The things I do for gil.

[Neoshinobi]

People constantly look for White Mage handouts because thats what you are, a support job, your job is to support the team.

You end up dying, but your party makes it alive. But you don't mind. After all, it's your "job." The guide says you should do this. Your party will regard you as a hero, and life will be better...

And for your selfless act, you would think that at the very least your party would try to even look for a raise... but instead, they all go, "Well... gotta go... my toes are cold... {Disbanding Party.}" And leave you for dead.

Yep, life sure is better after that

Why I do believe the 'guide' even says its a white mages job to support with aforementioned spells.

Why the 'guide' even mentions lotting as something everybody does...just where are you getting this information from?

While a tank's call-to-action comes up from time-to-time in a dangerous area, white mages are constantly bombarded with requests from everyone looking for a handout.

If its a warriors job is to "take one for the team" then its also a White Mages job to cast all the spells they can to make sure it stays like that, then again half those spells you have are something meant for other party members, you didn't get raise spells for yourself now did you? What about teleport spells? Did you really go through all the trouble and time just to use them for yourself?

If you wanted a plumber to go to your house in the middle of the night in an emergency, you won't get that kind of service cheap

Well from what you said earlier you give handouts half the time, even when your busy, as you said giving a raise 2 to a whole party including a person you partied with before who was an ass for free, then wouldn't you give out a teleport for free?

Theres a difference between a plumber and your, for one your going the pay the plumber no matter what time he/she comes out....everytime...Now as from what you said you usually give out handouts, plumbers don't...the whole idea you put up of giving out handouts 24/7 as much as you can handle...then suddenly saying "oh a teleport, that'll cost you, ya know even tho i just got through helping half the server for free with nothing to show for it other than a 'thank you now go away'."

[Josiejo]

I guess you're right C-leaf. I know it's not fun being a teletaxi sometimes, and even moreso when you're not trying to be one. And I know part of the fun in getting Artifact gear is being able to wear it, even if it's a red flag to everyone that you're a White Mage.

It's just that there have been times for me where I haven't been able to receive any teleportation help when being as unasserting as possible (by shouting that I needed a Teleport, had reward amount, {Excuse me...} {Please forgive me.}, whatever). It just doesn't help sometimes, so there's only the choice of hoofing it or tracking down a White Mage. When you're in that position, you wonder how so many of them could just ignore you, some even just sitting down not doing anything, and wonder if you'd ever do the same thing if the roles were reversed. Oh well...

[Crispleaf]

People constantly look for White Mage handouts because thats what you are, a support job, your job is to support the team.

My point exactly! I support the team. My team! :!:

When I'm in a party, I certainly don't ask for money for teleports or raises any more than a ninja would ask for money for shihei cast or a ranger would ask money for arrows fired.

In fact, I even kick in a little extra with juices and mushroom soup and echo drops in case I'm silenced. It's because I've joined a team and I'm there to contribute.

However, after hours, when I'm not in a party, how is it that I'm a part of your team all of a sudden? Am I supposed to be the people's white mage Nobody has that kind of expectation on them, why should a white mage? But white mages often do have that expectation, and I'm not saying I never take pity and help, but I have to draw the line somewhere!

From my fellow white mages, can I get an, "Amen!?"

I've never understood the part where it is assumed I had to be a magic genie to anyone who demanded my services. I am NOT at your beck and call. What I do is out of the kindness of my heart and my own free will. I reserve the right to refuse any and all requests of my time, as would any other character in the game. And I won't be judged on when I offer free help and when I charge for it either. It's my right, I've earned it, and if you don't like it, then please add me to your /blist

...

I'm in an unusually fiery mood today

Where's Sasuske?

[Tivia]

You guys are making this far more complex then it really is.

Its not the amount of gil, It is the attitude behind it.

Let me give you some background on me, I have played MMORPGs since meridian59, I have played games including Ultima Online, EQ, Shadowbane, DAOC, FFXI, SWG, and a slew of other online multiplayer games I cannot even begin to remember. Over the years I have noticed a disturbing trend that I find myself more and more resentful of. That is the trend of players "Expecting" that other gamers Owe them something. The lack of respect in online gaming communities has gotten appalling. When communities like this first started out, People volunteered to help others out, wether newbies, or just someone in need. The reason this help was so plentiful is people were geniunely grateful and appreciative. However as time has progressed that gratefulness and appreciation has degenerated into expection and in some cases demand. Suddenly new players join a community and the first thing they do is stick their hand out and Demand something...Money..gear..power leveling..Anything to make Their game easier be damned to the fact that it is someone else's game as well.

