A rant about haste
A rant about haste
My top two jobs, white mage and red mage, are both blessed/cursed with the spell of Haste. Now Haste is a wonderful spell. It can significantly speed up your attack rate for one thing, and it protects you from Slow (since air-based Haste is stronger than earth-based Slow). It comes at a price though: 40mp. So it needs to be used wisely.
Last night, I was in an experience points party as a red mage. Since I was the only mage, I used a white mage subjob (since we'd be fighting crabs and crawlers and barwatera, poisona and curaga would be sorely missed otherwise). This meant, subjob-wise, no black mage Conserve MP or summoner Auto-Refresh... so my 555mp had only Refresh and a Dark Staff for recovery (and of course, Convert every 10 minutes). If I ran out of mp, no one could step in to help with curing and such, a fact that was always on my mind.
At first, the ninja wanted Haste. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem. I was a little concerned that I wouldn't be able to afford it. However, ninja have a hard enough time keeping hate as it is, so anything I could do to make this easier for a ninja was a good thing. And by good thing, I mean, I'd rather have the monster eat ninja shadows than develop a penchant for mithra red mage flesh.
After working out a good routine, I was able to keep the ninja hasted (is that even a word?).
But then the dark knight chimes in...
Ah, dark knights... there is an eternal confilct between dark knights and red mages. Usually it's over Refresh (which he demanded too... fortunately, I was able to accomodate him since there weren't any other mages).
But this dark knight was upset because he wanted Haste too.
And that's where I get confused: Damage dealers insisting on Haste, especially when their tank is a ninja.
Aside the fact that I was the only mage, on limited mp, and I was already spending 40mp to keep the ninja hasted (there's that word again), but he wanted me to spend another 40mp so he could deal damage faster? And by dealing damage faster, he would get more hate... and the monster would attack him more, meaning I'd have to cure him more, wasting more mp, and risking my life by getting hate myself from curing so much...
There's nothing but pain in hasting a damage dealer.
Even if we all live through it, I'd still have to spend more time recovering, ruining experience points chains in the process. Ultimately, I feel it's a very bad choice.
So, I had to tell him, "Sorry." I hate having to be the one to say no.
Then later, since other parties were taking up all the crabs and crawlers, we fought some bark spiders instead (can you guess which dungeon I was in, now? ).
Now, when I said Haste protects against Slow, I said nothing about Slowga. Slowga is actually a stronger spell effect than Haste, in the same way that Diaga is stronger than Bio. Not only does Slowga remove your Haste effect, but if you cast Haste again to remove the Slow effect, it won't work. Erase would work, but I couldn't cast that as a 55 rdm/whm... I still need 11 levels yet
Besides, I've discovered this from fighting spiders earlier. Their spider web attack renders Haste, cast before or after, useless. Only a summoner with Hastega could help, and we didn't have one.
So it was frustrating when the ninja didn't believe any of this and insisted I keep casting Haste even though I explained it was completely pointless to.
I also hate it when people who've never played my jobs act like they know more about my spells than I do.
So ends my rant. Thank you for listening.
Last night, I was in an experience points party as a red mage. Since I was the only mage, I used a white mage subjob (since we'd be fighting crabs and crawlers and barwatera, poisona and curaga would be sorely missed otherwise). This meant, subjob-wise, no black mage Conserve MP or summoner Auto-Refresh... so my 555mp had only Refresh and a Dark Staff for recovery (and of course, Convert every 10 minutes). If I ran out of mp, no one could step in to help with curing and such, a fact that was always on my mind.
At first, the ninja wanted Haste. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem. I was a little concerned that I wouldn't be able to afford it. However, ninja have a hard enough time keeping hate as it is, so anything I could do to make this easier for a ninja was a good thing. And by good thing, I mean, I'd rather have the monster eat ninja shadows than develop a penchant for mithra red mage flesh.
After working out a good routine, I was able to keep the ninja hasted (is that even a word?).
But then the dark knight chimes in...
