scorpion Harness?"
"No..."
"Sniper Rings?"
"No..."
"Merman's Gorget?"
"Saving up."
"Nevermind. We don't need you. We'll get the Brd."

From the sound of it they took back the invite cause of her lack of uberness, not cause she was going to be dd. I hate the "must have everything shiny and blingy" attitude of this game sometimes.

I'll raise you one...I got uninvited to a party because I sub /smn as rdm exclusively. The blm wanted me to sub /blm even tho 1) there was a blm and 2) there was a whm already in the party.

lol oh well, I got a party invite a few mins later. Its good to be rdm^^

[Dukuji]

Behold the power of {/Anon}! One night I left it off to see how many random invites I could get. I got 14 invites in little over 3 hours as a NIN/WAR (not including that about 5 of those people asked more then once over those 3 hours). All without my flag up mind you; must have been a shortage of tanks that night.

Doesn't seem to matter though. Even as a NIN63/THF20 I'll still get hammered with invites so I find {/Anon} is the only way to go if you really don't want to party up.

But something I found interesting Cyndari is that there was a NIN and a PLD in the party (all in their late 50's I'm guessing). Unless the NIN was not tanking (which I assume they were since he/she did die, which means they had a good chunk of hate, which went through both lines of shadows and killed him/her, which is tough to do before 65 without provoking and with a PLD at the helm). That would have been my first impression that the PT was doomed. Who cares if the WHM doesn't have their spells, you've got two tanks. As a ninja, if I get asked to tank and join the party and see that there's a PLD in the group, I ask that either the PLD leaves or I will. Waste of a good DD spot IMO. Tried it once, didn't work. (In an xp-pt post 37 one tank should be able to handle a mob on their own.) I made the PLD mad as hell though when he couldn't pull hate off of me time and time again.

[Nivez]

"So, I'm DD then?"
"Yes"
"Ok"
"Got a Scorpion Harness?"
"No..."
"Sniper Rings?"
"No..."
"Merman's Gorget?"
"Saving up."
"Nevermind. We don't need you. We'll get the Brd."

From the sound of it they took back the invite cause of her lack of uberness, not cause she was going to be dd. I hate the "must have everything shiny and blingy" attitude of this game sometimes.

I'll raise you one...I got uninvited to a party because I sub /smn as rdm exclusively. The blm wanted me to sub /blm even tho 1) there was a blm and 2) there was a whm already in the party.

lol oh well, I got a party invite a few mins later. Its good to be rdm^^

actually no, i woudnt invite you, sorry hun. its a simple fact, if you play a mele around lvl 60ish you NEED acc+ gear. Wars & Drks grab a shitload of acc+ just to hit, sure Drg gets a natural acc boost, but its not that good (+10 acc at most probably) therefor you dont need that. the absolute minimum for any drg ive found is 1x sniper, 1x venerer, mermans gorget, life belt, and RK lance (this is @ 60). that will give you a decent hit rate, if you can afford it than an assault earring is a good investment. you can dibate the value of the SH, but it is the best acc+ thing for drg, sorry hun, it just works that way.

Behold the power of {/Anon}! One night I left it off to see how many random invites I could get. I got 14 invites in little over 3 hours as a NIN/WAR (not including that about 5 of those people asked more then once over those 3 hours). All without my flag up mind you; must have been a shortage of tanks that night.

Doesn't seem to matter though. Even as a NIN63/THF20 I'll still get hammered with invites so I find {/Anon} is the only way to go if you really don't want to party up.

But something I found interesting Cyndari is that there was a NIN and a PLD in the party (all in their late 50's I'm guessing). Unless the NIN was not tanking (which I assume they were since he/she did die, which means they had a good chunk of hate, which went through both lines of shadows and killed him/her, which is tough to do before 65 without provoking and with a PLD at the helm). That would have been my first impression that the PT was doomed. Who cares if the WHM doesn't have their spells, you've got two tanks. As a ninja, if I get asked to tank and join the party and see that there's a PLD in the group, I ask that either the PLD leaves or I will. Waste of a good DD spot IMO. Tried it once, didn't work. (In an xp-pt post 37 one tank should be able to handle a mob on their own.) I made the PLD mad as hell though when he couldn't pull hate off of me time and time again. Wink Wink

