OMG I think I will take PUP to 75.......

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:24 pm

I must say Aspir is the most useless spell for RDM considering Dark Magic is an E skill (I think) even with all my Magic Acc+ (<3 wise set) my Aspirs are 4-20MP average and considering it costs 10MP to cast I'm not really getting enough back to make it worth while. I did manage a 95MP Aspir yesterday without ES, God knows how that happened

Drain is still useful though, again without ES it'll get resisted 9/10 times but I often save ES and Convert together so can Drain a nice bit of HP back

As for that guy saying BLU will beat RDM in Ballista... HA!

RDM/NIN > all, BLU won't even have enfeebling magic and a simple Silence will probably stop them from using Blue Magic.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:38 pm

Pheonixhawk wrote:Is dark Magic Really that important. I rarely use it...

If you rarely use it your skill will be low, your returns poor.

With my lousy E level Dark Magic skill capped I can ES Drain 150 - 220 HPs from EXP mobs. Its the topper that hits the spot after a Convert.

Farming EPs and DCs I can often get 80 - 100 HPs without ES. 21 MPs for a 160 to 200 HP swing in my favor......

As to Aspir, sure sometimes it returns only 6 MPs from EXP mobs and is kind of a waste, but sometimes it gets me 60 - 80 MPs. Got 46 from a Yagudo High Priest yesterday. As he counts as a L 75 NM I was quite pleased with that.

Leveling Dark is easy. In EXP parties you can Bio Crawlers, or use Bio at the end of the fight on any mob. If you have a Bio happy BLM who insists on overwriting your Dias just join the fun. One Drain every fight. One Aspir every fight on mobs that have MPs.

When you get to level 70 you will want your Dark skill capped, trust me on this.

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:55 pm

I honestly love Aspir and Drain. So much so that I forget I don't have the spells when I sub something else.

Like Keavy said, anything that casts will have MP but don't forget there are many none casting mobs that do as well. Crabs, beetles, big birds, cockatrices and weapons (both caster and non-caster) for example. You can still get skill ups from Aspir if you cast it on a non-mp mob, if you have the mp to waste on it which is rare in exp parties lol.

You'll get resists on exp mobs, especially caster ones if you haven't dispelled their buffs away, but they are still good spells to use if you have time/mp. Also, if you like to solo these are great, anything below the IT++ we usually exp on and the resist rate is much much lower.

Edit: As Sugnami pointed out, thank you btw, yes Sleep's resist rate is based on enfeebling. In my hurry to get this typed out and posted I forgot that although Sleep is dark based, and that dark staff and darksday helps on landing the spell its not actually considered a Dark SKILL spell. Bio, Drain, Aspir, Tractor and Stun will all skill up dark skill.

I apologize if I confused anyone, lol.

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:14 pm

I'm sure Sleep counts as Enfeebling Magic even if it is dark element alligned. Only spells that count as Dark Magic to a RDM are Bio, Bio II, Drain and Aspir.
And yes you can still get skillups from getting 0 from Drain and Aspir, same way you can get a skillup in Enfeebling when you Dispel nothing

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:01 pm

I once had a party bitch at me for using Drain and Aspir. I did it to skill up Dark because I was bored out of my mind. All I was there for was to MB on the two Skillchian's so while Melee was building TP I had nothing to do.

So I reminded them that without me there's no MB and no more Exp. Chain 5's.

NEVER piss off a mage. No matter how good your melee are you NEED a mage. Hell, I had close to 400 MP with equipment and food so its not like I was gonna miss a MB.

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:11 pm

I swear, parties can choose the strangest things to bitch about.

If its not the Refresh cycle, its the Haste cyle. If your MBing too much or not at all, if you dispel when needed or they ask for dispel when its not needed.

I once got yelled at for Regening someone who needed it by another player.

player: Why'd you just cast REFRESH on him???? He doesn't have any MP!

me: ....

me: Try reading the log, that was REGEN.

