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Tigermilk
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PC Advice

Post by Tigermilk »

I'm currently studying in Japan but heading home in a month and looking to buy my first desktop. I've been working a few jobs here in Japan to save up some money and I'm looking to spend from $1,000 to $1,500.

I don't know that much about computers and I just recently restarted playing FFXI on PC (a year ago I was playing on PS2 but had to stop when I moved to Japan). Does anyone have any advice for what kind of computer is best? As of now I'm using a friend's laptop to play that care barely run the game...

I am planning to use the computer primarily for organizing school-work and work-related stuff and I'll of course want to play FFXI. As far as other games go I'm not interested in buying any high-end demanding games, chances are in the next year or two the only games I'll be buying is Sims 2 and the new Myst game.


I have installed RAM before but nothing like a video card or anything else, but I hear it's getting easier and easier to do these kinds of things. If anyone has any good advice or a heads up on some good deals please let me know!

Thanks!

:)
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Post by JediKitsune »

If you can find a computer hardware store, a good one that builds computers, you can ask them to help you in making a good system for as cheap or as expensive as you want it.

Sure, you could buy something like... a new Dell or HP or something similar, but custom-built PCs are usually more upgradable than those. My old HP, for example, used mostly proprietary parts, meaning only stuff from the maker of the computer would work in it for a lot of stuff save any RAM or PCI devices.

You don't need a screaming fast machine to play FFXI, but a newer one is definitely needed for playing it smoothly.

Don't bother with something like Alienware. They're hardcore gaming PCs and they CAN tune the machine for whatever game you want to play, but they cost so much and half of it is pretty much for the brand name.
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Post by sakono »

go in the irc channel and ask liohs for help. he can help you pic out parts. which will most likly be cheaper. but as far as puting it together.. have a friend who know about doing it or ask a good comp shop if they'd either put it to gether or how much to have em make one with the parts you want..
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Post by Baketsu »

For the controller i recommend getting a "Playstation to USB" converter so you can play with a PS2 controller! It is what i use and there is nothing like using a PS2 controller on a PC!!!
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Post by Tivia »

Give me a little bit to pull all the info together again and I will point you in the direction of a pc that will provide an excellent gaming experience and not pinch the budget.

One question however, What size monitor do you want?
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Post by Tivia »

Building a new PC is easier then ever, selecting the correct components however is not. It takes alot of knowledge to know what is good and what is not. Many aspects of the PC market change so rapidily that what may be top end today may not be in a month. One of the primary mistake's people make when building a machine is they assume Ghz means everything and that all hardware is effectively the same. This is FALSE, Hardware is not equal, GHZ is meaningless and there is a black and white difference between Prefab or even configure to order machines and an Actual custom machine.

In your case you desire to play FFXI, however I would assume that you will play some games advancing down the road so while a Top end unit is not the solution for you, you already have a fairly nice budget to work with. For this reference I am only going to use Newegg.com so I point everything out from one place, as a reference many of the parts here I point out can possibly be found cheaper through different vendors using pricewatch.com, however I created this from one simply for ease of reference. As far as assembly is concerned, if you question your ability or feel overwhelmed, simply have a knowledgable friend or even a local tech shop assemble for you, they will usually do so and install windows for a nonimal fee.

So with that said, here is the hardware I have picked for you and the reasoning why,

First and foremost is the Case, There are alot of choices on this however in your case I am attempting to save money while still providing a quality case, and since you seem to move a bit I gave portability a consideration as well. Also in this instance Motherboard, power supply and cooling played an important factor. Most cases will simply be the case and psu, but in the case of Shuttle since they produce an excellent motherboard Its a hard value to beat for the overall package. Even high end gamers such as myself who overclock and demand the absolute best performance are hard pressed to knock this unit, As well this case also utilizes the ICE cooling which is a Heatpipe based cooling solution for the CPU, and due to its configuration it puts Zero stress on the bracket or motherboard and is simply put one of the best cooling systems available outside Watercooling and above.

http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/Vi ... 471&depa=0 $289 This is a socket 939, now my initial inclination was to go socket 754 on this and save a bit of money, however since 754 is being phased out and since you have a bit more room then the last budget pc I built, I figured you would benefit from the added upgradabilty of this. So if you decide to up your cpu to a dual core at a later date you can simply upgrade your bios and keep your case/mb and everything.

