I so hate the dunes....

[ScarlettPheonix]

bit of a rant here...I apologize in advance.

The reason I hate the dunes?

Something about that sand turns half-way decent players into sun burnt idiots and experienced players into zombies. That place sucks the life out of you.

Here's my story:

I'm now 56RDM/28SMN and decided to go lvl whm a bit until my static gets on~ they're all in England and don't usually get until its late in the evening their time.

I stopped lvling WHM at 15 because I just hate hate hate that job. Love having them in parties, hate being one. Anyway...16WHM today with 1.3k tnl. Head out to Selly, start fishing, get an invite. Its someone I knew slightly who was out lvling his smn. Accept invite. Party gets put together quickly...we head out to the Secret Beach. On the way there someone aggros a Goblin Leecher who decides to invite his Gambler buddy to the party. We die. Oh well, not like I care about exp at this lvl anyway....hp and come back. Leader decides to camp right outside the Secret Beach, fine whatever.

Puller pulls a fly, we're doing fine. Pull again--Goblin Leecher.
....
....
we die again, this time I suggest that we avoid Leechers/Gamblers until everyone is lvl 17. Everyone agrees. We also move camp (gobby were spawning too close to camp)

Move to whitebones, start rebuilding exp. Couple ppl lvl to 17, including me, and we're about to move onto pugs when guess what the same puller decides to bring home?

A goblin leecher. /sigh

Die again, delvl. This is starting to get old.

Pty Ldr says he'll start healing instead of just smning...I double check his sub. I'd just assumed he had subbed whm like most smns do. /rdm...
Oh yay! He can toss in a cure or a dia once a battle...big freakin help there.

Regain lvl.

Ldr says wait...ls ldr on way to pl us. I'm against plers in general but at this point i am more than ready to get out of Hell Beach and move onto Purgatory Island.

His ls ldr arrives, I know this person too. Actually left her ls cause of some issues with her, but whatever. I check her job, thinking its RDM cause last I knew she was one. 40BRD/20RDM

New Puller pulls a Goblin Leecher

I nearly disbanded.....

But I stayed figuring I could at least make sure they (the party) got BarFira and hopefully I could do a Suicidal. Well I go the barfira off, but then the goblin decided to have fun with the WHM while she was casting silence. The tank never really managed to regain control of the gob. "PL" not too much help. Didn't expect much out of her to be honest. A 20RDM doesn't have much to add to a party from the outside. Cure II, yay, I get that too. All she was doing was screwing up the hate control.

Die and delvl.

PL: "oh! wasn't fast enough! Sorry!"

Me: yea, uh-huh. NP.

PL: Want me to find a raise for you?

Me: I'll just hp.

I return to selly and after wishing the party luck I disband. Get on the ferry and check my exp. 16WHM 400 tnl. I was too drained to even sigh.

I went out there fully expecting to have to zone a couple of times, maybe even die. Didn't even really mind the multiple deaths. it happens.
What got me was that every single time we ran into trouble, a goblin leecher was involved. We could hardly handle pugils and they wanted to fight leechers???? Which I mentioned the 3rd time my face met the sand.

Dying cause someone is still learning their job, fine. Dying cause of an attack that can't be avoided, fine. Dying because you can't listen/read to advice? OMFG, gods save me now please!

/endrant

So thats my Hell Beach story. Whats yours?

[Baketsu]

I really hate the dunes too, it seems to be the area that seprates the dumbasses from the good players, you know if you get a good dunes party that it is as good as gold, I think there is a VGCATS comic about it. I have had more fun getting to level 14 or 15 at Ghelshba and Fort Ghelshba beating ont he orcs solo or as a Duo and then going to the dunes because there are more dummies at the dunes from 10-15 than there are from 15-20. Well that is my experiance lately...

[Talis Kitsue]

you shoulda gotten a party with alot of ratt and gone to fight worms in korroloka (sp?) tunnel
i had suggested that to my party when we all hit around 16 when i was starting to lvl my rng on bismark, since i had already taken rng on valefor up that high i knew that would be the fastest and easyest way, the party thought i was an idiot and just stayed in dunes, me wanting to lvl faster got a party of whm and the rest rngs, needless to say we all hit 20 in a couple hours, i looked back at the party members that were in dunes (now disbanded and lfg) still had only lvled once in all that time..
{/grin}
lol so as for bad dunes party's never had once since i was always pullin ^^;

[Kyuiily]

I don't hate the dunes that much for example I was lvl my smn and got a group and there was a PLD/WAR, RDM/WHM, RDM/BLM, RDM/WHM, and me and we fought gobs, lizzies one after the other with no true whm or pler and had a blast, I just hate the dunes for the long waits between groups.

