MithraPride

Fiye wrote:

Sugami wrote:Easy solution if you're hasting, just ask them to remind you when it wears

That, and use the recast plugin for a windower. I swear to god that thing is a hell of a gift.

Yeah, lotta good plugins do for us on PS2 or 360.

There also is no need for those things.

the command /recast works just fine for me.
You also do not have to haste everyone every fight.
Like I said before, if haste would wear off before the second fight after casting the spell ends your party is killing too slow and it doesn't deserve to be hasted.

Just look at what kind of melee your party has and decide who has haste priority and who can do perfectly fine without.

Priority:
Tanks always.
PLDs: Attack speed and flash recast.
NINs: Attack speed and Utsusemi recast
Haste considerably helps them to keep hate.

Melee:
2 handed weapon wielders like:
DRG, DRK, WAR using G-Axe.
No explaination needed.
The rest.
Most melee use /nin and dual wield weapons so that keeps them low on the priority listing.

Jobs that normally don't need Haste are:
Ranger: they don't notice the effects on their arrowspam delay really.
Samurai: Have a small benefit but make TP fast enough as it is.
Blue mage: They can haste themselves.

Shirai wrote:Jobs that normally don't need Haste are:
Ranger: they don't notice the effects on their arrowspam delay really.

Just a tiny clarification -- it's not that the RNG doesn't notice it, it's that haste has no effect on ranged rates at all. BTW, after hasting the tanks, I generally haste based on DPS & Agro. For instance, I won't haste a MNK/war. I'll haste the DRG instead. I'll use haste to up DPS, but if that causes a DD job to turn into a tank, I'll stop hasting that player.

When I XP as THF -- or rather when I used to back in renkei groups -- I'd always tell the WHM to haste me last. THF unhasted would get TP faster than anyone else with haste. Balancing out the TP rates for renkei was the important thing back then.

These days in a burn group just haste all you can, highest DPS first.

-=-=-

My own rating for healers:
. bad = can barely keep 1 hasted, often leaves tanks unhasted
. normal = keeps 2 hasted
. good = keeps 3 hasted
. amazing = keeps 4 hasted

Shirai wrote:Melee:
2 handed weapon wielders like:
DRG, DRK, WAR using G-Axe.
No explaination needed.
The rest.
Most melee use /nin and dual wield weapons so that keeps them low on the priority listing.

I love you

Dual Wield doesn't effect TP gain but only attack speed. A /NIN Dual Wielder will have Dual Wield II 50+ which I think is 15% psuedo-Haste.
Edit: Dual Wield III (NIN45) is 25% psuedo-Haste and IV (NIN65) 30% psuedo-Haste (apparently).

I have no idea whether Martial Arts gives faster TP gain aswell as attack speed and a MNK75 probably has Martial Arts III or IV *looks it up* hmm turns out they get Martial Arts VI at 75 can't find much else about that.

SAM now get 10% Haste with Hasso (and anyone /SAM with 2-handed), it's true Haste so faster TP gain aswell.

Wouldn't you want to Haste the people with the slightly worse DPS first? Evens out damage and therefore hate between everyone, which is what most these parties want to have hate bouncing between everyone.

Another Edit: No point Hasting COR as doesn't effect Phantom Roll (Job Abiliity not spell) and their damage is from ranged gun Meleeing at 70+ is with fast attack weapons too.

Okuza wrote:BTW, after hasting the tanks, I generally haste based on DPS & Agro. For instance, I won't haste a MNK/war. I'll haste the DRG instead. I'll use haste to up DPS, but if that causes a DD job to turn into a tank, I'll stop hasting that player.

That's what I mean with melee becoming manasponges, if they like to tank so much the MP reserved for haste will be better spent on cures.

When I XP as THF -- or rather when I used to back in renkei groups -- I'd always tell the WHM to haste me last. THF unhasted would get TP faster than anyone else with haste. Balancing out the TP rates for renkei was the important thing back then.

These days in a burn group just haste all you can, highest DPS first.

In burn groups (when I want to, I generally hate them.) everyone gets hasted, but I also expect every melee in hat group to have nin subbed.
Thiefs are indeed normally the last on my own list as well, not that I dislike thiefs but a good geared thief will get TP nearly as fast as a Sam.