This is why I have gone from someone who used to host newbie events, give out gear and other things simply for the love of it, to someone who generally either Ignores tells or simply says no. Want to know why I will not consider a tele for less then 1k? and even then its debatable if Ill do it? Simple. when a player messages me asking for a Tele when Im not offering, they are aknowledging that I am not offering and they require a service I can offer. However when they Offer the Minimum that they would offer to someone Offering the service to someone not publically offering. I find that as absolutely insulting and just another reminder of the "You Owe Me" Attitude that seems to prevalent. When I ask for 1k+ I am simply responding to an Insulting attitude with the stance, of "Ok you want me to go out of My way, and waste my game time to Make your gametime easier, I expect you to recognize that I owe you nothing"

Its that simple, its a matter of forcing people to recognize what they are asking. Its simple, I Owe No one anything. Its my game, my character, my time and my money and I will use it in the method that brings me the most enjoyment as that is why I play. I utterly loath the fact I have had to adopt this attitude, however I refuse to continue to be a doormat and perpetuate this mentality that is destroying our online gaming experience. I will not baby sit and teach manners to little johnny or suzy because their parents are too lazy and worthless to teach them respect, I will however openly stand against doing what they have obviously had done to them their entire life, and thats have every whim and demand met. I guess in effect I refuse to raise other peoples kids, regardless of if those kids are 12 or 50, and yes I have met 50 year olds with the mentality of a 12 year old.

I guess Ive gotten into a rant now, but this is just something that irritates me and has grown more irritating over the years. My spouse feels the same, simply sick an tired of people expecting us to cater to them, fine Ill cater to you..but its going to require and extended effort on your part as well. you want my service? pay my price, otherwise I have better things to do. When I want your service I pay your price. People that want to pay the minimum for everything piss me off. I have Never Ever asked for a Teleport, or res in any game that I did not offer at least Double the standard rate. I fully understand they want to play as well. If I am dead somewhere remote, I pay for every bit of that mages time. I have died in remote places many times. Due to what I pay I have yet to have a single mage turn me down to come get me, and I pay well even in crowded areas.

Want to know what I pay when I want someone's service when I realize they are not otherwise offering?

Ill pay 1500 for a teleport without question, and anywhere from 3k to 15k for a res depending on the level of res and how hard I am to get to. Sorry I resent people who expect to have things handed to them for the minimum, that mentaility is the one thing that inceses me more then anything.

[Maezen]

Anem Crisp, Amen.

[Josiejo]

Wow, we have a bunch of disgruntled White Mage kitties amongst us.

Well, I will tell you that, from my point of view, I'm not expecting anyone to anything for me. What I feel like I do hold against someone I ask for help is the hope that they would do what I would do, which is help if I could. Now "if I could" includes whether or not I'm busy, in the mood, etc. I understand that some people will have their own aversions to dispensing their unique brand of help, but when it spreads as far as a classwide mentality, there's something of a problem. Just as you say people have lost respect and appreciation, I think people who are in a respectful role are often unwilling to help strangers at all, and only helping friends after some sarcasm about their job ability abuse. I care as much for the "greater than thou" elitist ego as I do the disrespectful demanding brat. Sad thing is both are a result of the game growing to a point where "Teleports" have become common knowledge as a means of quick transport.

All I know is that when I do bother someone for a teleport, I'm very grateful and considerate. I try to only do so if I really am in need, else I usually take a Chocobo. But it wouldn't matter if I told some of the people I've asked for Teleports that I couldn't be more appreciative, because they just don't care. They don't want to move from the spot they've been sitting at in Lower Jeuno for the past 3 hours. Or, they're going to "log out", and I find them still online an hour later. And when I finally do get a teleport, I'll often pay twice what the usual fee is. I'd pay more, but I just don't make a lot of gil right now. So it's possible that some of the people you turn away think as I do... you're not just a means to an end... you're an inspiration, and a beacon for help. I know not everyone can help all the time, but when I do come across one White Mage who will help little ol' me, I always think "I can't wait to be like them... I can't wait to help someone the way they helped me."

[Maezen]

Don't get us wrong Jo, I *think* Crisp would agree with me that we'd be willing to help the pride anytime as a cookie-cutter whitemage should, but it's those random strangers out there that really get under our collars when we're just trying to go about our regular business. I mean if i'm not doing anything, I'll gladly help out someone in need, but I've found over the constant requests for raises, teleports, healing spells and sometimes even gil that i've grown a little cold at all the requests as though i'm here to do nothing but serve the populace...I don't mind helping out the random stranger sometimes but I swear if I got on my whm, I could do these things the whole time i was logged in and not accomplish anything for myself. And yes Neo, I DID do all the teleport quests for myself. I wanted to be able to travel quickly wherever I wanted to go and not have to wait or pay my own way there. I'm an aspiring Dragoon and leveled whitemage in my SPARE time so that I could do that.

