Dark Knight > Dragoon

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:25 am

Ok, I don't think The Dragoons do or don't solo issue will be resolved at the moment. It's just a matter of personal opinion and interpretation.

Side note, however, two hours are usually an OH SHlT manuver. Mnk, Thf, Pld, Sam, Smn, Whm, Blm, Rdm and so on. Drgs hav no O.S. option, no safety net.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:40 am

Eviticus wrote:Ok, I don't think The Dragoons do or don't solo issue will be resolved at the moment. It's just a matter of personal opinion and interpretation.

Side note, however, two hours are usually an OH SHlT manuver. Mnk, Thf, Pld, Sam, Smn, Whm, Blm, Rdm and so on. Drgs hav no O.S. option, no safety net.

Then what's the point of making sure to have it charged when fighting an NM? Possibly because when your Wyvern dies you say "Oh sh*t!" and jump to your Call Wyvern macro? "Aye!", says Captain Obvious.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:59 am

Captain obvious is a moron

I think a lot of DRGs will say SE have boned them sideways, as you guys have said having Call Wyvern a 2hr really does suck. BST can whip out a jug pet at any time (past 20 I think) or charm a pet whenever, SMN can summoner an avatar whenever they feel but poor DRGs have to wait 2 hours if they're unlucky.

Generally if I'm in trouble I say "Oh sh*t!" and dismiss my ickly wyvern as I don't want to be waiting to get her back

wyvern won't save your neck if you're in deep doodoo

Neoshinobi · Post by **Neoshinobi** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:39 pm

Sugami wrote:Captain obvious is a moron

I think a lot of DRGs will say SE have boned them sideways, as you guys have said having Call Wyvern a 2hr really does suck. BST can whip out a jug pet at any time (past 20 I think) or charm a pet whenever, SMN can summoner an avatar whenever they feel but poor DRGs have to wait 2 hours if they're unlucky.

Generally if I'm in trouble I say "Oh sh*t!" and dismiss my ickly wyvern as I don't want to be waiting to get her back wyvern won't save your neck if you're in deep doodoo

Level 23 to be exact.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:08 pm

Sugami wrote:Captain obvious is a moron

I think a lot of DRGs will say SE have boned them sideways, as you guys have said having Call Wyvern a 2hr really does suck. BST can whip out a jug pet at any time (past 20 I think) or charm a pet whenever, SMN can summoner an avatar whenever they feel but poor DRGs have to wait 2 hours if they're unlucky.

Generally if I'm in trouble I say "Oh sh*t!" and dismiss my ickly wyvern as I don't want to be waiting to get her back wyvern won't save your neck if you're in deep doodoo

Unless they're casting Cure III on you on the cheap. I dunno, maybe it's a tradeoff... DRGs don't like to depend on their 2-hour to completely save them, yet no one else can have their 2-hour active however long they want as long as they're careful. And as a Warrior, my 2-hour has never Cure III'ed me. In fact, my 2-hour hardly ever saves my arse when I'm in trouble, given that it's totally dependant on actually hitting my target, and doesn't seem to work during Weapon Skills.

Oh well, I'm done trying to discuss this... I never wanted to fight with anyone here about it, just stating my opinion.

Speaking of 2 hour abilities though, wouldn't it be cool if BLMs got Chainspell? I mean, not great in party situations, but if you really needed to divert hate and try to take out a mob before they defeat party members, a BLM with Chainspell would be like unloading a fleet of cannons on them! Or if Chainspell had Manafont's ability as well... O.o that would be awesome!

Rakshasa · Post by **Rakshasa** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:54 pm

Josiejo wrote:All I'm saying is you're not alone, and not penalized to have another being with you, and therefore not soloing. Sorry if you think it's a bad thing to say, but it's far from inaccurate.

I think this is what started it. You started off saying things like "the way I see it" and "in my opinion," but you presented your opinion as fact in the end.

Josiejo wrote:Speaking of 2 hour abilities though, wouldn't it be cool if BLMs got Chainspell? I mean, not great in party situations, but if you really needed to divert hate and try to take out a mob before they defeat party members, a BLM with Chainspell would be like unloading a fleet of cannons on them! Or if Chainspell had Manafont's ability as well... O.o that would be awesome!

A lot of jobs would be broken if two two hours were given. {Hundred Fists} and {Mighty Strikes} anyone? Besides, BLMs wouldn't last long enough to get its full usage. That's usually why mages run and live while tanks stay to die honorably. At least that's how it usually works on Siren...

Batsu · Post by **Batsu** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:35 pm

I stay and die honorably. . . but secretly wish death to everyone else in my party when I do.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:30 am

Rakshasa wrote:
Josiejo wrote:All I'm saying is you're not alone, and not penalized to have another being with you, and therefore not soloing. Sorry if you think it's a bad thing to say, but it's far from inaccurate.
I think this is what started it. You started off saying things like "the way I see it" and "in my opinion," but you presented your opinion as fact in the end.