Ah, dark knights... there is an eternal confilct between dark knights and red mages. Usually it's over Refresh (which he demanded too... fortunately, I was able to accomodate him since there weren't any other mages).
But this dark knight was upset because he wanted Haste too.
And that's where I get confused: Damage dealers insisting on Haste, especially when their tank is a ninja.
Aside the fact that I was the only mage, on limited mp, and I was already spending 40mp to keep the ninja hasted (there's that word again), but he wanted me to spend another 40mp so he could deal damage faster? And by dealing damage faster, he would get more hate... and the monster would attack him more, meaning I'd have to cure him more, wasting more mp, and risking my life by getting hate myself from curing so much...
There's nothing but pain in hasting a damage dealer.
Even if we all live through it, I'd still have to spend more time recovering, ruining experience points chains in the process. Ultimately, I feel it's a very bad choice.
So, I had to tell him, "Sorry." I hate having to be the one to say no.
Then later, since other parties were taking up all the crabs and crawlers, we fought some bark spiders instead (can you guess which dungeon I was in, now? ).
Now, when I said Haste protects against Slow, I said nothing about Slowga. Slowga is actually a stronger spell effect than Haste, in the same way that Diaga is stronger than Bio. Not only does Slowga remove your Haste effect, but if you cast Haste again to remove the Slow effect, it won't work. Erase would work, but I couldn't cast that as a 55 rdm/whm... I still need 11 levels yet
Besides, I've discovered this from fighting spiders earlier. Their spider web attack renders Haste, cast before or after, useless. Only a summoner with Hastega could help, and we didn't have one.
So it was frustrating when the ninja didn't believe any of this and insisted I keep casting Haste even though I explained it was completely pointless to.
I also hate it when people who've never played my jobs act like they know more about my spells than I do.
So ends my rant. Thank you for listening.
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Rise of Zilart Completed
Chains of Promathia Completed
Treasures of Aht Urghan Rank 2
heh, i know your pain, when i play whm there is only one job that i consider absoutly a must in hasting. the tank, weather it be nin or pld, thier hate holding abilities goes up considerbly with haste (being a pld, i know this from experience). all other jobs are secondary, to be honest, if im hasting one of the DD's then its because i have an abundance of MP. since im casting soo much stuff already. lasting to chain 4-5 is my goal, and wasting MP on haste makes us hit chain 3 max... so this is how i think, tone down haste, to increase exp chains. at where i am, the mele seem to understand this concept, hopefully in the future yours will as well ;p
Well, there could be an argument for us theives.
Often, we Chain with a ranger, keeping us at a loss for tp.
Now, where do you stand on risking a bit of hate control for even more hate control than originally. I'd really like to hear a mage's opinion on this.
Often, we Chain with a ranger, keeping us at a loss for tp.
Now, where do you stand on risking a bit of hate control for even more hate control than originally. I'd really like to hear a mage's opinion on this.
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My advice is once you hit 58 rdm try subbing bard. Now a lot of people will tell you that bard as a subjob sucks because you can only hold one song at a time and what's the point of having level 30 songs at level 60. You should ignore them because you're only going to ever sing 4 songs, none of which can be gimped or resisted.
Mage's Ballad (50Rdm/25Brd) - Stacks with Refresh so all mage's gain 4mp/3ticks. Essentially gives everyone a smn's Auto-Refresh ability. Also makes up for the mp you'll lose for subbing bard.
Advancing March (58Rdm/29Brd) - Haste for all melee. Granted it's not as fast as Victory March (60Brd) but it should make the melee's happy and save you or the whm 40mp per meleer.
Hunter's Prelude (62Rdm/31Brd) - If you've got a Ranger in your party, you'll be their new best friend.
Magic Finale (66Rdm/33Brd) - Like Dispel it will automatically stick but it'll save you 25mp.
There are of course a few ways this will hurt you. You'll have lower INT and MND so it might be difficult to make some of your enfeebling spells stick. This problem should solve itself when you put on your Warlock's Tabard at level 58 (+15 enfeebling magic).
