MPK Changes

Losfuin · Post by **Losfuin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:00 pm

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/information/1208.html

Apparantly the BSTs on Alla are in uproar over this. But, it seems a good thing to me.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 pm

Finally! And the BSTs can just frickin get over it. You realize how many times my parties have been aggro'd cuz some damned BST leaves his pet around for us to have to kill and get no Exp for? I got tired of that REALLY quick in Garlaige Citadel. ><

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:28 pm

Yay! All those BSTs can go **** themselves, also means will be no MPK wars around serket hehe.

Kateevia · Post by **Kateevia** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:52 pm

This is good news. I may be missing something tho, will this affect BST in a neg way at all? I dont see why they would be mad.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:10 pm

If I read this one section right....

POL wrote:-If a player is KO'd or moves to a new area while fighting a monster at a location in which the monster does not usually inhabit, the monster will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area. Instead, it will simply disappear.

This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.

There will be no more waiting for trains to clear the zone at such train stations as Garliage Citidel.

The BSTs on Alla LIKE to see their released pets hurt people??!!??

Onira · Post by **Onira** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:11 pm

I can see why it would be bad for BST.

They run away from their target to get a new pet, if the target follows and becomes unclaimed while outside that radius, would it still follow the BST as they get a new pet? That is something Im not sure of, but if it were true, could be serious problems for leveling and already hard job. So it all depends on what that radius is, I would think its large enough for them to still exp as normal though.(also have to remember people on Allak like to whine about everything)

Id also like to add...quit hating BSTs for no reason damnit! >.> i swear people these days always blame BSTs, most of them are just honest players trying to exp, dont hate them all for something 3 or so BSTs did. I think it's just thought of as an easy target job because it solo's a lot, actually i've found when I solo as NIN people look at me differently as well. When you're solo a PT doesnt think twice about waltzing into your camp and taking over.

Anyway, it does seem like a good update, not sure itll help with MPK wars on Serket cause of his poison, but it will help with many things, like valkurm, kazham, and garliage. It will also make camping NMs more reasonable now that you cant bot voke mobs.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:32 pm

When you use Leave on a pet, the (former) pet heals to full health without the Beastmaster having to pay for Reward food. Then they can just recharm it afterwards.

If this change causes those pets to instead disappear when Leave is used on them, it will slow down Beastermaster xp. They'll either have to run back for a new pet, or they'll have to buy a lot of food to keep rewarding their pet so they don't die.

I think that's what the legitimate Beastmasters are worried about.

Tangrax · Post by **Tangrax** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:17 pm

Crispleaf wrote:If this change causes those pets to instead disappear when Leave is used on them, it will slow down Beastermaster xp.

if they only dissapear when they're a certain distance away from their normal spawn point i think itd be ok, but i've never played bst myself (just unlocked it

)

angeladark · Post by **angeladark** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:32 pm

Crispleaf wrote:When you use Leave on a pet, the (former) pet heals to full health without the Beastmaster having to pay for Reward food. Then they can just recharm it afterwards.

If this change causes those pets to instead disappear when Leave is used on them, it will slow down Beastermaster xp. They'll either have to run back for a new pet, or they'll have to buy a lot of food to keep rewarding their pet so they don't die.

I think that's what the legitimate Beastmasters are worried about.

"legitimate" Beastmasters? correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't beastmasters supposed be proficiant in taming wild beasts no matter where they are? I mean, with the leave command, then you wouldn't need to budget as much gil to reward food. This way, if the beast does have leave performed on them then the beast truely does leave and the beastmaster must find another beast to tame. I see it as a way for the job to get back to how SE designed the job to be. Somewhat like the "nerfing" that Rangers and Ninjas got and the way in which the Dragoon job is being changed. Beastmasters are just going to have to get used to this idea cause perhaps some complained of those that do use the job to MPK or whatever. It's a typical case of the many need to deal with the abuse of a few.

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:56 pm

I checked the thread, it has to do with what they call "Ghetto Release" Seems Release comes in in the 30s somewhere. They zone, zone back, and reCharm once the pet is healed. Kinda puts an end to this practice.

Susannah · Post by **Susannah** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:29 am

From what I read in the update, the mob only disappears if the person who claimed it dies/leaves area.
I don't think it changes anything for BST.

Post by **Holydragoon** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:46 am

it definitely changes things for BST if they can't zone out, then zone back in to re-charm their pet. Seems to me like this puts an instant stop to this trick. Then again maybe SE doesnt like that BST could do that in the first place.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:08 am

I'd rather inconvenience a few if it means I can zone into Garlaige Citadel or Crawler's nest without having to worry about dying a few seconds later.