[Karou Ariyen]

I Like Tehm Noobies and I cannot lie you other sistahs can't deny, when an idjit zones a mob he can't take, I just sit and laugh~

[Yukira]

I like the dunes and newbies too!

[Josiejo]

Leechers aren't really too hard at level 16. One mistake people make here is to Silence them. Sure, it works well enough once the tank(s) can handle the melee attacks, but if melee is draining too much HP, best to just let the sucker cast and waste time it could be using to hit your tanks again. Bar- spells will help againt MP damage, and WHM should be able to keep the tank up as long as they Provoke as soon as it's available.

I like the Dunes in general, since it takes so much longer to level without 200+ exp per fight. I'll take a bad party and try to teach them how to be a better one before I give up on them... anything to keep the exp flowing.

[Janeth]

Well, I've always liked the Dunes. Most of my parties were pretty good, even if power levelers were a little too abundant sometimes. (Once I was in a party that had 3 of them, and 2 WHM's, one of which was me. ><) Can't remember any examples of good parties, there were just too many of them. I do, however, have one astonishingly bad party story, so I guess I'll post that here. ^^

I posted this already in another topic, I believe. But that was when I was new to this forum, and it is an absolute mess, so I'm more than happy to repost here. Also, the previous one had a statement that was in favor of power levelers, but now I know this linkshell is prejudiced against them. I'm in favor of power leveling, provided said power leveler does not prevent anyone else from doing their jobs. This means: Allow the tank to voke off you, and do not provide more healing than is necessary (unless the party has no WHM). I know how to power level in this way, and so I don't have any problem with GOOD power levelers. I do, however, have a problem with multiple power levelers, no matter how good they may be.

...But I digress. Sorry, I tend to do that a lot...^^; Anyway, the party was levels 15-18 (Yes, I know the level gap is too big. Originally it was 16-18, but someone deleveled), camping at the secret beach. Some of the party members had just been invited, so they were not at camp yet. They headed to camp, and whenever someone went through the cave, they would get aggro from every single bat in there. (Don't tell me those bats can't be dodged because they're sound aggro and in a small cave. My brother regularly dodges mobs like this.) Now, whenever we tried to fight the bats, someone would always die and then they'd have to come back through the cave and we'd have to fight the bats all over again. This repeated seemingly endlessly, over and over again, until someone deleveled and we decided to go to the outpost.

Then we waited and waited for everyone to get there. People kept getting aggro on the way, and it took forever to get everyone assembled. When we were all finally there, we tried fighting gobs. The first gob was only {Very tough}, but the tank wasn't voking. We kept telling him to voke, and eventually he did so, but only about once a fight. The EXP from the VT's was no good, but whenever we tried an IT, someone always died... I have no idea what might have been wrong with this party. It might have been better with a smaller level gap, and/or a tank that knew how to tank.

A few other statements I'd like to make in reply to things other people have said:

Pty Ldr says he'll start healing instead of just smning...I double check his sub. I'd just assumed he had subbed whm like most smns do. /rdm...
Oh yay! He can toss in a cure or a dia once a battle...big freakin help there.

I happen to be a SMN/RDM. Is that a problem? I hope not. I'm not going to post my rant on subjob here, I'm sure you don't want to hear it. Besides, it's more about RDM/SMN then SMN/RDM. If you haven't read it, you should know that dissing my subjob is my pet peeve. The one and only thing that makes me mad is dissing my subjob. I'm sorry, but I don't care how "well-intentioned" your "friendly advice" is, it hurts me all the same.