dukuji actually this varies, i had a 2x nin party @ 58 ish when i was on rdm... god that was a damn fun party, was pretty good xp too, pretty much in that situation the nin takes the place of something else, ive partied with nin/thf also post 60, SATA Blade:Jin , but generally how it works in a party with 2 nins. one tanks, the other stocks up on magic atk+ gear, the party i was in, the second ninja subbed blm and uses Magic Ninjitzu constantly for damage, cycling to keep up with the elemental weaknesses, ironically he often pulled hate off the "Tank" ninja with just elemental spells, with a pld, i could see this being a viable party (since pld naturally has the ability to hold hate better). second thing, contrary to most belief nin CAN go Nin/Thf post 60, you need a heavily outfitted DD Nin, and a SC with Blade: Jin, but it can be done, and works VERY well. Blade: Jin will do a constant 600-800 damage with SATA and all the Damage gear Nin could put on. making them as powerful as thieves, plus thier mele attacks and ninjitzu make them an intresing combination. unfortunally ive only had the oppurtunity to try this once, im gonna see if i can convince somone in my HNM to give it another shot around 75 and see how it works.

[Dukuji]

Nivez, I'd said nothing against having more then one ninja in a party. Ninja is a very versatile job (unlike PLD) and I say the more the merrier. It's having a tanking Ninja and a tanking PLD that I spoke of. But even in the situations you described (which work very well), there still is only one ninja that is the "tank". You would never want to be in a situation in an xp-pt where you have two full time tanks (decked out in their eva/agi/parrying/tanking gear). If you have one ninja tanking the other will switch to a DD and/or support type role (either using melee and/or ninjutsu for damage, as you described).

*Edit: Fixed spelling errors. x2

[Losfuin]

From the sound of it they took back the invite cause of her lack of uberness, not cause she was going to be dd. I hate the "must have everything shiny and blingy" attitude of this game sometimes.

Oh, I got that part; it just suggested to me that the party set-up was, pretty strange.

[Nivez]

Nivez, I'd said nothing against having more then one ninja in a party. Ninja is a very versatile job (unlike PLD) and I say the more the merrier. It's having a tanking Ninja and a tanking PLD that I spoke of. But even in the situations you described (which work very well), there still is only one ninja that is the "tank". You would never want to be in a situation in an xp-pt where you have two full time tanks (decked out in their eva/agi/parrying/tanking gear). If you have one ninja tanking the other will switch to a DD and/or support type role (either using melee and/or ninjitsu for damage, as you described).

i agree, but cyndari didnt state the nin was in tank mode ;p i assumed he was in DD mode because that would be stupid for him to be in tank mode.

i know what you mean, when i was lvling war, i ran into a party in west altepa around 42 where the party leader invited both a nin/war tank and a pld/war tank and me a war/nin... i switched to war/thf with GA so i could deal more damage, but that still came to the problem of tanking... it ended up we rotated tanking, pld tanked for one fight and the ninja tanked for the next... ironically it worked really well, because it kept the mages and tanks busy... mages mostly curing me >.>; (300+ damage SA Sturmwinds cauze HELLA hate) it ended up being a half decent party, though i agree 99% of the time, it sucks having two tanks.

[Karou Ariyen]

i've had those parties before trust me.

[Cyndari]

In the party I described both the NIN and PLD were indeed tanking
We then had a BRD to refresh and BLM as DD plus a RNG

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I was in a party ~ L 58 - 59 that had a NIN and a PLD. The PLD was being a DD with Greatsword or Earth Staff, Provoked when the NIN's shadows were down. BRD, RDM (me), THF/NIN, another DD. A real blender party. I was the only native English speaker BTW.

The wierd part was, when the THF left we got a RDM/BRD. Great thinks I, massive duplication, there goes the blender. I was soooo wrong. Things got FASTER!!

[angelstar107]

actually no, i woudnt invite you, sorry hun. its a simple fact, if you play a mele around lvl 60ish you NEED acc+ gear. Wars & Drks grab a shitload of acc+ just to hit, sure Drg gets a natural acc boost, but its not that good (+10 acc at most probably) therefor you dont need that. the absolute minimum for any drg ive found is 1x sniper, 1x venerer, mermans gorget, life belt, and RK lance (this is @ 60). that will give you a decent hit rate, if you can afford it than an assault earring is a good investment. you can dibate the value of the SH, but it is the best acc+ thing for drg, sorry hun, it just works that way.

In my own defense, I hit more than a Thf with Scorpion Harness, Sniper Rings, and the whole nine yards. Why? two words: Tentacle Sushi.

I refuse to indulge 9M into a piece of armor. I also refuse to indulge 2M gil for a ring when I hit just as much with Tentacle Sushi as a normal Mithra Drg does who has both those items, and 2 of the rings.