Post by **Sugami** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:22 pm

Sorry couldn't be bothered to read what everyone says

I know quite a few BSTs and they use Leave mainly if
1) the mob their fighting is almost dead
2) they've found a replacement pet

This won't effect this general exp-ing however there are some that like to find a strong pet and continuously use it, like in Ifrit's Cauldren they'd grab a scorpion and move it great distances from where it was originally obtained. I don't think SE planned BSTs to do that so I don't think they really care. I have a lot of stick with these BSTs 'cause they're usually responsible for cutting my mining runs short (when I used to mine there) and also end up getting exp parties killed in various places.

So in short the good BSTs won't be effected where the bastard ones will be

Fyori · Post by **Fyori** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:09 am

wow. I'm just feeling the love for beastmasters in this thread...

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:37 am

BST food regens now and they get no exp cuts when they use a called familar.

Post by **Shirai** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:11 am

In other news!!

This update is sweet,
I witnessed it first hand in Kuftal tunnel at the cape terrigan zone while exping, someone trains 10+ Robber crabs.
Zones, and after about 5 seconds poof Robbers gone.

All I can say is {Sweets}

Post by **Ambrey** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:22 am

I saw this tonight in Kuftal Tunnel too, our thf was pulling cocks and a Ladon agroed, she came running down the tunnel and all of a suffen poof, the Ladon was gone, freagin sweet.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:25 pm

There are downsides, though.

A tactic I've used to solo summoner xp doesn't work anymore. In Ifrit's Cauldron, there's no room to solo Volcanic Bombs (the bombs further in that are tougher than Volcanic Gas). So, what you would do is train the bomb to the Cloister of Flames zone, attack it until Carby dies, zone, then zone back in and attack the bomb with Carby again as it floats off. The bomb would still keep its TP and would still explode eventually if you kept at this.

But now the bomb disappears as soon as you zone

There's still the snolls in Uleguerand Range I could fight but they're surrounded by demons, evil eyes, ghosts, ice elementals, and true sight Tauranasaurs

Suhraa · Post by **Suhraa** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:35 am

I am talking here as a young BST (20 only), being in a BST ls with all BST from 5 to 75. Let's first state some explanations : leave is only lvl 35, ghetto release is mainly the use of Heel to get your pet killed when the mob is down to 1-3% health to deal the final blow yourself and get full exp, jug pets only provide us with EP to DC pets, and we generally exp charming EM mobs fighting T. It is a long and very slow way to go, u have to find the right mobs at the right time. Leave was used to have only one pet : u get your EM, let him fight (help a bit if u dont get too much hate) then when he is about to die, u Leave him and let him heal while u finish the mob for full exp.

The pb with the update is then when we pull a mob out of his radius, he will just pop out and reappear, either we want to use it as pet or to fight it. Which means again slower exp from a job that was already slow. Besides, if u use tame following a mis-charm (which happens fairly often), u will lose all agro and then again maybe your pet with depop.

Some high lvl BST thought about switching to pt configuration after this update. They bought party equipment, good jugs and waited : no invite. We are very good DD, but everyone thinks "BST is a solo job". So far guys, if u dont want to be even slower in exp, just quit the job.

For the pb of MPK, I get MPK many times like all of us in Garlaige, the Nest or Kuftal. And it was only one from BST, all the other by normal parties and people. Some people use BST to MPK, as u can use a lot of jobs to do that (maybe less conveniently but still). They will find other way to get the war, and all normal BST which would never MPK at will will get a harder job to do.

In my final opinion, BST were essentially the only solo job of the game, and they were exping as so, then as anyone is craving to finally do something solo in that game, SE do exactly the contrary, trying to hinder the exp of an already hard job.

I wont quit BST, but I know it will take a while before I get it high lvl, and I know I willl still get no pt invite even if I am looking and pt will always think I steal "their" mobs if they come exping near me (as if their name was printed...).

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:52 pm

You'll just have to exp in areas with enough mobs around to charm and/or not move them around so much.

SE didn't do this to spite the BSTs but to stop the MPKing, obviously it was the easiest option for them to impliment hence them doing it.

All DD jobs (cept BLM I guess) have hard time getting invites, if you want a party you'll make to make one yourself.