Call me greedy if you want, but I would have you know that I ALWAYS raise for free, save the lower jobs from things when I can get a Dia off, and I HATE teleporting and don't advertise myself for it. so if you're gonna ask for a tele be considerate to your whm. Also whenever *I* need a tele, I will pay between 700 and 1000 ALWAYS

[Tivia]

People with your attitude are few and far between josie. I assure you however gamers like myself can pickup on that in game, and I continue to help people out like youself happily. Regretablly the majority of gamers come off how I discribed in my post, honestly I consider this unfortunate.

People whom I consider friends, I always help without question or expection of money. People who are genuinely attempting to become a productive part of the community also will continue to recieve help from players like myself. If you have played as long as I have it is very very easy to recognize personality types in game.

I guess I could simplify my previous rant by stating, People who come off as Expecting or demanding without thought or consideration to the value of my time, I am going to expect/demand more of them. People who come off as genuinely grateful and appreciative, are going to be treated as such. ( sorry about the rant, this is one of those touchy subjects with me. )

Oh and btw, I love your sig..dunno if I mentioned that or not before, but I have always loved your sig.

[Josiejo]

Heh... thanks. I wish I drew it... I'm practicing though. I finished one drawing last night... my hand isn't quite up to par with drawing what my mind wants it to, but I don't think it's too bad. I'll post it later, after I sleeeeeeep!

[Shirai]

hmm.. a discusion I didn't expect....

Let's clear one thing,

I do not charge for teleporting!
{Price} = {Anything}
Those 10 to 30K an hour are all donations for the service.
I do not charge, but I do not turn down money either

[Neoshinobi]

I'd say i'm more mad at the White Mage mentality that I often come across that they seem to think their above others because of their abilities.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I'd say i'm more mad at the White Mage mentality that I often come across that they seem to think their above others because of their abilities.

Now me, I dislike leveling WHM because of the attitudes twoard WHMs out there on the hunt.

You are not a person, you are a comodity.

[Kahvi]

I'd say i'm more mad at the White Mage mentality that I often come across that they seem to think their above others because of their abilities.

Now me, I dislike leveling WHM because of the attitudes twoard WHMs out there on the hunt.

You are not a person, you are a comodity.

and the sad thing is that any WHM can get to high levels without having a lick of skill either. I knew a few WHm i partied with that, I as an RDM was a better healer than they were. so part of it is that kind of animosity?


-back to the corner

[Josiejo]

Leveling WHM is better because it is so desirable. Ever sit in Qufim with your thumb up your arse waiting for a party invite? Not fun, is it? But if you were a WHM, you'd be beating back invites. Every party needs healing, and no one does it better than a WHM. I don't see that as a weakness or something WHMs are being taken advantage of. Rather, I assume the advantage-taking is mutual, since in return, WHMs are more likely to gain EXP faster than any other job.

[Crispleaf]

Leveling WHM is better because it is so desirable. Ever sit in Qufim with your thumb up your arse waiting for a party invite? Not fun, is it? But if you were a WHM, you'd be beating back invites. Every party needs healing, and no one does it better than a WHM. I don't see that as a weakness or something WHMs are being taken advantage of. Rather, I assume the advantage-taking is mutual, since in return, WHMs are more likely to gain EXP faster than any other job.

That is true to a certain extent.

It was always easy for me to get a party starting out as a white mage. Even when I was leveling as a red mage, I'd have to wait for all the white mages to get invited first before I'd be invited at all

But the invites completely die off once you near level 41. The reason?

Red mages steal the show.

Because of Convert and Refresh, most parties don't consider a white mage a priority. The only times I do get invited now is because all they could find was a bard, or the red mage insists on not being the main healer, or they need Stona cast, which is the only status cure a rdm/whm can't do.

Otherwise, the only spells I have that a red mage/white mage doesn't are some divine spells (i.e. Holy, Flash, and some Banish variation spells which no one misses, least of all me), some stronger Regen spells, Stona (which cures petrification, rarely needed, but welcome when it is), Cure 5 (which isn't missed if you have Cure 4), and of course, Raise 2 and Raise 3.

People would much rather have a Converting and Refreshing red mage that can heal non-stop and even keep other mages topped up with mp over a white mage with a couple of stronger Regen spells and who runs out of mp real fast without assistance or substantial downtime.

