Curious Little Kitten Looking for a Mithra Ninja Mentor

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:42 pm

There is something I've wanted to try, and I'm not sure how well it will work.

The unexpectedly useful ninja/mage!

The downside to the ninja mage is that it's extremely expensive because of the amount of tools you'll need to buy, and 95% of people won't take you seriously at all, let alone as a tank (melee main job + mage sub job = newbie

)

The generally accepted time to try this is at level 60.

If you use a black mage subjob, you get the passive ability Magic Attack Up 2. You may be asking what that has to do with anything...

Well, this influences Ninjitsu, not just black magic. The damage that a ninja's elemental spells will dramatically improve. So much so, that if you cycle through all six while maintaining Utsusemi, you'll never lose hate.

Seems insane doesn't it? It's definitely the most creative combination I've seen in awhile

I've wondered how well this would work starting at an earlier level.

Red Mages gain Fast Cast at level 15, so could a level 30 nin/rdm cast Ustusemi:Ichi fast enough that they aren't interupted? And would using elemental Ninjitsu without a Magic Attack Up bonus still hold enough hate? But, Red Mages do get Magic Attack Up 1 at level 20... so maybe this would work better as a level 40 Ninja instead. In this case, maybe Fast Cast could speed up the cooldown for Utsusemi:Ni so you wouldn't need to use Ichi at all?

If a red mage doesn't work at 30, maybe a black mage would instead because they get Magic Attack Up 1 at that level.

Sadly, just using Utsusemi is expensive enough. I couldn't imagine the cost casting a dozen Ninjitsu spells a fight than just a couple. But I still think it would be fun to try, if just to prove that it could be done.

Someday when I'm a rich and famous mithra, maybe I'll do just that

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:54 pm

Nin/Blm is a probably the most viable option of the mage jobs. You could start trying at level 40 when you get the faster Ninjitsu elemental spells. It works quite well from what I’ve heard. It provides good steady damage; just under a BLM and a RNG (so I’ve been told). Not used so much in a tanking role as it is used in DD role. Without the Provoke ability it’s hard to gain the attention of the mob fast and consistently. The problems of this combo arise from two areas (1) like you said, nobody will take you seriously (2) another DD? Join the unemployed group of DRKs, DRGs, THFs, MNKs, SAMs, and other non-tanking NIN/(whatevers) and WAR/(whatevers) all LFP. With warrior subbed looking for a party is much less painful.

Like you said though, it would be fun to play around with. I’ve heard of RDM/NIN who have been able to solo some crazy stuff.

The great thing about the Ninja job is that it's extremely versatile can be adapted to multiple settings with the right combinations. Not many jobs enjoy such a diverse palette as the ninja. It all comes at a cost though.

Ziada · Post by **Ziada** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:10 am

When Tamarik needed to get his ninjitsu up to par, he talked me into tanking some high-level (to his ninja) beasties for him. Sort of a cross between a powerlevel and a skillup party.

With my 65 or so white mage, I'd aggro a Qufim crab, smack it around to get lots of hate, then cast blind and paralyze and turn around, so it'd stand there whiffing uselessly for ages. Then Tamarik spammed ninjitsu nukes as fast as he could. We moved up to acrophies, then bats in Behemoth's Dominion before he hit his 60-something cap. All done in 30-40 minutes.

Sugarpie · Post by **Sugarpie** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:33 am

Personally...ninja job bugs the crap out of me i hate the job but i have to lvl it because i love Thief

1. Ninja costs WAY to frecking much its like 10k for a stack of shihei
2. To get Ninjitsu up you have to pretty much spend crap loads of money
3. Its boring for me at least because all you do it get hit which i can do on warrior and have more fun while doing it

Don't listen to what is say cause i hate the job
I got a PL from lvl 12 to 22 JUST because it annoys me
and i won't lvl it without a PL i am about to go nin/thf i don't care if it bugs people

Monk is a better job then Ninja, and thief pwns them both

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:44 am

The cost of ninja tools will continue to rrrise as the cost of crystals and elm logs do.

Kessa · Post by **Kessa** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:06 pm

In regards to Nin/War's keeping hate.

I have been pty'ing with a Nin since it was around 35 in my semi-static. Our Nin has no problem keeing hate w/ a Thf in the pty. (The Thf is Me

) Once I SATA onto her the 1st time she never lost hate throughtout every battle. Even w/ a Blm nuke the hell out of things.

