MithraPride

Ok, we know that that there are things in the game that drain away Gil into a abyss. These things include Chocofare, ship fare, Bazaar fees in jeuno, and ariship fare. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had any addition ideas for gil sinks.


Gil sink Idea #1: A nomand moogle in mhuara and Selbin that charges 500 gil to change job and sub job. and changes for other mog house purposes.

Gil sink Idea #2: A Moogle NPC in the main cities that will allow you to take items outta your safe for a fee and as long as your home country is in control at the time.

How about a fee at any outpost or flag to be teleported directly to a town? And of course, if your country owns the region, you get cheaper fare. I'm getting to the point where I feel WHM teleports aren't even convenient... I just want to go directly to a town of choice without having to walk/choco. Especially when the alternative is having to log out in an Outdoors or Dungeon area.

Gil sinks.....

The Gold Saucer. Buy gaming Chips with Gil, win in Chips, no exchange of Chips for Gil, only for Prizes. The prizes can easily be some of the hardly obtainable and ridiculously overpriced items we all want. Of course some people will just buy chips to get the items rather than play the games, but that is not a bd thing.

Chocobo racing and breeding. Of course, you can't just RIDE such fragle and valuble birds, they need special care. Expensive speical care. Expensive conditioning food. Expensive stables. Expensive raceing saddles.

Items that must be purchased from NPCs, not quested nor crafted, just bought. Items for sale that are needed in Crafting, but are in short supply and expensive. Kind of like how the Goldsmith Shop stocks colored Rocks.

The Guild point system is the best Gil sink so far.

Tsybil wrote:The Guild point system is the best Gil sink so far.

Ahh, I was just going to say that.

My idea for a gil sink would be an NPC in Jeuno that for 10k gives you Coffer/Treasure Key Finder support that last for 2 hours or something. Kind of like the synthesis support for crafting. Once he gives it to you, you get a little icon and for the next X amount of time your chances of finding the key are increased.

To create a sink hole you have to provide a service or item that a large group of people are going to willingly pay for. Like the guilds offering items that you can only get through them. If you simply alter an already existing system you will only piss people off.

Tsybil also wrote:Chocobo racing and breeding. Of course, you can't just RIDE such fragle and valuble birds, they need special care. Expensive speical care. Expensive conditioning food. Expensive stables. Expensive raceing saddles.

I've been an advocate for a new guild now for almost a year. That new guild being "Chocobo Breeding". Not only would millions upon million of gil leave the economy, it would draw a lot of players into (or back into) the game. And of course with a new guild comes an increased need of sub craft skills and more recipes for all the other guilds. I think everybody wins on this deal.

Actually, Guild Points don't mean much to people who don't bother crafting. Oh, not to mention you have to get to like level 38 in any craft to start gaining them. The only people with that kind of time and money on their hands are usually high level players waiting for invites in Jeuno. I suppose maybe that's who that particular gil sink is designed for, but there isn't much incentive for lower-level players to get involved, unless they just love crafting.

And guild points really aren't much of a gilsink anyway. If anything, they just help drive up the prices of items on the AH. You're not giving the gil to the NPC, you're buying stuff on the AH and giving the stuff to the NPC.

Nobodyreal wrote:And guild points really aren't much of a gilsink anyway. If anything, they just help drive up the prices of items on the AH. You're not giving the gil to the NPC, you're buying stuff on the AH and giving the stuff to the NPC.

Well, that all depends on how the item was made that was put on the AH. Food ingreds are bought from NPCs for the most part, so I'd say that the cooking guild is a gil sink in most cases. But you are correct with the other guilds.

I'd have to say the biggest gil sink in FFXI ATM is the AH taxes.

Nobodyreal wrote:And guild points really aren't much of a gilsink anyway. If anything, they just help drive up the prices of items on the AH. You're not giving the gil to the NPC, you're buying stuff on the AH and giving the stuff to the NPC.

First of all, no, I don't think the earning of Guild Points is the greatest sink hole in the game but it is a significant one but, I think it's a bigger sink hole then people think. The problem is that people look at from a shallow point of view. Please think about it a little more.

