Need help on Provoke and Charisma
- Dukuji
- Mad Cat
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Need help on Provoke and Charisma
Consider these two theories:
(a) Provoke + more CHR = a more potent provoke
or
(b) Provoke + any amount of CHR = the same provoke
{Hmmm}
Well ... I've been hearing talk about these two little theories and I'm looking for any help that people can give me. Now, SE said in an interview that CHR doesn't affect enmity but CHR does effect certain (which they would not say) skills. I'm starting to believe that theory B is true. I’ve been told that the more CHR you have the “longer” (if you will) your provoke will last. Can anybody provide me with some insight? Links would be great.
Edit: spelling error
(a) Provoke + more CHR = a more potent provoke
or
(b) Provoke + any amount of CHR = the same provoke
{Hmmm}
Well ... I've been hearing talk about these two little theories and I'm looking for any help that people can give me. Now, SE said in an interview that CHR doesn't affect enmity but CHR does effect certain (which they would not say) skills. I'm starting to believe that theory B is true. I’ve been told that the more CHR you have the “longer” (if you will) your provoke will last. Can anybody provide me with some insight? Links would be great.
Edit: spelling error
Last edited by Dukuji on Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
[url=http://mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Dukuji]'Kuji[/url]; The [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Ninja[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Cat[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] -------|m >^-^< m|------- Seeker of Oblivion
- kittykitty
- Kitten
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I cant give a link but I decided to test the theory, we had a Hume warrior wear 2 opal rings, and another Hume warrior wear none. They were the same level and we made them provoke at the same time too see what provoke was more effective. The one who had the two opal rings had the better provoke more often than not, even if he did provoke a short amount of time before the other. Thats just what my test found but we were bored and decided to try it and that what we discovered.
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- Batsu
- Feral Cat
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CHR does not effect Enmity, its already been proven. However, CHR does effect the "Killer" effects. The higher your CHR is the higher the chance is that the enemy of that type will be intimidated. The reason Koenig/Kaiser for PLD and WAR has so much +CHR is because there are earrings that give the "Killer" effects.
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Chi - Level 60 Undead Rogue - Member of Unison - [Rank 9] Centurion ~ 12,695 Honorable Kills - 3 Dishonorable Kills
[Retired]
Batsu - Level 60 Elvaan Paladin - Level 56 Samurai
- kittykitty
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I personally wouldn't spec CHR just for Provoke. Most of the time if you have Provoke in party situations you're either a) a main tank or b) a backup tank. Either way, Provoke will work when you need it to, as long as you start early and Provoke often. I always seem to have a main and backup tank in my parties and work out Provokes so one of us is doing it every 15 seconds or so. I prefer not to be the main tank, but I don't mind either way. I've been able to gain aggro just swinging my Great Sword after a pull, so I'll wait to Provoke. Anyway, I'd rather have AGI+ and DEX+ items before CHR+.
[img]http://www.johnnysubway.com/~josiejo/images/josiejoSig.png[/img]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
The amount of CHR you have has no effect on how strong your provoke is, in the interview SE has said that CHR has an effect on some of the damage from WS which is true since some WS have CHR has their damage modifer. CHR also determinds how well you can charm a monster with bst (although chr is useless for bst most of the time heh).
- Dukuji
- Mad Cat
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Well, two things
(1) I will not be getting CHR items. I will stop eating items that give CHR down. (-10)
(2) Here is that interview. Read carefully.
"Q: Does charisma affect hate/enmity(aggro)? Or is it only for Bard songs and Beastmaster charms?
A:The charisma attribute score does not affect hate or enmity(aggro). It does, however, affect how a bard`s songs and a beastmaster`s charm ability are not only used but also resisted. There are also weapon skills that are greatly affected by charisma."
Okay, here is what we do know from this intereview.
(a) Having more CHR does not increase hate/enmity. This means that a WHM who has more CHR will not draw more hate. A DRK with less CHR will not draw less hate. More CHR does not equal more enmity.
(b) CHR effects Bard's songs and BST charm. (This is well known)
(c) CHR greatly effects certain WSs.
(d) Because the question was not worded, "What all does CHR do?" we have to assume that there could be more that CHR does. This was a response to what CHR does to enmity (directly) and to a few BRD/BST skills. Nowhere in here does he/she mention that these are the only things CHR does. The interviewer did not ask about how it effects Provoke (please note, provoke is not the same as enmity).
After reading this I still think there could be more CHR does. Yes, having more CHR will not increase enmity (in otherwords 2 CHR does not = 1 enmity, or something). This interview makes no mention of of what affect CHR has on Job Ablities outside BST.
Another thing, since when has SE ever told us everything we need to know about something?
(BTW, I am a scinetist by training, and right now I'm just trying to find out all I can on this subject)
(1) I will not be getting CHR items. I will stop eating items that give CHR down. (-10)
(2) Here is that interview. Read carefully.
"Q: Does charisma affect hate/enmity(aggro)? Or is it only for Bard songs and Beastmaster charms?
A:The charisma attribute score does not affect hate or enmity(aggro). It does, however, affect how a bard`s songs and a beastmaster`s charm ability are not only used but also resisted. There are also weapon skills that are greatly affected by charisma."
Okay, here is what we do know from this intereview.
(a) Having more CHR does not increase hate/enmity. This means that a WHM who has more CHR will not draw more hate. A DRK with less CHR will not draw less hate. More CHR does not equal more enmity.