Next the obvious CPU, based on the case/mb you can pretty well guess its going to be an AMD. For reference I am neither Pro AMD or Intel, I go with whichever cpu offers the best bang for the buck. Right now especially for gaming but really for anything the Athlon 64 is undisputed, Intel is simply not competiting. The intel 64 bit was not built as a 64 bit chip and it does not function well as one, it performs no faster then its 32bit counterpart unlike the A64 where there is a noticable difference. Currently there is no reason to buy an intel chip, that may change soon its hard to say, Intel is being tight lipped about it.

http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/Vi ... 502&depa=0 $195 Athlon 64 3200+, this is fast enough to run FFXI without the slightest struggle and fast enough to carry you at least 1 year or two into future games. And as I said the motherboard is fully upgradable to the Dual cores since this socket will be around a while.

On to the next topic, RAM. There is no way for me to convey to you how important ram is without going into a long diatrabe of which most you wont understand. Lets suffice to say people are simply badly misinformed with the importance of ram, quantity is important yes, however quality is more so. I can easily prove to you that 512mb of Premium memory will easily outperform 1gb of generic, it comes down to how fast the Ram actually works, not how fast it Claims to work. But as I said, Very very long topic. Fortunatly for those in the know buying premium memory is not as arduous as one would expect nor as expensive.
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi ... 440&DEPA=0 $81.99 for 1gb of Corsair Value select. Corsair is hands down the best Ram on the market right now and has proven it time and again. Talk to any overclocker and 90% of the time its what they use. Now while the High end gamers prefer the XMS series unless you are overclocking there is no need to go past the Value select. It carries the same Lifetime warranty that the XMS does at half the cost. Yes thats right I said Lifetime warranty, find that on generic.

Hard Drive, Alot of choice here some prefer Maxtor, some prefer Western Digital, some prefer Seagate. I went with the best deal on the website which happens to be a western digital.
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi ... 154&DEPA=0 $114 250gb SATA hard drive, Lets simply say you can download alot of stuff on it. Also it is the SATA intereface which is faster then the older standard, plus uses a smaller cable which allows for better airflow in the case.

Optical drive, You know these are an amusing thing as basic CD roms are still $25 and DVD roms are $36 retail. Why on earth buy a basic when you can buy a burner for a scant amount more. This is a lite on, and while you may not be familiar with their name, suffice to say they sell their cores to the majority of OEM computers, so to say they are a pretty good burner is an understatement. Also a $44.99 This is a Steal for a 16x dual layer DVDRW/CDRW, it handles all formats.
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/Vi ... 966&depa=0

Video card, This is one of the most important parts of the unit. The biggest mistake most people make is they go for a budget card thinking to save a bit of money. In the end most spend more because the card lacks so many features they end up upgrading far more often then someone who buys a top end card. However you do not have to buy bleeding edge but you want a good value for your money. Right now based on your budget this is the best bang for you.
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi ... ory=BROWSE $295 A couple of Important notes for you, #1 LIFETIME warranty, yes there is that lifetime mention again, I have dealth with PNY and I assure you its a decision you will not regret. You should get no less then 3 to 4 years of solid gameplay out of this card, right now its one of the best performing cards for the money. Coupled with the fact that if it dies in say 3 years PNY will replace it most likely with a then current generation card. If you get 4 years out of it like I did my last PNY card then you cant really complain about the amount of money because you will never get 4 years of excellent gameplay performance out of a budget card..

Sound card...You can buy one..but you honestly do not need it. The Integrated sound in the Shuttle case is Superb.

Windows, your choice, I selected pro as I particularly dislike Home and at $149 its hard to argue, but if you want to save the money home edition is $88.
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi ... ory=BROWSE

Now with that said that leaves monitor, you have not mentioned anything as I typed this so I will guess.

http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi ... 171&depa=1 $255 only two things matter in LCD monitors, contrast Ratio and Response time. This monitor has the best of both and at $255 is an incredible value. It is a gaming monitor, it will not ghost your games it will look good playing them and you wont regret it. You can of course go larger it depends on what you want to spend.

So I am going to attempt to link the shopping cart so you can see but your total is as follows in case you cannot. $1396.93 minus shipping, there was a instant rebate on the case, I do not know where you live so I chose the most expensive place to ship which is CA, due to free shipping on alot of stuff its $30.79 for Everything which is damn cheap. Also Newegg is pretty much second day. GRAND TOTAL $1,427.72, Feel free to shop around but you will be hard pressed to find Any Pre fab machine that even comes close to competing with this for overall value. Also as a note everything that does not have a lifetime warranty has a 3 years warranty, all Prefabs are 1 year and you have to pay for extended.