(A) First things first. By turning in items a person earns gil points. With these points there is nothing that a person can buy with these points that can be introduced into the market. In other words Guild Points do not have a market value nor can they buy items that do. All money spent on them is gone, all items turned in are gone. To buy all the key items that a single guild offers the average person will spend about 2-3 million.

(B) Every time somebody turns in anything to the guilds for guild points, whether it is from an NPC or AH or crafted or whatever, that person is taking gil (directly or indirectly) out of the economy. (Items don't magically appear on the AH, they have to come from somewhere.) These items had a value. When a person turns in an item it comes from one of three places.
(a) They buy it from a vendor. This is usually the cheapest way to earn guild points and what most people strive to do. If a crafter buys the item required from a vendor the gil leaves the game and shortly thereafter the item is lost as well and never sees the light of the market. This one should be obvious. 98% of the items I've turned have come from vendors. Most of the crafters I know do the same.
(b) They buy the item from the AH. (God forbid since this is usually gives the worse gil per guild point ratio and most crafter rarely do this unless they are lazy and don’t want to make the item themselves at cost.) All items in the AH had to have a posting fee paid (gil lost). Some items on the AH came from NPC originally (gil lost). This creates a sort of economic vacuum, meaning that there is now a need for this item. Lets say if I take all of the bronze swords out of the AH and give them to an NPC. All of those swords are now gone. Now let's say a certain person wants a Bronze Sword. The only person that sells them is a vendor (unless somebody is stupid enough to spend 2-3k to make a sword that sells for 500 gil; but even if that is the case no new gil enters the economy only more is loss). Somebody will come along, buy the swords from the vendor (gil lost), post them on the AH (more gil lost) and the cycle continues.
(c) They make the items themselves. This usually happens if it's cheaper to make the item or a vendor doesn't sell the item. No matter what I buy I'm encouraging gil to be lost from our market (see reason b above). If I buy the materials from a vendor, the gil is gone (see a); if the items come from the AH then these are all items that have had fees paid on them and in some cases the item came from NPC purchases (again see b above). Let’s go a step further. I'm a smith; I use a lot of ore and ingots. A heavy portion of these items come from mining. The cheapest way to get pickaxes is to buy them from ... dun dun dun da ... a vendor (gil lost). The same principle applies to the other crafts.

All of these ways and at every step of the process they are removing gil from the economy. No new gil is being entered in the economy during any of these steps.



Now to address Nobodyreal's commit. I don't see how this has any lasting effect on the AH prices. If the item is more expensive to buy from the AH then it is to make, they'll make it themselves . But if a crafter can make an item for a profit then the AH will be full of them and there won't be any profit to be made off that item anyways . If the item is cheaper on then AH then it is to make then it obviously came from another source (like an NPC vendor) therefore the crafter will just go buy their own . If it's an item that can only be bought in a limited amount from the NPC the price is going to be jacked anyways, therefore the gil to guild point ratio is going to be too high therefore the crafter will just wait until tomorrow for an easier, cheaper target .

This a gilsink that no one has mentioned yet, but it's doing dynamis. For those that never entered before, you have to pay 1 million gil to a goblin npc to get the item to enter dynamis.

Tsybil wrote:...The Guild point system is the best Gil sink so far.

Yeah it is. 5:1 gil to guild point ratio is about the max I'm willing to spend and even then the 70k items run me about 350k each >.>

I have the ultimate gil sink, GIVE IT ALL TO MEEEEEEE, and you will recieve a nice smile and a huggle in return ^^

kashell wrote:This a gilsink that no one has mentioned yet, but it's doing dynamis. For those that never entered before, you have to pay 1 million gil to a goblin npc to get the item to enter dynamis.

It's a good gilsink, but overall I think a inside-game gilsink is impossible. If things cost 1 million to do, people will simply sell their items for more money to have that 1 million.