It is a fact. It is also my interpretation of that fact as it applies to the game, therefore my opinion. I knew most people would not see it that way, but I was providing a view of those facts that most people in the game do not share because they feel playing solo means without PC help. I don't believe that to be the case, but I'm not everyone.

Rakshasa wrote:
Josiejo wrote:Speaking of 2 hour abilities though, wouldn't it be cool if BLMs got Chainspell? I mean, not great in party situations, but if you really needed to divert hate and try to take out a mob before they defeat party members, a BLM with Chainspell would be like unloading a fleet of cannons on them! Or if Chainspell had Manafont's ability as well... O.o that would be awesome!
A lot of jobs would be broken if two two hours were given. {Hundred Fists} and {Mighty Strikes} anyone? Besides, BLMs wouldn't last long enough to get its full usage. That's usually why mages run and live while tanks stay to die honorably. At least that's how it usually works on Siren...

I just meant that it would be cool if Manafont's effects were 0 MP cost and drastically reduced recast time, not that they should have 2 separate Two-Hour abilities. The problem with Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes is that they have to hit to be effective. I've noticed more as a Warrior that missing a target is a big part of the fighting in this game, especially with 2H weapons and HTH. I've died after using Mighty Strikes just because I still missed my target after activating the 2HR. While Hundred Fists might help much like a "zerg-fest" in WoW PvP, I'd still probably see half of my attacks miss. Besides, Haste+ items + Haste (spell) lasts longer than Hundred Fists.

As far as BLMs lasting, I think Elemental Seal + Bind might help, and even Binding without it would slow a mob down. Subbing WHM could keep them cured, and status effect spells would help decrease the risk of being damaged normally every enemy turn. Still, I think that would be a great way for a mage to "save the day" when there aren't other options. I've also learned while being a Warrior the thrill of being the Hero and letting my party escape while I create a distraction. I'm sure not just melees/tanks are as selfless.

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:46 pm

Josiejo wrote:In fact, my 2-hour hardly ever saves my arse when I'm in trouble, given that it's totally dependant on actually hitting my target, and doesn't seem to work during Weapon Skills.

Ever tried Mighty Strikes with Sturmwind? Mucho damage I tell you that

Waef · Post by **Waef** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:11 am

Besides, Haste+ items + Haste (spell) lasts longer than Hundred Fists.

Yes, that's true, but generally items with Haste cost a crapload (Speed Belt comes to mind...10,000,000g). Also, it makes a VERY little difference, almost non-noticeable in some cases. Hundred Fists reduces the time between hits to next to nothing, once it gets built up (which usually takes a few hits). Haste just speeds up your attacks. If you had Haste+20%, you would probably still hit less times in the entire duration of Haste then you would if you used Hundred Fists.

Also, like others said, a Wyvern is a Dragoon's 2hour, and all it does is summon a pet. Just like Summoner and Beastmaster, except they don't have to use their 2hours to summon a pet. Also, it's YOUR pet, you basically control when it does special abilites, when it attacks, and when it leaves. I know I am not going to change your view, but it is still soloing. It is completely different than being in a party and killing something.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:55 am

Sugami wrote:
Josiejo wrote:In fact, my 2-hour hardly ever saves my arse when I'm in trouble, given that it's totally dependant on actually hitting my target, and doesn't seem to work during Weapon Skills.
Ever tried Mighty Strikes with Sturmwind? Mucho damage I tell you that

You have to have TP for that, and you don't always have it when you're in trouble (and also, WS can miss). But I'll have to try that sometime just to see how it is. Frankly, I'm kinda disappointed with Sturmwind... doesn't seem to be as powerful as I thought it would be. Same goes for Frostbite. Here's hoping the Great Katana WS are better!

Post by **Nivez** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:14 am

add sneak attack to Sturmwind and ill guarentee youl out damage any ranger or thief on WS up to like lvl 50

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:19 am

{Hmmm.} I wonder why Sturmwind was weaker on Yhoator Mandragoras than Iron Tempest? I didn't even try Shield Break, although it's more for lowering Defense than dishing out damage. When I was leveling Great Sword, Power Slash was the clear choice to use... far outdamaged Frostbite, and would still fit into a Distortion chain.

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:57 am

Josiejo wrote:{Hmmm.} I wonder why Sturmwind was weaker on Yhoator Mandragoras than Iron Tempest? I didn't even try Shield Break, although it's more for lowering Defense than dishing out damage. When I was leveling Great Sword, Power Slash was the clear choice to use... far outdamaged Frostbite, and would still fit into a Distortion chain.

What was your TP at during each weapon skill? Some skills have different multipliers based on the amount of TP you have. Also, Sturmwind is a 2 attack WS. (Iron tempest is 1 attack) If one of the attacks of the WS misses you do noticeably less damage.

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:59 am

Link to my other WS thread.

viewtopic.php?t=1651

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:05 pm

Another funny image!

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:54 pm

pfft, that's impossible.

he's a bard after all...