Suhraa · Post by **Suhraa** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:15 pm

You are right for the exp areas. We werent disturbing anyone while soloing, now we will come exp in BST parties and take mobs in classic party camps. Believe me, if it comes to that to get decent exp/hour (which we dont want but well, exp is exp), these will be far worst than a train in garlaige citadel. By the way, most BST think they didn't do that against the MPK thing (most MPK not done by BST, and it would be easy to set up a timer of one minute where the mob stay there in inactive behaviour before despawning after being Released by a BST, no ?) : they want BST to be pt oriented. People ask for solo things, they kill the only viable solo job.
Considering the invite stuff, there is a difference between waiting hours (I know that, I have THF 59) and getting no invite at all BECAUSE u r a BST and therefore a solo job.

Congratulations, good bye and take care !

Losfuin · Post by **Losfuin** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:10 pm

I don't know if anyone else has seen, but a lot of BSTs (or at least, a very vocal minority) on the Alla boards have been pissing and whining over this like crazy, saying things like "I'd rather be MPK'd than party with you", and generally, failing to create any goodwill between the general FFXI community, and the BST community. The Main FFXI forum there is full of drama over it, and it's getting silly. Threads such as THIS help no-one.
I've asked BSTs to party before while trying to form groups. No, they weren't LFP, but nor were a lot of the people I've partied with at the time I contacted them. While most people will say {no thanks} {I'm playing solo right now}, I've had some BSTs be very offensive towards me, simply for asking if they wanted to party. And people wonder why BSTs don't get invites. Granted, they were probably not representative of the majority; but, given my experiences, I've learnt it's better to ask a non-LFP MNK or DRK than a non-LFP BST.

Suhraa · Post by **Suhraa** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:44 pm

I agree that a good mood is important for every job, not only BST. With PLD, I get invite in 2 minutes and often get some when not lfp ; with my THF, I can wait for hours before getting that. In my BST ls, most BST already have one or several high lvl jobs, they have suffered from slow pt invite and they know how BST can be enjoyable as solo. And finally, what most BST wants is just still being able to play solo for decent exp. We dont want to MPK people (we never asked for it

) and actually, dont think many BST will look for pt anyway (at least, dont think I will often).

We just ask for one thing : adapt the update so we can still play solo (reduce reward and call beast timer, or adapt the MPK stuff for leave so it wont kill anyone but allows us to go on).

Otherwise, we are fine with the anti-MPK mood.

We just want our solo/mind-my-own-business job back.

PS : I love that job, really, and even that pseudo-nerf will not prevent me to take it to 75 and get the best stuff for it, that's what we all do with jobs we are fond of, despite nerf (see DRG, NIN and RNG)

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:33 am

I personally think you're not looking at the big picture. BSTs don't usually MPK on purpose but there a LOT of them who are very careless with leaving their pets around where ever they please, choosing instead to force parties to deal with it. One party I had in Garlaige Citadel got nearly wiped three or four times in one session, because a BST kept using the beetles to run a hellmine back and forth. Several occasions the Hellmine decided to finally self-destruct near us instead of out in the open, and numerous times we'd be resting from fighting a beetle, only to be attacked by his former pet, forcing us to fight a nearly fully healed beetle when our party is only at half-strength, for no exp. And I've had multiple occasions of such actions. I'm sorry, I realize BSTs are basically solo jobs, but they've gotta learn to take control of their own actions and work with the parties, instead of the attitude of "I'm soloing, therefore I'll do whatever I damn well please."

Suhraa · Post by **Suhraa** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:49 am

Seems u had big problems with the BST on your server. Most of the beast I know (including me) are very careful about that : they dont exp with the same mobs that parties do, and they dont leave their pet in the wild if it is agressive and susceptible to hurt someone. We suffer a lot when we lvl from a bad point of view from parties, even if we do nothing against them. Once, I was exping as THF in yhoator Jungle. A BST was exping alone there, BEFORE we get to camp (near the zone to ifrit cauldron). The leader of my party told us "well, that's a BST, he will steal our mobs, we have to make him leave". 1°) the BST was here before us, 2°) why because he is a BST, he has less right than a pt to exp ? 3°) would u make another pt leave because they r exping as well ?

I wasn't a BST by the time, but dont u think parties also have sometimes a bad attitude also towards BST ?

There is a mini-war between normal jobs and BST. On both sides, some a re careless about the others, but that's no reason to be angry at everyone.

Beside that, I had bad experiences with all jobs, that's more dependent of the character of the player, not of the job.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:07 pm

I'd say a rather large proportion of BSTs on my server are careless around parties, or just in general. Most of which reside in Ifrit's Cauldren, Garlaige Citadel and some in Crawler's Nest.