The ultimate gilsink is to take SOE's approach and buy gil out of the game, but instead of selling it simply have it vanish. Perhaps give players free months instead of actual money.. That's really the only way to handle our constant inflation. Would it increase gilselling or hurt the game in some way? I'm not sure. The market is definately already well established... but if they didn't have to be sneaky about it, it might be more rampant. Square would also have to find a way to deter people from making a living off it, perferrably controlled in-game with GMs. I do think that would be a major influence on the economy.

Firemyst wrote:

kashell wrote:This a gilsink that no one has mentioned yet, but it's doing dynamis. For those that never entered before, you have to pay 1 million gil to a goblin npc to get the item to enter dynamis.

It's a good gilsink, but overall I think a inside-game gilsink is impossible. If things cost 1 million to do, people will simply sell their items for more money to have that 1 million.

The ultimate gilsink is to take SOE's approach and buy gil out of the game, but instead of selling it simply have it vanish. Perhaps give players free months instead of actual money.. That's really the only way to handle our constant inflation. Would it increase gilselling or hurt the game in some way? I'm not sure. The market is definately already well established... but if they didn't have to be sneaky about it, it might be more rampant. Square would also have to find a way to deter people from making a living off it, perferrably controlled in-game with GMs. I do think that would be a major influence on the economy.

It would have to be most likely a one time deal (maybe for one month only). If they made gil buying a constant thing, you will have "gil sellers" running rampid on the servers.

Also... I think that fixing crystal prices would go a long way to crub the rocketing prices on the AH. For many low tier items, half of the expense is the crystal itself. It really puts the shaft to low level crafters when crystal prices are so high.

I contribute to changing that, Fire Crystals run 5k on diabolos, I dropped them to 1k to 1.5k on diabolos in sandy... and people hate me for it... hate me for what? Stopping gil selling tactics on crystals? thats my income yes, but i farm more then enough to lower the price. Why am I the bad guy there for trying to lower the econmy curve on items people use for crafting?

KarouKaniyashia wrote:I contribute to changing that, Fire Crystals run 5k on diabolos, I dropped them to 1k to 1.5k on diabolos in sandy... and people hate me for it... hate me for what? Stopping gil selling tactics on crystals? thats my income yes, but i farm more then enough to lower the price. Why am I the bad guy there for trying to lower the econmy curve on items people use for crafting?

The other side is you are lowering the prices people get for what they sell. As more people sell crystals than buy them, more people will think you are a bad guy for lowering them than than will thank you for it.

On Garuda, I use most of the crystals I loot from my prey, and buy a fair ammount. On Migardsomor, I have only done the smalest bit of cooking, but have 33K already, mostly from Crystals and silk. (People there will pay up to 7K/12 Fire crystals and up to 3K for 1 [!!!!] silk.)

Ya I know, Its not really right imo i mean when i first started our server had fire crystals at that, now its gone up, I know its not really good but its not really bad, I tend to sell off crystals I dont use, and keep it around 3-3.5k most ppl dont mind that.

Dukuji wrote:Now to address Nobodyreal's commit. I don't see how this has any lasting effect on the AH prices. If the item is more expensive to buy from the AH then it is to make, they'll make it themselves :o . But if a crafter can make an item for a profit then the AH will be full of them and there won't be any profit to be made off that item anyways :o . If the item is cheaper on then AH then it is to make then it obviously came from another source (like an NPC vendor) therefore the crafter will just go buy their own :o . If it's an item that can only be bought in a limited amount from the NPC the price is going to be jacked anyways, therefore the gil to guild point ratio is going to be too high therefore the crafter will just wait until tomorrow for an easier, cheaper target :o .

Actually I was speaking directly from experience. On Quetzalcoatl, which I'm starting to think has the most screwed up economy of all the servers, I've watched the prices fluctuate wildly depending on what the GP item is that day. Some clothcrafting materials can nearly triple in price on days when they're in demand for crafting GP items, and then fall off to their regular levels a couple of days later. So while it's not really a long-term effect, it's still significant.

The object of a gil sink is to remove cash from the game. But removing value is almost as good. If I farm for everything I use to make a Gild Point item, everything I use is removed from the economy, therefore increasing the demand on what there is left.