-=-=-

My own rating for healers:
. bad = can barely keep 1 hasted, often leaves tanks unhasted
. normal = keeps 2 hasted
. good = keeps 3 hasted
. amazing = keeps 4 hasted

I guess my summoner would be amazing then
(Currently 3 minutes 9 seconds on Hastega. ^^)

Keeping 4 people hasted is not that hard, but it's just highly dependant on the group I party with and where and what we fight.
If they kill fast enough, don't get hurt a lot it's generally easy to keep haste up and keep my MP pool on a good level.
Fighting AoE heavy mobs like Imps and Flies makes this a lot harder.
Silena prz! Silena prz! Silena prz! Silena prz! Silena prz!
BAM! cursed sphere....

Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire

Sugami wrote:Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire

Sorry, but after an hour of fighting Imps you're out of drops.
And most melee don't even bother bringing them these days.
(The newer generation of high levels don't even know how to do their jobs properly, let alone know what meds are.)

So freaking true its not funny ><

I enjoy fast paced exp, but I absolutely hate doing TP burns these days. Main healing has never been my favorite role to play in either exp or just messing around with friends, but when parties try to stuff another DD into to the party instead of getting me a freaking support job of some sort it becomes unbearable.

"You don't need any support- you're a RDM!"
"No need to wait for MP- you have Convert!!"
"Why are you resting? I need Silena/Poisona/Haste NOW!!"

Times I wish SE had let RDMs keep marksmanship....

Shirai wrote:

Sugami wrote:Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire

Sorry, but after an hour of fighting Imps you're out of drops.
And most melee don't even bother bringing them these days.
(The newer generation of high levels don't even know how to do their jobs properly, let alone know what meds are.)

Oh, come on. That means they have to take time away from leveling to farm and the added cost of meds (On top of food, assuming they use that) means it'll take them longer to get that "Must-have" gear. Unless they buy gil.

If you craft and are proficient at it you can make most (If not all) you need food and med wise far cheaper than you can buy it if you rely on yourself for your ingredients. Then again, that means taking time away from leveling and "You can't craft without like, 20 million gil to PL crafting with because of the gilsellers."

Sugami wrote:Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire

Melees??? Echo Drops??? Aren't those Mage onry??? Most of them seem to think so at least.

ScarlettPheonix wrote:Times I wish SE had let RDMs keep marksmanship....

We had Marksmanship Skill at one time??

Once a very long time ago we had marksmanship, Dia was Divine, Regen only existed in the RDM spell list and kept company with Flash and Cure V. Then SE changed its mind, took it all back and gave us A+ Enfeebling, Refresh and Convert instead.

Vana'diel has never been the same

Keavy wrote:

Shirai wrote:

Sugami wrote:Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire

Sorry, but after an hour of fighting Imps you're out of drops.
And most melee don't even bother bringing them these days.
(The newer generation of high levels don't even know how to do their jobs properly, let alone know what meds are.)

Oh, come on. That means they have to take time away from leveling to farm and the added cost of meds (On top of food, assuming they use that) means it'll take them longer to get that "Must-have" gear. Unless they buy gil.

If you craft and are proficient at it you can make most (If not all) you need food and med wise far cheaper than you can buy it if you rely on yourself for your ingredients. Then again, that means taking time away from leveling and "You can't craft without like, 20 million gil to PL crafting with because of the gilsellers."

Guilty.

...And the sad thing is that I don't even have money for that gear.

I make up with it with Yaji's (Puppet) damage. Blows most DDs out of the water even at 50 where PUP starts to drop off!

Shirai wrote:Sorry, but after an hour of fighting Imps you're out of drops.
And most melee don't even bother bringing them these days.
(The newer generation of high levels don't even know how to do their jobs properly, let alone know what meds are.)

One hour and bye-bye 2 stacks (at least) of echo drops? Makes me glad I don't play any /NIN jobs 'cept for WAR which isn't at that level range yet.
I also prefer anywhere BUT the Mire, it's usually too full to get decent exp anyways
Yup, most 60+ people do seem kinda crappy these days.

ScarlettPheonix wrote:but when parties try to stuff another DD into to the party instead of getting me a freaking support job of some sort it becomes unbearable.