Everyone, literally everyone, who reads this says something like "I'm not 'dissing'...I just don't think that's such a good idea." Well, I've been trying ever since then to think of a better word to describe it...and I couldn't. So, for the purposes of this post, "dissing" refers to any attempt to try to tell me I need a new subjob. Sorry if I come across as bossy...I'm not trying to be bossy, I'm not usually this way...it's just this is my pet peeve, and it really does make me mad. ^^ Oh, sorry...I've posted a third of the rant already...^^;

But anyway, I have been main healer as SMN/RDM numerous times. In good parties, getting good EXP. In the Dunes! I advertized in my search comment, "I can main heal just as well as a SMN/WHM. The difference? I can also nuke." And at that level, I could. Either job combination would have Cure, but neither would have Cure II yet. I used Mind+ gear, like I do now for my WHM. I forget how much I had on SMN, but I have +10 on WHM. Once I partied with a SMN/WHM. He was asked to main heal, and he seemed to imply that he didn't like it. He wasn't very good at it either (even though he must have leveled WHM...go figure). So I attempted to pick up the slack, and soon, I was casting more Cures than him.

Sadly, by Qufim, my potential as a main healer fell behind. The WHMs had Cure III, but I still only had Cure I. Even the SMN/WHMs had more Cures then me. Now, I never leveled SMN in Qufim due to lack of fame for avatar fights, but I have had the opportunity while leveling THF (Still with a RDM sub) to be in a party with a SMN/RDM and no other healer. I will forever cite this party as "the party where the tank had Cure II...and the healer didn't." I've also been in a party where I was backup healer as THF...but that's another story. Anyway, the party with the SMN/RDM worked fairly well, the tank and the SMN did their share of healing. Even I helped.

As for alternate leveling spots, I generally like those, too. ^^ I really like Buburimu...it's just no one parties there. No offense, but I don't really like the maze...I went there as THF once, ran out of arrows really fast, and the battles took forever... I think it might be more fun as a mage, though. I should try that sometime. ^^ As for Korroloka, I've never been there. Last time I checked, I'm not allowed there...

[Shirai]

Leechers aren't really too hard at level 16. One mistake people make here is to Silence them. Sure, it works well enough once the tank(s) can handle the melee attacks, but if melee is draining too much HP, best to just let the sucker cast and waste time it could be using to hit your tanks again. Bar- spells will help againt MP damage, and WHM should be able to keep the tank up as long as they Provoke as soon as it's available.

Bar spells don't have much effect on Goblin Leechers since they're whm class and only cast Banish, Dia and the occasional Cure II/III.
Since there's no Barlight it's no use, and Light Ballad is a higher song if you have a brd.
Barfira is a lvl 20 spell (I think) so there's not much to bar against fighting gobs in the Dunes.

I like the Dunes in general, since it takes so much longer to level without 200+ exp per fight. I'll take a bad party and try to teach them how to be a better one before I give up on them... anything to keep the exp flowing.

Dunes go fast enough for me, 2-3 days and I'm outa there.
Even at my lvl I don't fight much for 200+exp.
I fight VT to IT mostly chaining those like mad, it's less exp per kill but it comes a lot faster.

In general I like the dunes when not PLed.
You get to train your job with very limited resources in a group for the first time and if you do it right you get to learn how to do it properly.
Newbies are fun to play with and with a few experienced players along the way it's not that bad.
The dunes is still one of the most fun places to level for me.

[Meowmixer]

The dunes I'm able to stay alive with mininal deaths.. it's qufim that gets me. I seem to die there the most for unknown reasons of idiots that don't know how to provoke and I have to, to save the mages asses so the rest can stay alive and keep some xp flowing, but they usually sit around like idiots.

[Josiejo]

Bar spells don't have much effect on Goblin Leechers since they're whm class and only cast Banish, Dia and the occasional Cure II/III. Since there's no Barlight it's no use, and Light Ballad is a higher song if you have a brd. Barfira is a lvl 20 spell (I think) so there's not much to bar against fighting gobs in the Dunes.

Barfira is level 17, and before that there's Barpoisonra, Barstonra, Barsleepra (sucks), Barwatera, Barparalyzra and Baraera. Leechers can cast Paralyze (which can be countered with Paralyna much more effectively than Barparalyzra), and Gamblers are BLMs, and are just as common in the Dunes. So, still better to take a chance and attempt to protect yourself vs. an element/status spell than not. Also, it's a good excuse for WHMs to level Enhancing Magic, which is worth the MP to cast Bar- spells at that level.

[Baketsu]

Qufim really sucks and i go to Kazaam when I hit 24 and never look back!!!