Shopping cart if it links http://secure.newegg.com/Oldversion/app ... otionCode=

Oh yes, on keyboard and mouse..pick one you like its all about personal taste they effectively all work the same.
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

The short of it.

Any decent modern motherboard with 1/2 gig of memory will happily run the game.

Ditto any decent modern Vid card with 128 Meg of Video RAM.

Keep it cool. Two fans are better than one. Three are better than two.

If you buy it pre made, by from a place close to you that has a good garentee.

If you have a friend build it, try for a friend who has no life beyond hardware. One who just can't leave FFXI when your computer blows up will cost you in Repair Bills from that shop you didn't buy the machine from.

One system I ran this game on: Atahlon 750 192 meg Ram, MX 440 PCI 64 meg Video Card, 56K dialup. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Tigermilk »

Wow thanks for all the good advice! I'm actually thinking of trying to build a computer. I haven't done it before, and all this advice is really helpful. I have some friends who I think can help me out, and it looks like it is considerably cheaper to make your own system rather than buying a premade system (and I don't want all the useless crap you get when you buy something like a dell or an hp). My father has built a few computers and worked for IBM for about 30 years so I think if all else fails I can fall back on him for advice... hopefully!

Thanks for all the good input!
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Post by Tigermilk »

I do have one question. As for the case you recommended, the Shuttle XPC. It comes with a power supply of 240W, but the graphics card you recommended, the GeForce 6800GT (which is probably a bit over my budget) recommends a 350W power supply. Would this cause a lot of problems? I'm not interested in overclocking, I will probably get a cheaper graphics card anyway. Slowly reading more into all this and learning a bit more... Any advice would be appreciated!
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Post by Karou Ariyen »

WHen it comes to parts, sometimes new can be old. my best example, is i went to a local swap meet, pc show, w/e you wanna call it. This is my new case here: http://www.atxcases.com/products/produc ... prodid=204

so tell me this, why Did I pay half price for it? Becuase the window it had, was a nasty big gash down the sidel. As-is, the rest of the case was good. I already had a window to use: http://www.frozencpu.com/wnl-12.html

good find imo and a nice case none the less :) look aorund at swap shows, resale stores, etc, remember if the componant is useable and case wise its something you can buff out or the like, dont be afraid to investigate it :)
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Post by Tailfeather »

yes powersupply is very important ^^;
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Post by Naru Fugihara »

http://www.tigerdirect.com/static/html/ ... gtips.html

That link leads to a step by step, very detailed, tips on building a PC from scratch.

One major tip it gives on the matter of powersuplies is that you should try to get a case that doesn't come with one so that you can get the right one needed.
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Post by Batsu »

Try to pick up a copy of World of Warcraft too, I recently temporarily retired from Final Fantasy XI to play that game and I must say it is most excellent. I'm not trying to convert you over to something, simply suggesting you try it out. Its fine if you decide not to, I just think that alone its an excellent game, and another plus is the fact that you don't have to devote all of your time to playing just to get somewhere and to please the other players. From what I read it seems like you're going to be pretty busy, so it seems like more of a game for you, part of the reason I took a break from Final Fantasy XI is the simple fact that I did not have time to play it with all the work and what not I've had to do lately.

If you'd like for me to list some more pros and cons of both I'll gladly do it, just ask, thats all.^^

Oh and to all the people hoping I canceled my Final Fantasy XI account . . . I didn't! So ha, I know you would have loved to not see me around but I will be around and you'll love it~! =D

Anyways, later~ see ya around.
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Post by Yukira »

I recently bought the following:

Motherboard: DFI UT Lanparty SLI-D (183 €)
Graphics card: MSI Geforce NX6600GT SLI (179 €)
Power supply: Antec Truepower 2.0 550W (135 €)
Memory: Kingston Valueram DDR400Mhz ECC 512 Mb x2 (55.90 € x 2)

Working nicely now and when I buy another 6600GT to get SLI-mode...:D
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Post by Kotomo »

Heh heh, first time I bought a case it came with a 300watt power supply, whole thing was 30 bucks. Real dirt cheap :P Though now I've gotten more high end parts so I finally got a 500watt, still the same cheap case though.