The only thing that she did was constantly spam his spells. The Debuffs 1st and then a string of the Elemental spells w/ Utsusemi's when needed. You should be able to keep hate just fine.

Remember you need a good Thf, Hopefully a Kittie one because we are the best

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:37 am

Okay All flaming emails to this will be discarded

I dont have utesumi, yet my Ninja just hit lvl15 today, how?
its Simple.

NINJA/THIEF!

Thieves in General are not tanks, and are not needed to hold hate, there for Utesumi is not needed for me as that combo, Ninja/Warrior IS a Tank in most Cases and w/o the scroll your screwed.

Utesumi is not needed in reality depending on your subjob, HOWEVER, I still reccomend getting it as I am, its a handy tool to have

My ninjitsu you ask? Hyoton: Ichi, cuz im broke off my tail
this has been help by Karou Kaniyashia, Creator of the Kaniya Hiten Style, and your resident War/Whm Ghetto Paladin.

Oh if your on Diabolos, I NEED GIL *cries*

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:25 am

Sugarpie wrote:Personally...ninja job bugs the crap out of me i hate the job but i have to lvl it because i love Thief

1. Ninja costs WAY to frecking much its like 10k for a stack of shihei
2. To get Ninjitsu up you have to pretty much spend crap loads of money
3. Its boring for me at least because all you do it get hit which i can do on warrior and have more fun while doing it

Don't listen to what is say cause i hate the job
I got a PL from lvl 12 to 22 JUST because it annoys me
and i won't lvl it without a PL i am about to go nin/thf i don't care if it bugs people

Monk is a better job then Ninja, and thief pwns them both

Sugarpie, I hate to be a negative nancy but why even post something like this? This is a thread that is dedicated to helping those who wish to play ninja and not a place to b!tch about it. This type of advice is not wanted or needed here. If somebody wanted to know why Ninja bugs you then you would be right on. I'm sorry . . . take this someplace else.

In other news I bought the Nikkariaoe and it's a very nice katana to have; worth every penny. A great tool for ninjas pre-utsusemi:ni.

Sugarpie · Post by **Sugarpie** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:09 am

Hey, i am just saying my opinions i find the ninja job to be overrated, pld is a better tanks anyways

Ninja is a job which allows WHM's to be lazy, that is why people want them other then for blink

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:52 am

I was once invited (as a white mage) to a party with 2 ninja who were fighting coeurls in the Labyrinth of Onzozo.

I spent most of the time casting Haste, Silena, and Stona... with only the occasional cure

Lunaleska · Post by **Lunaleska** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:15 am

sorry, I didn't read all the posts for this topic, I only read some of it. Mithra nin have very very high agi and dex already. You lack str.

so it looks like you need to get str+ or atk up gears....

BUT, actually, if you want to be a best nin there is... you need 3 sets of gears, and set your marco to change them asap as needed.

1st set, + Hate gears, nin's biggest problem is can't keep hate, so get as much keeping hate gear as you can. A good nin can keep as much hate as pld.

2nd set, atk up set, use for doing WS, more damage you do, helps keeping hate better ( usually only change to this set when doing WS, most of time use hate keeping equip)

3rd set, no matter how good you are... sometimes bad things just happens, so you need a life saving eq, +def, evasion and HP equip. This set of equip is also use for tanking HNM (such as Kirin or other god level HNMs)

my nin is only lv 42 now.. and I only got 1 set of equip ( a little bit of everything equip) I was gonna to lv nin to 75 before, that is why I ask the best nins in Cerberus server. But I took the opposite road.... I became a rng

(wasting money to get hit is just not as good as wasting money to hit mob to me

)

Hope it would be of some help to you.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Sugarpie wrote:Hey, i am just saying my opinions i find the ninja job to be overrated, pld is a better tanks anyways

Ninja is a job which allows WHM's to be lazy, that is why people want them other then for blink

then take your negativity out of this thread, w're trying to help ppl, guess what im a white mage and i put ninja's in my PT and im NOT LAZY i cure and cure i drain my MP tank with ninja tanks, this game is about a job you love, im sorry but sugarpie, opinon or not, dont tell this poor kitty every reason to NOT be a ninja if she wants to be a ninja thats her choice and doesnt need every negative aspect to affect her decsicion if yo wanna show all the bad points of a job, dont do it in this topic, start your own, becuase we are trying to help her

i grow tired of posts like this that dont help but bring a person down, if i had listened to you, id be a sucky player, becuase war/whm is still getting invites and im still holding dang good hate, so jsut stop trying to make people do what you would do by showing the bad side only.

kashell · Post by **kashell** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:22 pm

Sorry, I didn't actually read through all of it just skimmed through most of it.