In the 70s level-wise, the only reason anyone pays any attention to a white mage at all is because of the 99% xp back from Raise 3. There's no other reason we need to exist, to be honest.

Fortunately, I'm leveling red mage close on the heals of my white mage

[Tivia]

I somewhat disagree with you on whm not being as useful 41+ crisp. Its all a matter of skill and reputation.

I do not log on often, but every time I do It's usually mere minutes before I have 4+ invites, I have logged in more then once to several whm and several rdm lfg and still gotten a party almost immeditally. It comes down to knowing how to use food and drink to full effect, I am constantlly using yagudo drink in a good group, pineapple in a ok group. Basically whatever is necessary to keep my mp capped. Also another thing I have noticed on my server at least, is whms dont use Regen. This flatly blows me away as to why they do not, honestly using regen2 I hardly have to heal. I toss a regen on the puller, regen 2 on the tank, haste on the dps, and toss a heal here or there, I rarly finish a IT fight with anything less then 70% mp, I fall below that I toss a drink back. Of course it also helps that I am almost always grouped with a nin, yea I am one of those whms who disagree with anyone who things a nin is a subpar tank..personally any tank I can keep alive on mobs generating me 200+ exp constantly getting chain 4, for little effort is my definition of a good tank. Show the nin a little haste love and there wont be a bit of problem with aggro.

Of course it is all server based, if your server in general is not fond of whm 41+ then yea It might be difficult to overcome the idiocy of all the others. I dont know if you do or do not, but my suggestion is to pick up a bit of japanese. I found that by speaking to the japanese players in their language has gotten me a huge advantage over most na players as their comminuty tends to be alot more loyal then ours. I get reinvites constantly from jp players who have me on their friends list. Now Im not fluent in the language, but I can certaintly understand enough to show them I am making the effort.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Now me, I dislike leveling WHM because of the attitudes twoard WHMs out there on the hunt.

You are not a person, you are a comodity.

and the sad thing is that any WHM can get to high levels without having a lick of skill either. I knew a few WHM i partied with that, I as an RDM was a better healer than they were.

I hate to tell you but we RDMs can get away with with being lousy or gimpped too. A friend just hit RDM50/WHM 19..... Of course he IS a Taru... But then again he is good at the job.

Ever sit in Qufim with your thumb up your arse waiting for a party invite? Not fun, is it? But if you were a WHM, you'd be beating back invites. Every party needs healing, and no one does it better than a WHM.

As a mater of fact, my WHM is 20 now. I can sit in Qufim for 1/2 an hour with no invites. I can get 10 invites in as many mins. too, ALL from singles who are thinking "Oooo a WHM, I can put a party together if I have a WHM." All of these people at least have the grace to send a /tell before they hit the invite button. Microseconds before. The /tell is usualy along the line of "Wanna PT?" At WHM 19 I sat for 1 1/2 hours one evening before giving up. On Garuda people are going to Qufim at 19, mages often at 18.

Sorry Jo, hard to get into action in less than 1/2 an hour even as a WHM in Qufim.

Every party does needs healing, I have been main healer (Heck ONLY healer) as BLM/WHM. (Manafont, Cure, Cure, Cure, Cure....) Ask any SMN/WHM about that. My Elvaan PLD was once Main Healer in Qufim. That was a strange party indeed.

[Baketsu]

I'd say i'm more mad at the White Mage mentality that I often come across that they seem to think their above others because of their abilities.

Now me, I dislike leveling WHM because of the attitudes twoard WHMs out there on the hunt.

You are not a person, you are a comodity.

and the sad thing is that any WHM can get to high levels without having a lick of skill either. I knew a few WHm i partied with that, I as an RDM was a better healer than they were. so part of it is that kind of animosity?


-back to the corner

I partied once with my RDM as the main healer, I was whacking ht emob with my sword too and keeping up with the heals, it was good that we had 2 nins and a couple or wars to pull hate effectivly.

[Josiejo]

Heh... that's good, Baketsu. I encourage all mages to melee if they choose. I did that with my old main, 42 WHM. The only time I'd stay away from the battlefront was if we had a Bard in the group. I never really did too much damage until getting to the critical level where you start moving on to different mobs or areas, but it helped me keep my Staff and Club weapon skills very close to max. And, I must say, I'm an excellent healer.

As long as you can prove you can do your job well, bonuses like weapon skill-ups are fine with me.

[Maezen]

I liked meleeing as a whm too until the mobs started to do those nasty AoEs