Its also fun when you get yelled at for choosing to Haste the NIN first and not a scythe wielding DRK.

I was singing hosana's when my static started up, having DDs and a Tank who understood what mages go through and have to do is wonderful.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:41 pm

ScarlettPheonix wrote:If its not the Refresh cycle, its the Haste cyle....

Its also fun when you get yelled at for choosing to Haste the NIN first and not a scythe wielding DRK.

I hardly EVER Haste anyone but the tank. It helps them hold hate. If everyone were hasted, the rest could rip hate away far more easily, take hits, need Cures. Speeds up battles, yes. Cuts shains short though. Yes there is nothing quite like spending 40 MPs to make sure you have to spend more MPs healing.

If a WHM in my parties Hastes everyone I /tell them my philosophy.

Just ask your party what they would rather have. Faster battles and Chain 2 - 4 or slightly longer battles and chain 5 - 6.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:50 pm

ok forget the info I posted before, here is the real info :p

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff ... etail.html

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:23 pm

As RDM I'd rarely Haste, 40mp is quite a lot to a RDM (that isn't taru).

Ooh that's quite interesting, I'm glad Corsair gets those abilities at lv5 or it'd be too much like THF

Just another 2 days to go! Excitement she wrote!

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:48 am

Last night in my party the Black Mage in our party was like dont enfeeble I got it. And I was like (time freezes)

me: back up...OH HELL NO.

He did not just tell me not to enfeeble. He said that his enfeebles were better than mine. So I asked him what was his enfeeble lvl and was it capped. He was like its lvl 91 you noob. (time freezes again)

me thinking to myself: Im going to enjoy this.

I told him well my enfeeble aint capped yet and its at lvl 120. Secondly your a blm all your good for while im here is nuking. Thirdly your enfeebles keep failing while mine are sticking every time. Lastly and noob would know that enfeebling is a rdm's specialty. All he could respond with was : oh...

me:

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:43 am

We're just going to agree to disagree on the Haste issue.

I really don't see it as a waste when wearing Convert Gear I have as much or more mp as a WHM or BLM who isn't a Taru or subbing /smn.

Tanks get hasted always. Period. The rest depends on party make up, the hate line and who is involved in the skillchain(s).

Is a two-handed weapon DD invloved in the SC? Is he getting TP at the same rate as a sinlge or duel-wielded weapon DD? Is hate control an issue?

If the answers are Yes, No and No; then he gets Haste. I will not Haste a DD if hate is an issue. MNKs and SAM/war usually get the pass as do some DRKs.

These days my parties are generally predictable in set up. PLD, RNG THF and I all static together and we'll add in a WHM and a RNG or BLM. The PLD will always get Haste being the tank (usually~had a bad experience with a Petrfibreath happy Ram one night, our thf ended up tanking for the rest of the fight) and I'll also make sure the THF is Hasted since he generally pulls and is involved in the SC.

Like I said it depends on the party and the hate situation. But do I consider Haste a spell thats better off not used? No, not at all.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:44 pm

Just though I'd bring this post back from the dead seeing as now we know what PUP is like, I'd just like to say...

lolPUP

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:11 pm

Was in my first party with a PUP yesterday. OK, not really me but my Melee kitty. L 50 party BTW.

PUP kept calling TP XXX% starting skillchain. The puppet closed less than 50% of the time. Interestingly enough it SCd off me two or three times.

PUP + Automaton = decent damage, but I do wonder if they give the mob too much TP. Of course if you are hunting Marids you want it to have TP.

I think I would rather have a MNK.

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:34 pm

I haven't had a chance to party with a PUP yet.

I've had BLU a few times in my party and alot of CORs seem to be going through Qufim and the jungles at the moment.