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:50 pm

Prrsha wrote:
Josiejo wrote:{Hmmm.} I wonder why Sturmwind was weaker on Yhoator Mandragoras than Iron Tempest? I didn't even try Shield Break, although it's more for lowering Defense than dishing out damage. When I was leveling Great Sword, Power Slash was the clear choice to use... far outdamaged Frostbite, and would still fit into a Distortion chain.
What was your TP at during each weapon skill? Some skills have different multipliers based on the amount of TP you have. Also, Sturmwind is a 2 attack WS. (Iron tempest is 1 attack) If one of the attacks of the WS misses you do noticeably less damage.

Prrsha is correct ^^ Against ITs sturmwind doesn't have a high chance of hitting both times without loads of acc bonuses (which you don't really get at 25-32). However a while back I was hunting elementals in highlands, came across Tremor Ram and engaged. As a 30 WAR/THF at the time Tremor can be a pain and usually take off at least half my life but I had TP from previous battles and decided to use Mighty Strikes, did little over 400 damage with sturmwind, which was nice

Liohs · Post by **Liohs** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:17 pm

your wyvren can tank for you SOME TIMES on EP or less mob IF you can get the hate on it easyest way; attack then use super jump and run around behind alot of DRG/thf do this so thay can SA/TA solo AND It is solo the game counts it as solo buy the XP you get
Penta does INSANE dmg if used right the frist two jumps as well
wheeling thrust is great to if used right then theres Impluse Drive at high lvl

at low lvl yes DRG is pretty much a war with jump with out a pet but its the Pet the makes the job i think it needs to be made a 15min rechage and we need a real 2hr imo look at BST charm isnt a 2hr what is the bST 2hr any way?

any way if you need some tips on playing DRG ask me Firemyst or Kitkat
all of us are 60+ ^^

Kahvi · Post by **Kahvi** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:42 am

THe BST 2hr makes the monster "More Tame" and has the charm last longer

kittykitty · Post by **kittykitty** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:08 pm

doesnt BST 2hr also make the monster stronger?

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:32 am

kittykitty wrote:doesnt BST 2hr also make the monster stronger?

I *think* it allows you to charm a stronger monster then you normally could. But then again I am not a BST so I'm not sure.

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:39 am

According to the game, it lets you extend your charm, and allows the pet to be stronger. So basically, in an emergency, or just for fun, you can go and charm an IT and wreak havoc amongst everything in sight....

kittykitty · Post by **kittykitty** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:42 pm

That sounds like fun

It's also probably one of the more useful ones too. Jobs have serious problems with useless 2 hrs. I mean my thf 2hr is almost useless in a party situation and only useful when Im running, when I dont have flee...

Ephi · Post by **Ephi** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:44 pm

THF 2hr can help me solo... fought an Ooze on the barge in carpenters landing... i solo'd it and when my hp got too low i 2hr'd and spammed my ranged (Bloody Bolts u see)

Neoshinobi · Post by **Neoshinobi** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:49 pm

Ephi wrote:THF 2hr can help me solo... fought an Ooze on the barge in carpenters landing... i solo'd it and when my hp got too low i 2hr'd and spammed my ranged (Bloody Bolts u see)

Of course its helpful to solo, Dodge all melee attacks can do wonders

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:14 am

The BST 2hr is used when you have a pet so it doesn't allow you to charm a tougher mob. However if you manage to charm a T or higher it will make the mob tougher and allow the charm to last the full 30mins, this works the same or EMs and lower.

An EM pet against another EM of same type will be a close match, with Familiar your pet will easily win.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:22 pm

kittykitty wrote:That sounds like fun It's also probably one of the more useful ones too. Jobs have serious problems with useless 2 hrs. I mean my thf 2hr is almost useless in a party situation and only useful when Im running, when I dont have flee...

At least {Perfect Dodge} guarantees you'll live longer vs. a melee enemy (excluding HP-reducing status effects). {Mighty Strikes} is really not that great for Warriors, especially for those who prefer the two-handed weapons. Pretty much the only time it is really effective is when you have TP available for weapon skills, assuming you don't miss.

Unfortunately, missing happens more than I thought it would before I really started playing WAR.

However, I really love the Samurai 2hr.

Once I was aggroed by 4 Orcs in Ghelsba, 3 of them Decent Challenges. I knew I was going to die, but I had my 2hr ready and decided to get some exp to buffer the loss. I ended up killing 3 of them and almost the 4th because of that ability and Tachi: Enpi. ^^ If I could've evaded or parried one more attack, I could've taken that whole group out, but it was still fun just because I felt more in contol over the focus of my 2hr, unlike {Mighty Strikes} where you sit helplessly hoping you don't miss your target.

Pyrexia · Post by **Pyrexia** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:37 pm

I <3 my EES and Manafont.

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:11 pm

When I'm levelling my ninja in the dunes, I make it a point to camp at the outpost, 2hr first thing in the battle, hp , then come back for retribution ^^;