[sakono]

i've tryed to hepl whms' in dunes... sence i got my whm up to 31 i'm pretty good. found the best macros to use and stuff.

most poeple when i give em the macro thats easiest for whm to use healing they don't care or say the don't have room and arnt going to redo any of there macros they have..

well that never turns out good as they cure clowly.. having to cycle throught everything to get to the right person to heal em..


but there are some whm or rdm that lsiten and are thankfull for the help i offer and i just ask them to tell others that and i like helping other healers^^


i also have blm to 41... still geting the hang of it as i steal hate form the tank alot..
though i get yelled at if i slwo down my casting which is already to fast..

[ScarlettPheonix]

Thank you to everyone who replied!

I was using this thread to vent about my horrible party that day. I'd hoped that others would share their horrible party experiences as well. I probably should've named the thread something else. /sigh

After this trip thru Hell Beach with WHM I honestly have to say that it sucks to level there. Four out of five parties there insisted on having a powerleveler and I have to say that its ruining the party experience. Being carried thru those levels doesn't teach the skills that are needed later on.

Yes, a well organized party thats working well together can handle a goblin leecher in the dunes. As I said in my original post, that party could barely survive beach pugils, and they thought they could handle a goblin leecher? Um....no.

Just looking at gob leechers vs beach pugils levels I can understand why ppl might say "oh we can take them!" :
Gob Leechers (22-25)
Beach Pugil (23-26)

Pugs are slightly stronger but I honestly think they're easier to kill, and they certianly were that day.

All Gobs have Bomb Toss, which can be devestating to an entire party.
Screwdriver isn't as bad, only one person gets hammered. A healer who's expecting Screwdriver can heal that pretty easily, especially if theres a back up tank ready to provoke off the main.

Most gob leechers heal themselves. Having one use Cure III at 1/3 health is not fun. Silence doesn't always stick and my enfeebling is capped out. I don't appreciate having to do a Suicidal when I've suggested we avoid that mob. More often then not that day having a Goblin Leecher invited to camp was the reason why I had to hit that damned Suicide macro.

I'm starting to feel that newbies are getting babied too much. My first trip thru the dunes was a learning experience, I learned, I made mistakes, I died. I wasn't powerlevel'd. Now it seems that every party needcs to be powerlevel'd just to handle the same mobs that a party should be able to handle on its own.

Since the other day's hellish experience I've decided to simply offer advice on mobs to fight, general partying hints and do my job. If they pull something that gets me killed well, I'll just use my old "I leave a party when.." rule. I stopped using the rule after I level'd past Garlaige Citadel the first time and I hate having to resurrect it. Simply put, I leave when the WHM dies. Its diva behavior but if they can't keep the mages alive, I have no desire to stay.

I learned my lesson the other day in trying to be a helpful experienced player thats been thru this a few times. Not anymore, I just want my level and I'm out. I hate being so bitter, but I simply don't care enough any more. The ploobs will either learn their jobs when there no long any pl's willing to bail them out or they'll quit cause the game is suddendly "too hard."

And....I'm starting to repeat myself so I'll just stop here.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

How to avoid the Dunes.

Tharongi Canyon at 9

Maze 10 - 16

Tunnel 15 - 21

Or Bubu Peninsulia 12 - low 20s. The biggest Pugs there are level 29.

How to survive the Dunes if you canot avoid them.

No Crabs till everyone is 12 - 14, then the Oassis.

Level 16 Tank for fish.

Level 17 - 19 Gobbies.

Level 18 - 21 Secret Beach.

Going to the Secret Beach (the porrest kept secret in all of Vanad'iel) before 18 is Hubris, pure and simple.

[Crispleaf]

A few other statements I'd like to make in reply to things other people have said:

Pty Ldr says he'll start healing instead of just smning...I double check his sub. I'd just assumed he had subbed whm like most smns do. /rdm...
Oh yay! He can toss in a cure or a dia once a battle...big freakin help there.

I happen to be a SMN/RDM. Is that a problem? I hope not. I'm not going to post my rant on subjob here, I'm sure you don't want to hear it. Besides, it's more about RDM/SMN then SMN/RDM. If you haven't read it, you should know that dissing my subjob is my pet peeve. The one and only thing that makes me mad is dissing my subjob. I'm sorry, but I don't care how "well-intentioned" your "friendly advice" is, it hurts me all the same.