If you want a graphics card that isn't so high end like the 6800GT you could go for the GeForceFX 5200 or any of the other GeForceFX series cards. I have it and it runs FFXI pretty well. Not all parts are very smooth, such as Jeuno, that gets laggy in frames per second. But exp partying, for example works just fine. (Though I'm actually upgrading to a 6800GT (>'.')> ) ATI cards work too. The Radeon 9800 Pro might be record cheap or something below that like the 9600.

So for case and power supply I would suggest a Tower since they are usually the easiest to work with in terms of space inside. Power supply should probably be at or over 400watt. You can never over do it since you want to be sure all your parts have enough power.
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Post by Batsu »

I absolutely love how everyone ignores me. =D
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

/comfort Batsu

Therrre therrre, don't worrry, someday everrrything will be much worrrse.
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Post by Karou Ariyen »

Tsybil wrote:/comfort Batsu

Therrre therrre, don't worrry, someday everrrything will be much worrrse.
:lol: :D :2thumb: :mrgreen: :rofl: :twisted:
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Post by Tigermilk »

Well all I will be able to play from now until I move home and build my PC is World of Warcraft, so I'll give it a second chance. I started that game over a month ago and didn't really get into it, but I only made one character and maybe Druid just isn't my thing... Anyway. Since I can't play FFXI until I move back to America and build/buy a PC I've spent way too much time looking up different cases, drivers whatnot. It seems to turn out to be about the same price to build a PC as it is to buy one but I like the idea of putting something together yourself from scratch, it's somehow more personal. I would like to hear anyone's opinion on the setup I've come up with:

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811144160
ASPIRE X-QPACK-NW-AL
I wanted to use the Shuttle case I was recommended but I knew I'd have to replace the PSU in that and even though I want something compact since this is the first computer I'll be making I'd rather have a bit more room. I don't like being able to see the insides of a computer so I picked the model without the clear side panels... I read some good reviews, even though it isn't steel I want something compact. I plan to replace this PSU too after reading some reviews from people using this case, since it fits most PSUs I think this is a good choice...

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813130485
MSI RS480M2-IL Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
I picked this solely on the reviews from the website, which maybe isn't so smart? Anyway, my only requirements were that it be a socket 939 and that it fit into a MicroATX case. I'm assuming this would fit into the case I picked. If I made an obvious error here let me know, it would suck if I bought parts that don't fit together and I could so see myself doing something like that.

Also, this motherboard says: "ATI Radeon XPRESS 200" but that doesn't mean that I have to install a Radeon graphics card does it? I could put in a GeForce 6600 or something like that right? As you can tell I'm a total noob/moron with this stuff. I don't really mind if I have to use a Radeon with this either way, they both seem like they work well if you're just buying a mid-range graphics card...

Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103535
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor
This seems like the best choice, everyone tells me AMD Athlon is good for gaming PCs. While my computer won't really be a hard core gaming PC, this fit my budget. Is Venice ok? Also, I don't understand how AMD Processors work. Instead of seeing something like 2.5 Ghz you get a number like 3000 or 3200. How do these compare?

Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145450
CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Again I'm following people's recommendations. I want atleast 1 GB to start with. As far as I can tell this will plug into the motherboard I picked...

Hard Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822144154
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JD 250GB
I'm not sure I understand all this stuff about hard drive setups, but for me it sounds like a SATA setup works fine. I only plan to use one hard drive. What's the benefit of using a RAID setup? Anyway, 250 GB is probably more than I'll ever use since I'm not a hard core gamer and I don't download music or movies ever.

DVD Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827106988
LITE-ON Black IDE DVD Burner Model SOHW-1693S Black
This was also by recommendation. I didn't realize DVD burners got so cheap! WOO!

Media Card Reader: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820300901
Linkskey LKA-CR15B 19-in-1 USB 2.0 Black Card Reader/Writer
Actually, this is proabably totally unecessary but I had a question about these. I don't really want a floppy drive, but I have a digital camera and some other devices with memory sticks. they can all be hooked up to the computer by other means but is this really a fast and easy way to go about it? I kinda like to have something installed in that 3.5" slot... Would this fit in my case?

Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824001171
SAMSUNG 710N-BK Black 17" 12ms LCD Monitor
I'm not so picky about having a really big monitor, and i'm all for having something more small and compact. I do have a question about using TV tuners. If I were to get an ATI graphics card with a TV tuner that would let me watch TV on a computer monitor right? I'd kind of like this over having a television since I don't have much room. What about LCD TVs? Those work as monitors and TVs, but they don't require a graphics card with a TV tuner? I'm a bit confused about that. Would I need an LCD TV and a TV-tuner in a graphics card to be able to watch TV? Is this all totally unecessary and not very functional?