You'll lose out on abilities like Conserve MP and Elemental or Divine Seal and spells like Drain, Aspir, Shock and Curaga.
Advancing March is a weaker spell than Haste so it won't help you with your Bark Spider Problem.
Mage's Ballad (50Rdm/25Brd) - Stacks with Refresh so all mage's gain 4mp/3ticks. Essentially gives everyone a smn's Auto-Refresh ability. Also makes up for the mp you'll lose for subbing bard.
Advancing March (58Rdm/29Brd) - Haste for all melee. Granted it's not as fast as Victory March (60Brd) but it should make the melee's happy and save you or the whm 40mp per meleer.
Hunter's Prelude (62Rdm/31Brd) - If you've got a Ranger in your party, you'll be their new best friend.
Magic Finale (66Rdm/33Brd) - Like Dispel it will automatically stick but it'll save you 25mp.
There are of course a few ways this will hurt you. You'll have lower INT and MND so it might be difficult to make some of your enfeebling spells stick. This problem should solve itself when you put on your Warlock's Tabard at level 58 (+15 enfeebling magic).
You'll lose out on abilities like Conserve MP and Elemental or Divine Seal and spells like Drain, Aspir, Shock and Curaga.
Advancing March is a weaker spell than Haste so it won't help you with your Bark Spider Problem.
75 rdm
62 cor, 50 blm, 38 whm
37 pld, 37 rng, 37 nin, 37 brd, 37 smn, 37 drk
62 cor, 50 blm, 38 whm
37 pld, 37 rng, 37 nin, 37 brd, 37 smn, 37 drk
- Karou Ariyen
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Tell me about it, I dont ask for haste unless im the main tank, and then in that case i need Regen, but rdms haste me all the time w/ /whm
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Generally, I keep Haste on only person. If the red mage wants to keep a different melee hasted too, that's great. Doing two or more myself sucks MP, time, and after a few hours of partying I start forgetting who I hasted last.
As for which melee, ninja tanks get priority if we have one. Otherwise, a melee with a slow weapon so they'll gain TP faster.
And I've never liked exp'ing on spiders. Besides the Spider Web, I swear they save Sickle Slash to use right when the tank is at 2/3 HP, and I'm in the middle of casting Haste or Regen.
As for which melee, ninja tanks get priority if we have one. Otherwise, a melee with a slow weapon so they'll gain TP faster.
And I've never liked exp'ing on spiders. Besides the Spider Web, I swear they save Sickle Slash to use right when the tank is at 2/3 HP, and I'm in the middle of casting Haste or Regen.
Heh, I never *demand* a Haste from any WHM/RDM in parties I asisst. Being a DRK I'm used to the 490-520 delay now, and I figure that Haste doesnt really help much overall anyway.. makes the delay about.. 380-420? roughly. Still slow as hell. Blah.
I usually poke the RDM or BRD for a Refresh though.. damn Absorb spells take their toll. I find keeping my MP ready more important then the speed of my attacks, since Drain/Aspir are lifelines for the DRK.
I usually poke the RDM or BRD for a Refresh though.. damn Absorb spells take their toll. I find keeping my MP ready more important then the speed of my attacks, since Drain/Aspir are lifelines for the DRK.
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- Neoshinobi
- Mad Cat
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In my time playing it seems after {Red Mage}s get {Refresh}theres nothing but macro spamming "REFRESH PLZ!!!!@1!!" and I'm getting tired of it...
As for {Haste} I find it beneficial to me as a {Thief} seeing as how most of the time I'm struggling to gain TP, and depending on the {Skillchain} buddy (alla {Ranger} or {Samurai}) its like they go off every second while I'm not even half way to 100% >_<
As for {Haste} I find it beneficial to me as a {Thief} seeing as how most of the time I'm struggling to gain TP, and depending on the {Skillchain} buddy (alla {Ranger} or {Samurai}) its like they go off every second while I'm not even half way to 100% >_<
- Shirai
- Crazy Dutch Cat
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As for haste I usually have a simple routine,
the tank always gets it, the rest only if asked and MP permits and only on slow DD's.