I was in a party the other day; all it had for support was a RDM and myself (COR/RNG). RDM was taking a lot of down time, not enough healing power

Times I wish SE had let RDMs keep marksmanship....

You've still got Archery

Keavy wrote:Oh, come on. That means they have to take time away from leveling to farm and the added cost of meds (On top of food, assuming they use that) means it'll take them longer to get that "Must-have" gear. Unless they buy gil.

NPC sells them quite cheap. If they really want to exp in the Mire they should be prepaired to pay for it otherwise go elsewhere

Tsybil wrote:Melees??? Echo Drops??? Aren't those Mage onry??? Most of them seem to think so at least.

It's funny because it's true

Bow and arrow just doesn't speak with the same authority as a rifle >.>

Sugami wrote:

Shirai wrote:Sorry, but after an hour of fighting Imps you're out of drops.
And most melee don't even bother bringing them these days.
(The newer generation of high levels don't even know how to do their jobs properly, let alone know what meds are.)

One hour and bye-bye 2 stacks (at least) of echo drops? Makes me glad I don't play any /NIN jobs 'cept for WAR which isn't at that level range yet.
I also prefer anywhere BUT the Mire, it's usually too full to get decent exp anyways
Yup, most 60+ people do seem kinda crappy these days.

Whatever happened to good old sky?
Those weapons are nice and burnable as well.

Uleguerand Range?
Oooh no everyone but the Japanese are too skurd to fight there.
Oh no 6 seconds isn't enough time to turn for Doom.
OH MY GOD THESE MOBS ARE IT NOWAI I GUNNA KILL THAT.

Lufaise meadows?
Onoez I still needz promiez. (Forgivable at some point but not to people with more then one 70+ job )

Some more extreme cases, but I kid you not
Skillchain? WTF? We only use that pre level 60.
lolBLM
Some nubcase>>White mage? Too weak!
(20 minutes later: nubcase: /sh Raise III x5 Caedarva Mire Can I have it?)

Keavy wrote:Oh, come on. That means they have to take time away from leveling to farm and the added cost of meds (On top of food, assuming they use that) means it'll take them longer to get that "Must-have" gear. Unless they buy gil.

NPC sells them quite cheap. If they really want to exp in the Mire they should be prepaired to pay for it otherwise go elsewhere

Tsybil wrote:Melees??? Echo Drops??? Aren't those Mage onry??? Most of them seem to think so at least.

It's funny because it's true

Reall funny part, they DO expect mages to have them indeed but in the mean time they decide to fight Imps on top of us...

Sugami wrote:Wouldn't you want to Haste the people with the slightly worse DPS first? Evens out damage and therefore hate between everyone, which is what most these parties want to have hate bouncing between everyone.

It just depends on if your goal is to balance agro or to maximize DPS. In a burn party, all I care about is DPS. The faster you kill, the less healing you do and the more XP you get. So, haste the top DPS people first. Haste is a percentage boost. So, the group gets more out of hasting the high DPS folk than the lower.

Shirai wrote:I guess my summoner would be amazing then Razz
(Currently 3 minutes 9 seconds on Hastega. ^^)

LOL. My ratings for SMN are different than WHM and RDM.

SMN ratings:
. bad = "I r DD. Heal urself!"
. normal = Heals, sometimes casts buffs & dd
. good = heals, always keeps some kind of buff on group, & dd's
. amazing = heals, keeps 2-3 buffs on group, & dd's

The best SMN I ever grouped with kept hastega & stoneskin on the group and also tossed DD BP's out, too. This was *before* the SMN buff/dd BP timer split.

Sugami wrote:Silena? Damn nubs should know to bring echo drops to the Mire Laughing

LOL. I always carry a full stack when I'm nin or sub/nin, but I only use it in emergencies while XP'ing. I'd carry more and use it regularly if I could. The problem is that NIN has no inventory space. I'm around 58/60 in XP gear. Damn tools and all the swap-in gear just chew up inventory. I'd kill for a universal ninjutsu tool that worked for all ninjutsu. That would free up at least 10 inventory slots right there.

Leane wrote:

MittensValefor wrote:*Party wipes to a gob suicide while Mittens only loses 10HP* "Whoah! What just happened to you guys?"

BTW beautiful screenshot!

could we see that please?