About the lvl 40 elemental spells you will rarely be even doing 100 dmg so don't really be expecting to do 100+ damage with them, the only way to really do this is by doing the nin/blm combo Crispleaf mention earlier, I should also add that you cannot do this until lvl 60+, because you need the 2nd Magic Attack Bonus from /blm.

I should also add by doing nin/blm you will do amazing damage with you spells (usually around 150-200 dmg each), but simply going nin/blm is not enough, the person I saw did nin/blm had every HQ elemental staff which he would marco with the corresponding elemental spell (fire staff when casting Katon), he was also wearing the Moldavite earrings which has '+5 Magic attack bonus', and INT rings etc

Also the cost of doing nin/blm would cost even more then nin/war blink tanking, although I haven't check recently but if I remember right on Alexander the price for Katon tools are 13k+ while shihei are about 9k

I have some more nin stuff but I don't feel like writing anymore

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:57 pm

I have another question. Can any experienced ninjas out there tell me if adding an enmity item to my setup makes enough difference in my ability to maintain hate to justify occupying a slot? I'm thinking about getting a Mermaid Ring which adds enmity +2.

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:35 am

Starting angelwing assault mode since she isnt listening, and Liohs, you will back me cuz i know you told me this

Ninja's post 50 really have no business being tanks, yes they CAN tank, and im not saying they cant, they should really shouldnt, the nice thing is psot 37 Ninja's have Utesumi: Ni its faster recast and shorter time. However more likely post 50 you will have a paladin to tank, and you the DD /war doesnt always make you a tank, thank you angelwing. Enmity Items should only be used for Warriors imo, Ive seen ninjas not use enmity Items and still hold hate down better then a warrior main can do, remember i do both.in Yhoat, I have no problem holding down hate. I will reccomend you pick up at least one or two enmity items, just in case, becuase imo, no paladin to tank? get a Ninja Main, dont you even use warrior main if its ninja sub.

one more piece of advice, SHIHEI. When you carry stacks of them on you, set a cut off limit. Meaning if my shihei falls below my limit of 4 stacks, i stop lvling and go farm for more. thats important to watch your shihei, carry a few elemental tools aswell, wanna lvl ninjtutus? Tsurara, cheap lvling. Another piece of advice will save for shihei and gear, Rifles. Dont. Just.... No. Rifles are better for Rangers then thief for ninja for a reaons, Ninja's have other costs, Shihei is expensive alone w/o having to spring for bullets, if you can craft both tho, then go for it. Always, ALWAYS carry ranged and throwing like a chakram on you at all times many times have I been asked to pull. And i used my thrwoing Chakram.

there done rambling

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:32 pm

Dukuji wrote: I have another question. Can any experienced ninjas out there tell me if adding an enmity item to my setup makes enough difference in my ability to maintain hate to justify occupying a slot? I'm thinking about getting a Mermaid Ring which adds enmity +2.

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

If you don't mind going out in a blaze of gil, nin/blm is an option (I'm sure you're aware of) once hitting level 60.

Not that I'm an expert in this at all, but I've partied with one on a few occasions. It was a taru nin/blm who would almost never lose hate despite the presence of a pair of rangers in the party. And he could probably solo the monsters we were fighting all by himself if he really wanted to.

The black magic itself wasn't much help at all (apart from an occasional elemental seal + sleep when a link came along). What was important was the Magic Attack Bonus 2 which enhanced his elemental ninjitsu spells. He used ninja gear that enhanced int, had a moldavite earring, and used macros to equip elemental staves of the appropriate element of the ninjitsu he was casting to cause significant damage. This weapon switching made him lose tp, but it didn't matter. He did so much damage through spell casting that he wouldn't lose hate, even to the rangers.

Mind you, all that constant spell casting added up in ninja tool costs.

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:50 pm

Dukuji wrote: I have another question. Can any experienced ninjas out there tell me if adding an enmity item to my setup makes enough difference in my ability to maintain hate to justify occupying a slot? I'm thinking about getting a Mermaid Ring which adds enmity +2.

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Enmity gear helps alot as far as I am told by people who use such gear.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:41 pm

it Does Prrrsha, but its not necassary for all jobs, as i said before, Ninja main should have at least one or two, I ususaly have no problem holding down hate and my casting goes off quick, Warrior main and i dont care if your War/Nin, War/Mnk etc, your hate is loose, you need enmity.