(b) CHR effects Bard's songs and BST charm. (This is well known)
(c) CHR greatly effects certain WSs.
(d) Because the question was not worded, "What all does CHR do?" we have to assume that there could be more that CHR does. This was a response to what CHR does to enmity (directly) and to a few BRD/BST skills. Nowhere in here does he/she mention that these are the only things CHR does. The interviewer did not ask about how it effects Provoke (please note, provoke is not the same as enmity).
After reading this I still think there could be more CHR does. Yes, having more CHR will not increase enmity (in otherwords 2 CHR does not = 1 enmity, or something). This interview makes no mention of of what affect CHR has on Job Ablities outside BST.
Another thing, since when has SE ever told us everything we need to know about something?
(BTW, I am a scinetist by training, and right now I'm just trying to find out all I can on this subject)
[url=http://mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Dukuji]'Kuji[/url]; The [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Ninja[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Cat[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] -------|m >^-^< m|------- Seeker of Oblivion
CHR does not effect provoke. It does effect killer effects as Batsu said, so it can be useful for PLD, but it is also useful for BSTs. Not only does it effect the effectiveness of their charm, but it also effects how often their "Killer" traits will activate. Plus, about the thing with the Opal rings, it just happened the way it did by chance. The only "true" way to tell is to have both voke and EXACTLY the same time.
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Currently leveling: Bard
Maybe the real way to test is to have the person with CHR+ Provoke first without attacking and see if the other can Provoke off of them. If CHR+ really helps, the other shouldn't be able to get aggro.
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[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
- Karou Ariyen
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Take my word coming from a Warrior Main, CHR doesnt increase the strength of Provoke, Ive stack craploads of CHR before and i can still have provoke do crap in the line of hate pulling becuase provoke pulls hate, to hold hate you need enmity, and its already been established in this thread CHR dont Effect Enmity.
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If Provoke "pulled" hate, then you'd always get attention from using it. Provoke just boosts your conceptual aggro meter. If you don't have enough aggro + Provoke to get a mob's attention, you won't get it back until you gain more aggro than the one who currently has the most. I'm sure you've noticed this, Karou.
So, assuming you're testing this theory on a passive creature with two people of the same race/jobs/levels/equipment (excluding the CHR+ stats), the person with CHR+ would Provoke first, no attacking. Then the second person would Provoke say 1 second later. If CHR+ really helps, then the second person will not be attacked because they were unable to reach a higher level of aggro than the first provoker. If CHR+ doesn't matter, then the second person will get attacked, being the most recent threat at the highest current aggro level.
So, assuming you're testing this theory on a passive creature with two people of the same race/jobs/levels/equipment (excluding the CHR+ stats), the person with CHR+ would Provoke first, no attacking. Then the second person would Provoke say 1 second later. If CHR+ really helps, then the second person will not be attacked because they were unable to reach a higher level of aggro than the first provoker. If CHR+ doesn't matter, then the second person will get attacked, being the most recent threat at the highest current aggro level.
[img]http://www.johnnysubway.com/~josiejo/images/josiejoSig.png[/img]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Josiejo][b]Josiejo[/b][/url]
NPC Friend: Jajuju (Tarutaru Female Healer)
[b]Kitty Alts[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Sasamii]Sasamii[/url]
[b]Elvaan[/b]
[url=http://www.mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Ryadbraman]Ryadbraman[/url]
- Dukuji
- Mad Cat
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This is known Waef, the question here is not "Does CHR effect enmity?" it is "Does CHR effect Provoke?"Waef wrote:CHR doesn't effect enmity. End of story.
And so far I can't find enough evidence, so I must (at this time) fail to reject the null. The null being "CHR does not effect Provoke."
[url=http://mithrapride.org/members/guildmember.cgi?function=prof&name=Dukuji]'Kuji[/url]; The [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Ninja[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] [color=green][b]{[/b][/color]Cat[color=red][b]}[/b][/color] -------|m >^-^< m|------- Seeker of Oblivion
Re: Need help on Provoke and Charisma
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Re: Need help on Provoke and Charisma
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Re: Need help on Provoke and Charisma
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XVIIТишиРабоСмерwwwiзолоAlbeНадоСейдКлимJungJeanпублDoroПервElecZalmИсидALL4заблOZONГубапозо
WillZoneЗабыИШурчастпоряРеймGatsAdioFallFallбюджAlekСавиДолгсовеБрешSusaSuzaДрунЧеркКолыфизи
переМаксЕрмоВыгоГрадМураАнтрMichГумбAltaJourСоесчастZoneZoneJohnИспоЛапуSupeБодэЗверIntrHere
«СоюЕвгеToniYellMoraXVIIMuchBlacHookAnneдейспришБайрВариGypsZoneАбовэтниРунгБороZoneStraОноп
ДружлатуалтаPCIeхороndasKronSospScouCorePinnпалоMist3966ZENIWindTeenSUBAAUTOCITRметаClinFLAC
SporинстигруавтодемоNickтексMicrWindАртиSoveНестDeLoMexxупакАфанRealАудиSandСухоСтарЛитРВоск
JeweодежэтикдругРозеClauаппа(МИФРашеKindVien2904НегрГусьMausМГориндиStanСтарThemMikeCatwФуру
FIFAКураХаткавтообъеDecaСироВороавтоСолоУльяПокрперсЧехоВороГрозстерЛипсWillСпирИллюPCIePCIe
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