It's not so much I'm lucky. I just know how to effectively compensate for it.

Also, I have long sense aquired a Mermen's Gorget, but, again, I am not about to waste 13M gil on 3 items when I could just spend that on getting a full set of Barone at 70. Everyone is just too elitest to understand that I know what the hell am I doing and thinking. There is a reason my Bazaar comment reads "You, who do not know me, do not judge me on what you see. Judge once you see what I can do."l

[Kintrra]

Heh, I hate when you people try to put us PLDs down as anything other than Tank. We are perfectly capable of DDing same as any other job with our melee. My hit rate and damage may not be through the roof like true DD jobs, but I can DD with any other semi-DD job. I've actually /been/ the other DD in a pt once, with a NIN tank (severe shortage of DDs that day, made me a happy PLD ) and it's the same for me as it is for a WAR with a sub other than NIN. And if need be, I can sub NIN too for DDing. I even keep the swords on hand to do so. All it really takes is a change of gear (DD gear for a PLD does exist, I have an entire setup I carry with me constantly) and a different food from your usual tanking, and a PLD can be a good DD. Besides, 65+ we get Swift Blade.

[JediKitsune]

I'm sure a PLD can deal damage competantly, but I doubt they're ever going to outdamage a tried and true DD job like DRK, SAM, or MNK. They just don't have the abilities for it save like... Berserk if subbing WAR, but their white magic isn't going to do much of anything save a resisted Banish now and then.

I guess you'd just keep a Greatsword or something around for DDing though?

[ScarlettPheonix]

heh my bad Losfuin, from the tone of your post:

angelstar107 wrote:
"So, I'm DD then?"

...

"Nevermind. We don't need you. We'll get the Brd."


Maybe it's just my lack of partying with BRDs, but... WTF?

<- is confused

It didn't seem like you saw why they went with a bard.

actually no, i woudnt invite you, sorry hun. its a simple fact, if you play a mele around lvl 60ish you NEED acc+ gear. Wars & Drks grab a shitload of acc+ just to hit, sure Drg gets a natural acc boost, but its not that good (+10 acc at most probably) therefor you dont need that. the absolute minimum for any drg ive found is 1x sniper, 1x venerer, mermans gorget, life belt, and RK lance (this is @ 60). that will give you a decent hit rate, if you can afford it than an assault earring is a good investment. you can dibate the value of the SH, but it is the best acc+ thing for drg, sorry hun, it just works that way.

And then there are those of us who believe the simple fact that Job>Gear hands down no matter what, sweetie. Having good/decent gear is necessary for any job I'll agree, but as long as everyone knows and does their job then I'm a very happy RDM.

Lacking a major spell/weapon skill does make you less effective but thats the same as with having a seriously underleveled sub job. Not that you should neglect your gear, but why stress over getting the best if all you can reasonably expect to afford/acquire is good or decent?

When someone complains about a party member its 9/10 cause they don't know how to do their job.

I've heard so many times:

"Damn this guy sucks..."
"Why?"
"He has no freakin clue how to SC/pull/MB/handle a refresh/haste cycle/etc"

I've never heard:

"This guy sucks cause he has none of the uber gear that any good tank/dd/mage must have to be good!"

I will invite someone who I know can do their job even if they don't have the latest best gear for their level because when it all comes down to it, honestly, you're remembered by your job performance. Not your gear.

[Losfuin]

heh my bad Losfuin, from the tone of your post:
It didn't seem like you saw why they went with a bard.

No problem ^^ Text can make it kinda hard to get everything across clearly.

[Nivez]

actually no, i woudnt invite you, sorry hun. its a simple fact, if you play a mele around lvl 60ish you NEED acc+ gear. Wars & Drks grab a shitload of acc+ just to hit, sure Drg gets a natural acc boost, but its not that good (+10 acc at most probably) therefor you dont need that. the absolute minimum for any drg ive found is 1x sniper, 1x venerer, mermans gorget, life belt, and RK lance (this is @ 60). that will give you a decent hit rate, if you can afford it than an assault earring is a good investment. you can dibate the value of the SH, but it is the best acc+ thing for drg, sorry hun, it just works that way.

In my own defense, I hit more than a Thf with Scorpion Harness, Sniper Rings, and the whole nine yards. Why? two words: Tentacle Sushi.

I refuse to indulge 9M into a piece of armor. I also refuse to indulge 2M gil for a ring when I hit just as much with Tentacle Sushi as a normal Mithra Drg does who has both those items, and 2 of the rings.