Everyone, literally everyone, who reads this says something like "I'm not 'dissing'...I just don't think that's such a good idea." Well, I've been trying ever since then to think of a better word to describe it...and I couldn't. So, for the purposes of this post, "dissing" refers to any attempt to try to tell me I need a new subjob. Sorry if I come across as bossy...I'm not trying to be bossy, I'm not usually this way...it's just this is my pet peeve, and it really does make me mad. ^^ Oh, sorry...I've posted a third of the rant already...^^;

But anyway, I have been main healer as SMN/RDM numerous times. In good parties, getting good EXP. In the Dunes! I advertized in my search comment, "I can main heal just as well as a SMN/WHM. The difference? I can also nuke." And at that level, I could. Either job combination would have Cure, but neither would have Cure II yet. I used Mind+ gear, like I do now for my WHM. I forget how much I had on SMN, but I have +10 on WHM. Once I partied with a SMN/WHM. He was asked to main heal, and he seemed to imply that he didn't like it. He wasn't very good at it either (even though he must have leveled WHM...go figure). So I attempted to pick up the slack, and soon, I was casting more Cures than him.

I'm all for strange and unusual subjobs (I was an axe and sword wielding drk/nin in Yuhtunga Jungle not so long ago... I got a lot of strange looks ).

I've played as a smn/rdm and smn/whm... they are probably the only two reasonable sub-job options you can have.

The only advantages you gain with a red mage subjob is Fast Cast at 30 and en-spells at 32. And, of course, there's Phalanx and Dispel in the 60s.

Red mages aren't very good at "nuking" to begin with. Trying to cast black magic as a smn/rdm is a mistake. Other than Dispel, it will have little, if any, effect on the monsters you fight because you're fighting with half the skill level of a normal red mage. It might not be so bad to start at low levels, but this gets increasingly worse the higher you go.

The other problem with a red mage sub-job is that you don't get status cures like poisona and paralyna. You also get defensive spells like Blink and Stoneskin much later than white mage (you can't always rely on Aerial Armor and Earthen Ward). As well, you get Cure 2 and 3 much sooner with a white mage sub-job. Divine Seal and Curaga are nice to have too, especially in fights with exploding monsters. Not to mention, a white mage sub-job increases your mp slightly more and for summoners, it's the only attribute that matters.

It's not to say that a red mage sub-job is horrible. In the 30s at Garlaige Citadel, where you don't need to worry about status cures, I'd say a red mage sub-job was even better than a white mage sub-job because of Fast Cast and Enthunder if you wanted to join the fight (and if you do join the fight, swap out the mp staff for a military one to make your hits count... I presently use a Himmel Stock for mp and trade it for an Oak Pole +1 when my mp falls far enough below its max). In Crawler's Nest, though, people will want Poisona to cure the poison attacks of the crawlers, and they'll expect a white mage sub-job, given the choice.

Ultimately, you can't go wrong with a white mage sub-job, and you'll find that it's generally the preferred sub-job of xp parties.

[ScarlettPheonix]

Just a few words to Janeth:

I have nothing against unusual sub-jobs. I've played as RDM/SMN since my smn was lvl 15. I honestly hate playing as a whm and I tried my hardest to use a different sub for smn when I first got it. I tried /blm and that didn't help much. My elemental "nukes" were hitting for less than half of what the Rdms spells were doing. I never considered subbing /rdm for the simple reason that everything that makes /rdm a useful sub doesnt come into consideration until well past lvl 30.

In the dunes it may not seem to have mattered that much, even if the smn had been helping heal the entire time and had /whm subbed he still would've only had Cure I available. But he wasn't and when he finally started to help out that Cure didn't make much of a dent. He couldn't even help by taking over some of the barspells, protectra or poisona duties.

I find it very very hard to believe any smn/xxx could've been the only healer in the dunes. Cure I doesn't stretch very far and if your summoning at the same time your mp runs out very very quickly. if I'm wrong and you did it and were good at being Main healer then congratulations! Not many ppl can manage that!

[Crispleaf]

I find it very very hard to believe any smn/xxx could've been the only healer in the dunes. Cure I doesn't stretch very far and if your summoning at the same time your mp runs out very very quickly. if I'm wrong and you did it and were good at being Main healer then congratulations! Not many ppl can manage that!

I've done it.

Sure, you don't have cure 2, but you can manage with cure 1 if you keep on top of healing. You get Poisona at 12 and Protectra at 14. And if you only bring Carby out to set up a Distortion skillchain, you'll have more mp than a white mage healer.

[Kintrra]

On that note, as a SMN12 I was main healer for a party. That had a PL. >.>

I wasn't supposed to be the main healer, but I was. Heck, lemme go quote my thread in Alexander section.