If a rng, mnk or war/nin asks for it, no go.
Too much hate.
mostly I try to cooperate with the RDM when it comes to Hasting.
(Yeah, Hasted and hasting are words and we invented it )
If they keep naggin you about it tell them that if they want longer chains they will have to do without.
Even a Paladin has a hard time keeping hate when those DD's go all out.
Next to that you can refuse parties when you have to play the only mage.
I know, the game is about fun, but if you have nobody to help you heal/buff and ppl keep nagging you, it's no fun.
the tank always gets it, the rest only if asked and MP permits and only on slow DD's.
If a rng, mnk or war/nin asks for it, no go.
Too much hate.
mostly I try to cooperate with the RDM when it comes to Hasting.
(Yeah, Hasted and hasting are words and we invented it )
If they keep naggin you about it tell them that if they want longer chains they will have to do without.
Even a Paladin has a hard time keeping hate when those DD's go all out.
Next to that you can refuse parties when you have to play the only mage.
I know, the game is about fun, but if you have nobody to help you heal/buff and ppl keep nagging you, it's no fun.
When I played my WHM, I usually had 3 Haste targets: tank, myself and the RDM. {Red Mage} + {Fast Cast} + {Haste} = {Yes, please.} The tank hasted for obvious reasons, and myself because I always melee, and also less downtime for Cure I spamming. The RDM keeps me refreshed, and never really seem to notice the whopping MP hole those Hastes leave.
But, that's at level 42... probably different when you get to higher levels.
But, that's at level 42... probably different when you get to higher levels.
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It is much like that. When people have 20K or 30K to next level, they get a little impatient and think that if they chime in it'll make it go faster. As us RDMs in Mithra Pride have discussed, it's quite the opposite. =PYukira wrote:Uuh....is it always like that at higher levels? People demanding stuff and telling you how to do your job? Doesn't sound very nice...
Again, it seems all of our RDM philosophies are very similar, based mostly on the amount of MP we have. At my current level I set aside a definite 120 MP to use for Refreshes and Hastes (including my own). This changes with the party, but it's usually what it works out to be. The rest I use for all my enfeebles at the beginning of fights and the occasional nuke. The best party I've had, though, is when the only mages were a BRD/WHM and myself. NIN tank, three RNGs... you do the math. I don't think the BRD healed much and I was great on MP.
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You can't stop the Rak. ^^
-Rakshasa
You can't stop the Rak. ^^
-Rakshasa
- Shirai
- Crazy Dutch Cat
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As a matter of fact yes,Yukira wrote:Uuh....is it always like that at higher levels? People demanding stuff and telling you how to do your job? Doesn't sound very nice...
some people do try to tell you how to do your job,
even if you have done your job all those lvls get all chain#5's and actually fight non stop.
Frankly speaking, most people that tell me how to do my job are people that have their main job as high as I have my main.
People I party with that actually have a 70/75 job however...
I never hear them, or they tell me I'm doing a good job, it's funny.
In time I learned to just stay friendly and do whatever I always do.
If they're not satisfied with the job I'm doing, hell let them replace me.
Ah the haste delimma..
Simple solution...
A, Tell them to play their class and you play yours. If they would like to tell you how to play yours then they need to switch jobs.
B, Nin gets haste....nin always gets haste... As for my playstyle, there are times that the DPS gets haste, if the party is good and I have the mp..but the NIN holding aggro is first. DRK..if they are lucky enough to be grouped with me...is never getting haste, it only gives them aggro..and cost's me a ton of mp trying to keep their worthless tail alive.
Simple rule...an efficient party yields more exp gain and more enjoyment for all, then one person squeezing out a few more dps for their own personal glory which costs the group time.
Simple solution...
A, Tell them to play their class and you play yours. If they would like to tell you how to play yours then they need to switch jobs.