You may not think it but it is quite hard for SE to change the behavior of a mob in certain circumstances in comparison to what they've done already. Like I said it's the easy option out which SE is usually quite fond of. Think it's everquest that has the mob walk back to where it came from without agro or linking. SE certainly new about this as a GM discussed the options in an interview but clearly was too much work for them to implement.

Kahvi · Post by **Kahvi** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:22 pm

Sugami wrote:Think it's everquest that has the mob walk back to where it came from without agro or linking.

um, i know for a fact that WoW has that mob behavior. the monsters even have limits to how far they will willingly stray from thier spawn point if pulled.

This update in a manner of speaking just made Promy easier. Have a designated person train all the monsters away from the MR before everyone goes to fight it... but you would need one person per Promy "floor" for that task.

Sheala · Post by **Sheala** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:54 am

Square-Enix wrote:

After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location.

and
Suhraa wrote

Leave was used to have only one pet : u get your EM, let him fight (help a bit if u dont get too much hate) then when he is about to die, u Leave him and let him heal while u finish the mob for full exp.

SE changed the effects to reduce MPK. The damage done to beast was an unfortunate side affect. But I think SE was secretly please. Using leave was a trick Beastmithra used to extract more use from a pet then SE intended. Also the pet foods until now have been a joke. Look at what else SE did in this update:

The beastmaster ability “Reward” will now include a “Regen” effect. The amount of HP restored will be determined by the level of the pet and the type of pet food used.

SE is now going to make Beastmithra and others pay for keeping that pet. If you pull that scorpian across Ifrit's Caldrin and keep it around, you have to pay to heal it. Just like you have to pay to bring out a pet. To compensate for the lower xp off Easy Prey and Decent Challenges, SE removed the XP penalty for jug pets. Even summoners have to pay for their avatars in the form of mana per tick.

Good players will use food to enhance their abilities. Mage turn to drinks on top of their food in emergencies. I even keep a stack of Selbina milk when things start to get tough for my healer. I am sorry, I have little sympathy for Beastmithra having to pay a little extra for that special pet.

Beastmasters are feeling like they are totally nerfed now. What they really need to do is learn how to adjust. SE took away heal leave and gave beastmasters regen with food. Beastmaster can still use pets from near buy areas. They just can't walk a monster half way across a zone and expect to xp off tough mobs like they use to. I am currently soloing warrior up to 23 and I know what a pain it is to solo. I am having to make adjustments. These include only going after easy prey and the occasional decent challenge. Using full xp food and milk when ever necessary. Rangers had to learn to stand back near the mages to get the most use out of their bows. Theif have to learn how to pull and SATA to earn their place in parties. SE had to beef up dragoon slightly because the dragoon nerf almost killed the class. Yet Eviticus and others on this forum have shown that a good player can make an effective force.

I'm sure SE sees all this as another correction. Another example is:

An issue wherein the delay between disengaging from an enemy and being able to attack once more not being equal to the delay of the weapon equipped has been addressed.
*This delay is calculated after considering “Haste” and “Slow” effects.

Dark knights use to love to disengage then re-engage the target. This cut down the weapon delay to that of a sword. SE never intended this to be the case. It's not fair to melee with shorter weapon delays. So SE adjusted it. SE stopped Penta-spam. SE made TP-dominate for Samurai main jobs and reduced greatly for samurai sub-jobs. I can see them making the tier II ninja spells ninja only.

In addition to every thing I have already stated ... (When will I learn to shut up

) Instead of trying to kill the only option for solo play, SE has stated that they will continue to try make solo play more viable for most classes. That is why they increased the xp earn from easy prey. Now nearly everyone will have a chance to solo. Mages will still have it hard, but their reduced numbers make it easier for them to get into parties. No I don't hate beastmithra, like them. But I am getting sick of the waining and want the rest of us to have an even break.

P.S. I still believe black mages paper thin defences compensate for the massive amount of damage they do. They don't need to be further nerfed.

Suhraa · Post by **Suhraa** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:09 am

Your statement is quite right, and most BST are cookers to make their own jugs and pet food, it is not a pb of money. The pb is the regen effect is ok when you are my lvl (about 20) but on higher pets with lots of HP it seems the regen effect is negligible even with the best food (I heard, not saw it myself of course). And if they want us to exp from jugs (which I would be quite fond of), they would have to lower the timer : 3 minutes for Reward and 5 minutes for Call Beast. I wouldn't ask for the MPK system to be changed (they wont anyway), but if they could lower a bit the timers, that would be about fine.

And come and play BST, it is still fun.