Ninjas as far as that is concerned do have a little boost ive noticed from experience, Everytime i cast a ninjtusu, Utesumi or elemental, i pull hate. Not saying I holdi t down perfect becuase I dont. just a little info on that

kashell · Post by **kashell** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:20 am

You should always use the Hojo: Ni spell as a nin. Hojo: Ni slows down the mob by 30% where the spell Slow ranges from 10-30% depending on the MND of the caster

kashell · Post by **kashell** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:22 am

Oh and about enmity gear, I never used any enmity gear when I was lvling nin and I always held hate just fine even with a rng in my static, but it was mainly because I also had a thf in my static to trick onto me at the start of every fight. I would get some enmity gear anyways and just maybe marco them into your provoke marco if you wanted to.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:03 am

I suggested Dukuji get DEX+ gear instead of Enmity+ on her diary, but I dunno if she got it. I figured the added ACC and Crit bonuses would help hold hate through more landed attacks (and possibly more crits). Also, I'm sure any Haste+ items would help as well.

Dukuji · Post by **Dukuji** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:40 pm

kashell wrote:Oh and about enmity gear, I never used any enmity gear when I was lvling nin and I always held hate just fine even with a rng in my static, but it was mainly because I also had a thf in my static to trick onto me at the start of every fight. I would get some enmity gear anyways and just maybe marco them into your provoke marco if you wanted to.

Hmmm ... my static (currently level 48 ) is: WHM, RDM, BLM, BLM, NIN and an open floating DD spot. BLM's are crazy btw. In most situations when I do lose hate, the mob runs over to one of the BLMs, wacks them once , and then comes marching back over to me (without me having to do anything special). I guess that one hit is usually enough to lose interest in one of the BLMs and come my way. I really really want a THF but ... in our current set up there is no room for a THF and a ???/WAR. In parties with a THF (before my static days) I could almost flawlessly hold hate (chains up to 6 anybody?). I guess I can only do so much now having two BLM's that love to hurt things and have no regard for they're own life.

And just so everybody knows, I keep my throwing, Katana, Evasion, and Ninjitsu capped every level. I cast my enfeeb spells until they stick and I spam my wheel 2-3 times per fight. I try to MB my ninjitsu off the WS I take part in and I voke, berserk and dance around like a mad cat. Right now I'm spending about 14k an hour in tools and I have several pieces gear that I rotate throughout the course of the battle.

To KarouKaniyashia:
First of all thank you for your response. {/Bow} IMO 95.67% of Ninjas post 50 should not tank. Most of them just voke and cast Utsu. The other 4.23% go all out. When you get the rest of your Ninja spells you will see what I mean. Most ninjas do not have a choice but to tank. Sad but true. I for one don't mind ... it allows me to be untouchable ... how many jobs can say that? Therefore it is highly unlikely that I'll ever be in a PT with a PLD. That being the case Enmity should be used by any job that wants help in tanking. A huge help to ninjas is if they have a THF or not. As for your Shihei advice I currently practice something similar. I carry enough tools (yes, I carry and use every one of almost every battle) for about 6 hours of solid PTing. After that time I become tired, lose my focus and become sloppy. As for my ranged, I always use throwing items and currently only use shuriken when the sh!t hits the fan.

To Kashell and Prrsha:
I thank you also for your advice. {/Bow}

To Crispleaf (one of my crazy BLM

):
I can honestly say ... that I do not want to level a mage job at this time (a have a Taru who is a mage so I have played the mage role before). But NIN/BLM works very well in my opinion after level 60. Thanks for the offer but ... maybe someday. {/Bow}

To Joisejo:
I found your advice very interesting and am currently seeing how the DEX works in my PTing. I currently use the Fuma's for the haste but I think my RSE with the +3 STR is more useful since I have a WHM who casts haste on me right before everybattle.{/Bow}

kashell · Post by **kashell** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:38 am

Haste gear is one of the most important piece of equip you can get the +haste% lowers the recast time on your Ninjustsu spells most importantly Utsusemi, this also stacks with the spell haste, and I heard it also stacks with the March songs from bards but I haven't checkd it out since I rarely pt with brds

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:52 am

Haste is also necessary for any frontline melee or tanks, it does reduce the spell casting of Utesumi and so forth, but if you cast utesumi and can't hit fast enough