B, Nin gets haste....nin always gets haste... As for my playstyle, there are times that the DPS gets haste, if the party is good and I have the mp..but the NIN holding aggro is first. DRK..if they are lucky enough to be grouped with me...is never getting haste, it only gives them aggro..and cost's me a ton of mp trying to keep their worthless tail alive.
Simple rule...an efficient party yields more exp gain and more enjoyment for all, then one person squeezing out a few more dps for their own personal glory which costs the group time.
There's the key in a nutshell. Hope you all saw that. It's my philosophy and if nothing else people will remember you for being friendly.Shirai wrote:In time I learned to just stay friendly and do whatever I always do.
If they're not satisfied with the job I'm doing, hell let them replace me.
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You can't stop the Rak. ^^
-Rakshasa
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- Karou Ariyen
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i just want to let you all know, i DO NOT beg for regen or haste or what the not, the whm or rdm knows that a tank needs both, specially war/nin with the 30 second recast, regen is needed. if the whm or rdm are too lazy to haste or regen me as main tank, i still dont tell them too, becuase if i die, its becuase they wernt helping the tank out
so if you dont regen or haste me dont expect me to ask you to, becuase i really could care less.
so if you dont regen or haste me dont expect me to ask you to, becuase i really could care less.
Warrior 81/Ninja 37 | Samurai 85/Warrior 40 | Puppetmaster 76/Warrior 37 | Dancer 41/Ninja 16
Solo WS=Raging Rush 2282 vs Boreal Hound | Salaheem's Sentinal's <> SECOND LIEUTENANT
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I don't think I want haste now... lol. I have enough problems with ppl yelling at me for Erase when i'm in the middle of a cure or something. The person yelling at me is usually a mage that has a slow effect <.<
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57 WHM; 32 BLM; 30 MNK; 20 SMN; 15 WAR; 11 BRD; 07 RDM; 03 DRG
Windurst Rank: 5; Cooking Rank: Journeyman
Genkai: 1(X) 2(X) 3 ( ) 4 ( ) 5 ( )
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- Eviticus
- 'Insignificant Adventurer'
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Being a dragoon, I carry relatively high delay weaponry. (I go for lance types rather then halberd types, so it's higher still.) But pretty much all I think I'd ever want besides the ever present shell and protect is a regen every now and then. Ya know, seeing as I ususally end up being the SATA buddy voking in the beginning. Or when I have to spirit link.
But yeah, I do a hefty amount of damage as it is. No need to haste the high end DD's unless you A: Have the MP and B: Have a paladin tank...
But yeah, I do a hefty amount of damage as it is. No need to haste the high end DD's unless you A: Have the MP and B: Have a paladin tank...
In the end, I'm just talking out of my ass. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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[b]Rank 10 Bastok. Rank 2 Sandy.[/b] Pup 75, Drg 72, Brd 71, Thf 37, War 39, Sam 38, Blm 40, Rdm 22, Whm 40, Mnk 37, Nin 14, Pld 38, Bst 15, Drk 30, Smn 15, Blu 19, Rng 13, Dnc 24, Cor 11.
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[b]Rank 10 Bastok. Rank 2 Sandy.[/b] Pup 75, Drg 72, Brd 71, Thf 37, War 39, Sam 38, Blm 40, Rdm 22, Whm 40, Mnk 37, Nin 14, Pld 38, Bst 15, Drk 30, Smn 15, Blu 19, Rng 13, Dnc 24, Cor 11.
Paragon of Dragoon Excellence.
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[quote="Keavy"]Evi still winnarz.[/quote]
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Personally being the sexy monk i am, i don't need haste, yeah it helps and all but i won't ask for it. Tanks already have a hard time keeping hate off me (nin nin nin woosh) <-- tip as to what kind of tank =P but yeah haste + mnk + nin tank = 1 dead mnk + party laughing at tank for sucking ^.^
But the thief thing i can go with, well unless we have triple attack then we don't really need it
But the thief thing i can go with, well unless we have triple attack then we don't really need it
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