Video Card:
Choice #1: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102286
ATI RADEON 9800PRO 128M Radeon 9800PRO 128MB 256-bit DDR
Choice #2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130220
eVGA 128-A8-N350 Geforce 6600GT 128MB
Not really sure which is best. A bit unsure on which works best with the motherboard I picked, probably the Radeon? Also a bit concerned about the heating. I think the graphics card is the main reason why I might need to replace the PSU that comes with the Aspire case (from what I've heard from others).

So let me know what you think. Also, I'd like to hear from other people who have put together their own systems. What are you using and do you have any advice or stories about putting together your system? Thanks for your time![/url]
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

Tigermilk wrote:Case:.... I plan to replace this PSU too after reading some reviews from people using this case, since it fits most PSUs I think this is a good choice...
You can find cases without power supplies. Harder in the micro or mini casses though.
Tigermilk wrote:Motherboard:.... Also, this motherboard says: "ATI Radeon XPRESS 200" but that doesn't mean that I have to install a Radeon graphics card does it?...
What that means is that the board has a built in graphics chip. A lousy one too. You will be MUCH better off if you can find a board that does not have one. Yes you can install any Graphic Card in it though.
Tigermilk wrote:Processor:.... Also, I don't understand how AMD Processors work. Instead of seeing something like 2.5 Ghz you get a number like 3000 or 3200. How do these compare?
Intel and AMD chips are built with different Philosophys. Intel goes for raw speed while AMD goes for throughput. Intel does more operations / second, the numbers like 2.5 Ghz, while the AMD running slower pushes more data through in the same time with fewer operations / second. As their numbers LOOK smaller, they just name the chips with numbers that aproximate the speed of the Intel chip closest to any chip one is competing with.

Clear as mud right? That, I Think is part of the idea.
Tigermilk wrote:Hard Drive:.... I only plan to use one hard drive. What's the benefit of using a RAID setup? ...
It is two hard drives each backing the other up. Each bit of data is on both drives. One drive goes down hard? No problem, everything is on the other as well.

Tigermilk wrote:Monitor:... I do have a question about using TV tuners. If I were to get an ATI graphics card with a TV tuner that would let me watch TV on a computer monitor right? I'd kind of like this over having a television since I don't have much room. What about LCD TVs? Those work as monitors and TVs, but they don't require a graphics card with a TV tuner? I'm a bit confused about that. Would I need an LCD TV and a TV-tuner in a graphics card to be able to watch TV?


I run a nice 19" Flat Screen and an ATI All - In - Wonder card, the TV tuner model. Works great. I love the combo. There is far more to the All - In - Wonder cards than just a good vid card and a TV tuner. The hardware is all you need for a nice video editing studio, and it hav a Tivo like function too.

LCD TVs have a far lower pixel count than Monitors. Do not use one for a monitor. Strangely enough they cost MORE than a monitor of the same size.
Tigermilk wrote:Video Card:
Choice #1: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102286
ATI RADEON 9800PRO 128M Radeon 9800PRO 128MB 256-bit DDR
Choice #2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130220
eVGA 128-A8-N350 Geforce 6600GT 128MB
Not really sure which is best. A bit unsure on which works best with the motherboard I picked, probably the Radeon? Also a bit concerned about the heating. I think the graphics card is the main reason why I might need to replace the PSU that comes with the Aspire case (from what I've heard from others).
Right now the Nvida cards AT THE TOP END outperform the ATI. You will never notice the difference unless you play the hottest games on the market. They produce WAY more heat and have much bigger fans. They take up two slots in order to have an extarnial exuast. Only ATI has the awesome TV functionality of the All - In - Wonder cards though.
Red Mage 99, White Mage 50, Black Mage 75, SCH 99, Summoner 14, THF 25, BLU 25, NIN 50, WAR 18, DRK 50, DNC 49, PLD 50. Goldsmith 72 +2, Cooking 60 +2, Alchemy 41, Fishing 33, Rank 8, Windurst, Lakshmi (Garuda, I weep for you)

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xaresity
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:46 am

Re: PC Advice

Post by xaresity »

xaresity
Queen Cat
Posts: 40510
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:46 am

Re: PC Advice

Post by xaresity »

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