It's not so much I'm lucky. I just know how to effectively compensate for it.

Also, I have long sense aquired a Mermen's Gorget, but, again, I am not about to waste 13M gil on 3 items when I could just spend that on getting a full set of Barone at 70. Everyone is just too elitest to understand that I know what the hell am I doing and thinking. There is a reason my Bazaar comment reads "You, who do not know me, do not judge me on what you see. Judge once you see what I can do."l

hun, your a kitty, your supposed to hit more than a thief, not to mention thiefs are the best DD anyway (good in SC bad in everthing else), true you hit alot, but thats because of your food. in reality, i would rather see someone deck themselves out on acc+ gear, then use atk+ food, they will do more damage and hit the same ammount, because pure attack does play a role in your acc (not nearly as much as pure Acc, but some) this is just my view of how a job like drg or even war should play. this is just how i see incredible damage come from drg's othewise thier damage is just mediocre and not comparable to that of a war or drk or mnk... sort of the runt of the litter so to speak.

[angelstar107]

Nivez-chan.... Tentacle Sushi = Acc food.

Dex and Agi +2
Mnd -3
Acc +19%
Double Attack +1%

>.> I never said nothing about Atk+ food. Don't touch the stuff.

[Kistala]

hun, your a kitty, your supposed to hit more than a thief

This makes no sense.

What does race have to do with class? Does that mean that a mithran summoner should be able to hit more than any thief of any race, mithran included?

race != job

[Ambrey]

hun, your a kitty, your supposed to hit more than a thief

This makes no sense.

What does race have to do with class? Does that mean that a mithran summoner should be able to hit more than any thief of any race, mithran included?

race != job

Race meaning Mithra have the highest natural Dex and Agi. I myself as a 62war/31nin have all of my geared for Str and Att bonus, creating much more damage when I hit. I have never used sniper rings, nor do I need them. I am also aware of the need for acc being I am a melee. I have done much research on various foods and tried many. Lately I have been using Sole Sushi and Yellow Curry. I use Sole Sushi as much as possible, till some bastard jacks the price on it then I use Yellow Curry till the price goes back down. And either food I have not had any complaints with so far. Here is a very useful link that displays all stats for foods: http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/food.php#Complete_List

[Kistala]

hun, your a kitty, your supposed to hit more than a thief

This makes no sense.

What does race have to do with class? Does that mean that a mithran summoner should be able to hit more than any thief of any race, mithran included?

race != job

Race meaning Mithra have the highest natural Dex and Agi. I myself as a 62war/31nin have all of my geared for Str and Att bonus, creating much more damage when I hit. I have never used sniper rings, nor do I need them. I am also aware of the need for acc being I am a melee. I have done much research on various foods and tried many. Lately I have been using Sole Sushi and Yellow Curry. I use Sole Sushi as much as possible, till some bastard jacks the price on it then I use Yellow Curry till the price goes back down. And either food I have not had any complaints with so far. Here is a very useful link that displays all stats for foods: http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/food.php#Complete_List

You missed my point. Being a certain race does not mean you can match against a certain job. Should any Mithra be able to hit more than a Mithra Thief, for example? It's like trying to compare your CPU's speed with the size of someone else's RAM size.

[Karou Ariyen]

the problem with ALL jobs is race, now before you go off on me listen to me pls. Every race has a strong stat point. Mithra's are high DEX sucky strength. Any job a mithra plays needing those stats, they'll focus on bringing their strength up to par. If a race who has more str then dex plays those same jobs, they focus on bringing up their DEX over their STR. trust me I've seen sucky mithra before who focused on dex over str and make warrior a bad named job.... no that mithra wasnt in mithrapride, their were a fugging gilseller prolly.

[Ambrey]

the problem with ALL jobs is race, now before you go off on me listen to me pls. Every race has a strong stat point. Mithra's are high DEX sucky strength. Any job a mithra plays needing those stats, they'll focus on bringing their strength up to par. If a race who has more str then dex plays those same jobs, they focus on bringing up their DEX over their STR. trust me I've seen sucky mithra before who focused on dex over str and make warrior a bad named job.... no that mithra wasnt in mithrapride, their were a fugging gilseller prolly.

LOL Dont forget us kitty's got great Agi too, its all in the tail!

[Nhiha]

i must say that i am a 34drg/war and i murder everything i have nvr had ppl tell me drg is bad ive gotten more invites faster as drg than i ever did as war or thf and i think im a decent player but im not ashamed to ask a more experienced player for help