Alright, I know we've had problems with the people raised on PLs. But what about the PLs themselves? Me and Lueke just got done with one ignorant little ass of a WHM Taru PL (Lowlevel be the name and I'm personally suggesting all MP members tell the little football to bugger off) who was (according to himself) drunk, and was so busy {shout}ing the Numa Numa song that I ended up doing more healing as a SMN12 than the PL did, or the WHM (Who was looking at the PL as getting him off the hook for healing) for that matter. And after that, the WHM was still gonna give the PL the fire crystals that he wanted for doing the PL. Once Lu and I started both lotting on the crystals and the WHM asked what we were doing, we rather pointedly told him that I was doing more healing than the PL was, and we weren't giving him our crystals for him to stand there and not do his job. We also promptly disbanded.

Needless to say, I only did this for a short while, but we were pulling PL type mobs for our level, and I still kept everything healed up with the occasionaly bit of help from the WHM and the PL. So ehh...SMN/WHM healer useless? Nah. ^.~

[Janeth]

Thanks everyone who replied to my post. ^^ You have shown me among the most civilized replies to my subjob rant I've ever seen. And now, without further adieu, I will attempt to reply to your posts (in the order they were posted) with an equal degree of civility. I'm really sorry if I fail, please keep in mind that I am not trying to offend. ^^

ScarlettPheonix wrote:
Four out of five parties there insisted on having a powerleveler and I have to say that its ruining the party experience.

It may not have sounded like it in my first post, but I wholeheartedly agree. ^^ That is a higher incidence of power levelers than I've ever seen. I'm alright with someone bringing a power leveler with them in hopes that they'll level faster (as I said before...only if they're a GOOD power leveler), but insisting on one? Refusing to start fighting till everyone combs their linkshell, their friends list, and whatever else they can think of, not to mention shouting, for a power leveler? I agree. That is just retarded.

ScarlettPheonix wrote:
Being carried thru those levels doesn't teach the skills that are needed later on.

Which is why I emphasized being a "good" power leveler. ^^ Meaning, one that allows (or forces) the WHM to heal and the tank to tank, someone who plays more the role of backup healer (unless the party has no other proper healer), and emergency link-killer. =P

Crispleaf wrote:
The only advantages you gain with a red mage subjob is Fast Cast at 30 and en-spells at 32. And, of course, there's Phalanx and Dispel in the 60s.

Versatility is the only advantage I need. Sorry if that isn't quite what you mean by "advantage"...but if it isn't, then I have to say, advantages aren't everything.

Crispleaf wrote:
Red mages aren't very good at "nuking" to begin with. Trying to cast black magic as a smn/rdm is a mistake. Other than Dispel, it will have little, if any, effect on the monsters you fight because you're fighting with half the skill level of a normal red mage. It might not be so bad at low levels, but this gets increasingly worse the higher you go.

Thanks for the tip. ^^ As I said, I only took SMN to level 20, and as you said, it might not be so bad at low levels. Also, that search comment was intended more to emphasize versatility than to say that I would actually be nuking. I actually barely ever nuked. ^^;

Crispleaf wrote:
The other problem with a red mage sub-job is that you don't get status cures like poisona and paralyna. You also get defensive spells like Blink and Stoneskin much later than white mage (you can't always rely on Aerial Armor and Earthen Ward). As well, you get Cure 2 and 3 much sooner with a white mage sub-job. Divine Seal and Curaga are nice to have too, especially in fights with exploding monsters. Not to mention, a white mage sub-job increases your mp slightly more and for summoners, it's the only attribute that matters.

Status cures and MP...getting everything later than WHM... I know! ; ; I've been struggling with those problems my entire career... Which is why I am now the {Conserve MP} {Master}. =P Seriously, that's what RDM is. They have many different kinds of spells, but they get most of them later than other jobs. Jack of all trades, master of none. I don't quite see those as problems, just natural downsides. For example, you wouldn't say "snm shuldnt sub whm cuz thn thy cant mele good!!1!" (Translation: Summoner shouldn't sub White mage because then they can't melee very well.) Not saying anyone on this forum has spelling that atrocious...just trying to emphasize the stupidity of the statement. ^^

ScarlettPheonix wrote:
I find it very very hard to believe any smn/xxx could've been the only healer in the dunes. Cure I doesn't stretch very far and if your summoning at the same time your mp runs out very very quickly. if I'm wrong and you did it and were good at being main healer then congratulations! Not many ppl can manage that!