When the government pays to remove a crop from the market, they tell us that it is price supports and will help the farmer, the baker, the distributors, the retailers with higher prices.

Of course when they remove drugs from the markets, they tell us it is interdiction, and that it hurts the farmers, distributers, the retailors, etc....



But people powerleveling crafts has got to be the purest Gil sink of all. They buy at the Guild shop, not the AH. They sell to the Guild shop, not the AH. This removes both Gil and value.

... until they are level 90 and take a god drop and turns it into a 7 million gil item. All the sudden all that gil spent powerleveling a craft is returned threefold.

Firemyst wrote:... until they are level 90 and take a god drop and turns it into a 7 million gil item. All the sudden all that gil spent powerleveling a craft is returned threefold.

But... that gil is frrrom another player so it not really introduced into the game, it only changes hands.

Prrsha wrote:It would have to be most likely a one time deal (maybe for one month only). If they made gil buying a constant thing, you will have "gil sellers" running rampid on the servers.

It's like if you suddenly legalize drugs and have it out on the free market, it would put most of the drug sellers out of business. Beat them at their own game and they die almost overnight.

Rinaah wrote:

Prrsha wrote:It would have to be most likely a one time deal (maybe for one month only). If they made gil buying a constant thing, you will have "gil sellers" running rampid on the servers.

It's like if you suddenly legalize drugs and have it out on the free market, it would put most of the drug sellers out of business. Beat them at their own game and they die almost overnight.

But you would have gilsellers everywhere selling gil to SE to make money. You would still have the same problems regarding gilseller tatics.

OK, here is another Gil sink idea.

The Guild Point items take large amounts of Gil from some people some of the time. How about one that most everyone would pay some small amount, say 50 or 100gil per use, and use a lot? Of course one would have to offer something truly usefull.

The Vanad'iel Classified Adds.

Things for sale, things wanted, crafting available, and biggest of all, people available.

Ever not gone out Farming because you wanted to level a whole different job? Well, now you can change to BLM/THF or whatever, and still have your flag up as a level 18 RNG.

Have Orb want party for BCNM would be popular too.

Say 50 Gil for an add that lasts a day, 100 for one that lasts a week.

How many adds do you think you would buy?

Prrsha wrote:

Rinaah wrote:

Prrsha wrote:It would have to be most likely a one time deal (maybe for one month only). If they made gil buying a constant thing, you will have "gil sellers" running rampid on the servers.

It's like if you suddenly legalize drugs and have it out on the free market, it would put most of the drug sellers out of business. Beat them at their own game and they die almost overnight.

But you would have gilsellers everywhere selling gil to SE to make money. You would still have the same problems regarding gilseller tatics.

If SE sold the gil, gilsellers wouldnt be able to sell to SE. Gilbuyers might increase.. but the sellers would decrease

Kahvi wrote:

Prrsha wrote:

Rinaah wrote: It's like if you suddenly legalize drugs and have it out on the free market, it would put most of the drug sellers out of business. Beat them at their own game and they die almost overnight.

But you would have gilsellers everywhere selling gil to SE to make money. You would still have the same problems regarding gilseller tatics.

If SE sold the gil, gilsellers wouldnt be able to sell to SE. Gilbuyers might increase.. but the sellers would decrease

I was talking about SE "buying" gil from players. If SE sold gil that would be just silly. No person in their right mind would play FFXI then.

If you thought gil inflation was bad before, it would just be insane if SE sold gil.

Inflation is caused by the lack of players.

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hmmmm... How about like a service for all those high levels where you can reset what you want to use merit points for. For example, if you put 3 merit points int H2H combat skillz but you later decide it was a mistake, you could pay like 5000 gill to remove each point you put into H2H, and put it into something you currently want/need. I think this might be a good idea to help sink gil. Any thoughts on it?

Sounds like a good idea. I like the idea that once you get a character up to level 75 you can pay a certain amount of gil to reset him to level 1 of that job, but you add +1 to all the stats like MND and DEX and INT and stuff. If you keep repeatinging you can have a kickass level 1 characher!!!


Although I like the idea of a Salon to change hairstyle for a fee of 10K gil or something.