I assume you're asking for a screenie of the PT wipe. The screenie I was referring to was the one Shirai posted of her capped melee skill. I don't have a screenie of the times I took next to zero damage from a gobbie bomb and the party wiped, and I'm too lazy to dig thru my old logs, but here's how it'd happen: Puller brings a gob. Healer doesn't barfira, so I barfire myself and stoneskin. Gob bombs the party and does 500 or so damage to each member. Barfire reduces the damage I would have taken to around 300, and stoneskin absorbs most of it. (I've heard 350 is the cap on damage absorbed by stoneskin.) So I help the healer keep the tank alive, who by now is in the red, and recast stoneskin. Gob suicide bombs for another 500 damage. There goes the pt. MP spent preventing 1,000 damage to myself - about 60.

Works elsewhere too. I like to melee with RDM/BRD in burn parties in the mire. Stoneskin makes it possible to fight flies without taking any AoE damage.

Yeah, I just went out of my way to get Barfira a few days ago after a Bitomi (Or whatever they're called) in Den of Rancor SDed on us. It wiped everyone BUT the BLU, who already had Self Destruct.

Fiye wrote:Yeah, I just went out of my way to get Barfira a few days ago after a Bitomi (Or whatever they're called) in Den of Rancor SDed on us. It wiped everyone BUT the BLU, who already had Self Destruct.

Wait, you didn't have it already?

ScarlettPheonix wrote:Bow and arrow just doesn't speak with the same authority as a rifle >.>

Too true, that's why I love Corsair so much. I get to dress like a sexy pirate and I have a gun too!

Shirai wrote:Whatever happened to good old sky?
Those weapons are nice and burnable as well.

I've only had one party there. Weapons aren't nice for DRG 'cause the AOE kills my poor wyvern but was a lot of fun, 'cause I partied with friends, and still good exp

Uleguerand Range?
Oooh no everyone but the Japanese are too skurd to fight there.
Oh no 6 seconds isn't enough time to turn for Doom.
OH MY GOD THESE MOBS ARE IT NOWAI I GUNNA KILL THAT.

I've only partied there once and we were too low for it and promptly got our asses handed to us

Lufaise meadows?
Onoez I still needz promiez. (Forgivable at some point but not to people with more then one 70+ job )

Every melee hates that place, especially NINs and PLDs as birds have Triple Attack and Gliding Spikes can do 800+ and Rams have Max HP down Heck the 3-5 seconds I have hate from opening the SC is long enough to put me from full HP to zero

Some more extreme cases, but I kid you not
Skillchain? WTF? We only use that pre level 60.
lolBLM
Some nubcase>>White mage? Too weak!
(20 minutes later: nubcase: /sh Raise III x5 Caedarva Mire Can I have it?)

Reall funny part, they DO expect mages to have them indeed but in the mean time they decide to fight Imps on top of us...

It's the Sanction EXP boost that makes everyone still want to party in expansion zones. Maybe if they added it to Signet more people would party in old places again.

Okuza wrote:The problem is that NIN has no inventory space. I'm around 58/60 in XP gear. Damn tools and all the swap-in gear just chew up inventory.

You mean NINs still use those?

Mittens wrote:Puller brings a gob. Healer doesn't barfira, so I barfire myself and stoneskin. Gob bombs the party and does 500 or so damage to each member. Barfire reduces the damage I would have taken to around 300, and stoneskin absorbs most of it. (I've heard 350 is the cap on damage absorbed by stoneskin.) So I help the healer keep the tank alive, who by now is in the red, and recast stoneskin. Gob suicide bombs for another 500 damage. There goes the pt. MP spent preventing 1,000 damage to myself - about 60.

That's not the worst they can do

Example of what a Goblin Fascinator (BLM) has done to my parties in the past;
1) Resisted Silence
2) Sleepga II
3) Firaga III
4) Dropped bomb
5) Dead party

heh- not every melee hates Lufaise. DRGs, THFs and RNGs especially were once in love with exping in Lufaise.

It does have a lot of downsides though- its a small area, good for 1-2 parties in the 71-73 range or 1 party of 75s smashing their way through everything. PLD tanks do better then NIN, especially nowadays and you don't >have< to fight a ram- but if you do, bring a whm.

Another excellent merit area would be Sea, but like with Lufaise- finding 6 random ppl who all have acess to it is...difficult. Good thing I can solo there.