Yeah, I really was main healer, and pretty good at it, too. I know that's pretty hard for a SMN/RDM, but I didn't know it was so hard even SMN/WHMs have problems with it. ^^; Thanks a bunch for the congratulations. I'm proud of having recieved a compliment like this. Can I have permission to quote this to future SMN/RDM dissers? =P

And thanks so much to everyone here who are tolerant of unusual subs. ^^
P.S. How do you quote a specific person? As you can see, I haven't quite figured it out. ^^;

[Crispleaf]

I'm not against someone choosing to play a smn/rdm, but I thought I would point out the differences between that and smn/whm and also point out what you might expect others want in a summoner.

A red mage sub-job often works out well when you're playing solo for the quick recast of summons, greater durability in melee, and en-spells, especially if you take care in choosing to fight monsters that won't debilitate you with poison and such (or you at least remember to bring some antidotes with you).

In parties, Fast Cast can help you get your Avatar out in time to make it for a magic burst where a white mage sub-job would be too slow.

The red mage sub-job does have it's limitations, but if you can make it's advantages shine, more power to you.

It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If you find this fun, then you must be doing something right

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

especially if you take care in choosing to fight monsters that won't debilitate you with poison and such (or you at least remember to bring some antidotes with you).

Crisp, Crawlers taught me to carry Antidotes ever so long ago. I have them with me always, even as WHM. I cannot immagine going ANYWHERE without Antidote and Echo Drops. I often wonder why there are people without Antidote or Mages without Echo Drops.

[Kintrra]

Probably because Antidotes were 5k a stack last time I checked the Alexander Windurst AH. >.> That's a new armor set for a low level job, which is usually the only time you really need them, since there won't be a WHM available.

[Crispleaf]

Crisp, Crawlers taught me to carry Antidotes ever so long ago. I have them with me always, even as WHM. I cannot immagine going ANYWHERE without Antidote and Echo Drops. I often wonder why there are people without Antidote or Mages without Echo Drops.

I always carry a stack of echo drops with me and I encourage all mages to do the same. You never know when you might get silenced. A mage that can't cast spells is of little help...

As for being poisoned without Poisona... a little trick is to cast Stoneskin or Earthen Ward on yourself... and you can heal even while poisoned. This also works for Dia, Rasp, and other such annoying spells that damage you over time.

[ScarlettPheonix]

lol I think that was one of the first things I learned with stoneskin when I first got it....very very useful trick.

Army's Paeon for Bard will halt the DoT as well. You still won't be able to heal but at least you won't die from long lasting crawler poison if your really hurt.

Also if your fighting the undead or any mob that has an Asorb HP attack stoneskin will prevent them from getting that HP from you.

[JediKitsune]

Crisp, Crawlers taught me to carry Antidotes ever so long ago. I have them with me always, even as WHM. I cannot immagine going ANYWHERE without Antidote and Echo Drops. I often wonder why there are people without Antidote or Mages without Echo Drops.

I always carry a stack of echo drops with me and I encourage all mages to do the same. You never know when you might get silenced. A mage that can't cast spells is of little help...

As for being poisoned without Poisona... a little trick is to cast Stoneskin or Earthen Ward on yourself... and you can heal even while poisoned. This also works for Dia, Rasp, and other such annoying spells that damage you over time.

There's also another fun trick you can do to keep from dying from whatever sort of HP-draining effect you have. Go find an NPC, preferrably one that prompts a dialogue box or says multiple lines of stuff, and just sit in mid-conversation with them (not hitting enter to let them keep talking or finish talking). I'm somewhat sure that the poison/dia/whatever timer still goes, but your HP won't drop while you're talking. All I know is that I've been on low HP with poison, talked to the outpost guy in Ronfaure, left it there for a minute or two, then finally exit conversation only to have poison wear off the moment after.

[Nobodyreal]

It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If you find this fun, then you must be doing something right ;)

Now if we can just make more people understand!

[Karou Ariyen]

how can you enjoy valkrum dunes in fun when idiots suck it out?

[Kintrra]

And bring really damn dumb PLs with them. XD

[ScarlettPheonix]

oh gods yes....I'm still in therapy for that "Power-leveler" who tried to pl my party as a 40BRD/20RDM.