ScarlettPheonix wrote: Another excellent merit area would be Sea, but like with Lufaise- finding 6 random ppl who all have acess to it is...difficult. Good thing I can solo there.

I agree there, however only few actually go there to exp while the aerns aren't that bad to do so on.
Next to that a lot of people don't have sea, so that is something that is not an option at all for the most.

Ah well, there are always Ghrah I can solo on.

ScarlettPheonix wrote:heh- not every melee hates Lufaise. DRGs, THFs and RNGs especially were once in love with exping in Lufaise.

I'm a DRG and I didn't like it Sure the damage was great, must have been 72ish at the time and averaging 500 Wheeling Thrusts (didn't even need to voke to get hate for SC) but like I said, every time I had hate I feared for my life
Not so bad for the people who were SATAing the tank as they never got hate

Another excellent merit area would be Sea, but like with Lufaise- finding 6 random ppl who all have acess to it is...difficult.

Yeah unless it's an LS party the chances of all 6 people having Sea access is slim to none I want Sea!

Hey, don't bitch at me for not having the Promie's done. I'm 0/10 on Holla. We've tried every strategy we can think of: BST, SMN, RNG, With anima, without anima, soon as that son of a bitch hits 25% HP all hell breaks loose and we wipe.

I'm also 0/3 on Shadow Lord. Mainly because we get these impatient people who say "Forget RR Keavy, we can whoop his ass" then we get in there, sh*t hits the fan while I'm stuck in CS, after I finally get through it they're all in the red expecting me to pull a miracle out of my ass (Not a whole lot I can do with only Bene and no Cure V) THEN they have the audacity to bitch AT ME for not using F***ING RERAISE!!!

Anyone on Phoenix willing to assist with either send me a PM here or a /tell in-game. Don't make me beg. Because I will. And it will be sad and pathetic.

Keavy wrote:Hey, don't bitch at me for not having the Promie's done. I'm 0/10 on Holla. We've tried every strategy we can think of: BST, SMN, RNG, With anima, without anima, soon as that son of a bitch hits 25% HP all hell breaks loose and we wipe.

That can be forgiven, however at some point you'll meet someone that has real good knowledge on them and you'll race through them saying HORY **** that was easy!
At least you are trying, there are people out there with multiple 75's that haven't even tried a promy after their first wipe ever.
Heck you must've wiped to worse by now.

You just need one person who knows exactly what to do, then you won't even need a ranger or summoner to beat them.

I'm also 0/3 on Shadow Lord. Mainly because we get these impatient people who say "Forget RR Keavy, we can whoop his ass" then we get in there, sh*t hits the fan while I'm stuck in CS, after I finally get through it they're all in the red expecting me to pull a miracle out of my ass (Not a whole lot I can do with only Bene and no Cure V) THEN they have the audacity to bitch AT ME for not using F***ING RERAISE!!!

That's their fault, who are you going with btw?
(If I were on there I would have soloed him for you >.>)

Kintrra wrote:

Fiye wrote:Yeah, I just went out of my way to get Barfira a few days ago after a Bitomi (Or whatever they're called) in Den of Rancor SDed on us. It wiped everyone BUT the BLU, who already had Self Destruct.

Wait, you didn't have it already?

Hehehehe... yeah. I didn't have it. Thankfully, that Astral Sold, so I'm putting all that money into catching up on the spells I didn't get. I ready got every single spell above my level (Except for any meritable ones)

To answer Shirai's question LS peeps, friends of theirs, and peeps we find in Aht Urghan and Jeuno that want to tag along and help.

That goes for both 5-2 and Promy-Holla.

Dem I won first go from a pure pickup party (Things went bad from the start and we still pulled a win) and I won Mea on my second go (We barely lost the first time then we decided to go again and mopped the floor with the boss for Mea.)

Dont worry Keavy, im a lvl 70 RDM. Soon as I beat Maat ill power to lvl 75 and I will SOLO the shadowlord for you. After all, he is just 1% evil and 99% hot air. He's like a can of Diet Coke evil.

Oh ill also help you with promies as well. Drk FTW!!!

You need buttloads of anima to win prommies and know when to use them (ones that stop TP attacks at the end).

Ideally you'd want one anima per person if not more.