I was really suprised at BLU, they're a good addition to parties and COR are just wonderful. Can't wait to see how PUPs do^^

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:38 pm

All I'll say as a PUP is /mage = NO THANKS. and DO NOT ask me to pull. its a 20 Minute recast if my puppet gets killed.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:16 am

Reminds me of Drg. >.> Orz

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:38 am

Well DRG only got that reputation because they took away the penta-spam and DRGs needed to play the job properly, still many don't {/sigh}.

PUP on the other hand just plain sucks. Decent damage? Up to 30 perhaps then start getting weaker, past 40 and you're just a gimp BST with a gimp pet that you have slightly more control over.
Unless you're /MNK with that H2H belt and merits out the wazoo your damage is laughable, which it should be really since the emphasis is on the puppet. However the automaton itself is pretty weak; the ranged version does about 2/3 my damage and I do little less than a RNG and I also buff the party. Mage fram is stupid, casting silence and beetles, overwriting Dia with Bio. There's a trick to it; Light+Dark will always use most powerful spell at the start then you tell it to piss off and attack again but that'll probably be taken away.
Melee frame? I see no purpose in a party for that, weak damage and won't provoke on demand.

Tell you one thing, I won't invite PUPs until they're fixed 'cause they really suck at the moment.

Oh the automaton uses TP when he gets it, the master was probably trying to do his WS just before the automaton. He'd be better off doing it after the automaton but that's what makes it all the more crap really. I'd like to see masters able to use their automaton's TP on command (when over 100%) also gives the melee and ranged one more WSs.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:44 pm

Sugami wrote:Well DRG only got that reputation because they took away the penta-spam and DRGs needed to play the job properly, still many don't {/sigh}.

PUP on the other hand just plain sucks. Decent damage? Up to 30 perhaps then start getting weaker, past 40 and you're just a gimp BST with a gimp pet that you have slightly more control over.
Unless you're /MNK with that H2H belt and merits out the wazoo your damage is laughable, which it should be really since the emphasis is on the puppet. However the automaton itself is pretty weak; the ranged version does about 2/3 my damage and I do little less than a RNG and I also buff the party. Mage fram is stupid, casting silence and beetles, overwriting Dia with Bio. There's a trick to it; Light+Dark will always use most powerful spell at the start then you tell it to piss off and attack again but that'll probably be taken away.
Melee frame? I see no purpose in a party for that, weak damage and won't provoke on demand.

Tell you one thing, I won't invite PUPs until they're fixed 'cause they really suck at the moment.

Oh the automaton uses TP when he gets it, the master was probably trying to do his WS just before the automaton. He'd be better off doing it after the automaton but that's what makes it all the more crap really. I'd like to see masters able to use their automaton's TP on command (when over 100%) also gives the melee and ranged one more WSs.

You Know I Plan to Do that. But I Wont Level Further Til AF Is released. I'm 24 PUP

Post by **Sugami** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:46 am

Do what?

Well you could probably push it to 40 since AF won't really make a difference until then

Still the AF Weapon will probably give you STR+1 and DEX+1 if anything and that'll be it.

Give you this though, it is a fun job to play.

Bitneko · Post by **Bitneko** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:44 am

I'm a 15 PUP, I had to run away from the dunes for a bit because the I.Q. of the air was choking the life from me. I'm using the ranged frame, and I outdamage alot of jobs at the moment. I don't know if I'm just good with PUP or you people aren't giving it much of a chance. PUP is one of the best jobs I've ever played and hopefully SE can make it better so PUP won't be kicked and spat upon.

Plus I can measure how good a party is by how many Koumeis I go through.

Plus it helps to know a PUP 55-60 (I forget his level) that can continue the DD just a little below DRKs and RNGs.

Post by **Sugami** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 am

Bitneko wrote:Plus it helps to know a PUP 55-60 (I forget his level) that can continue the DD just a little below DRKs and RNGs.

I'm sorry but that's either a lie or those DRKs and RNGs really do suck.
I've observed a few PUPs and their damage as been below mine and my damage is a bit below RNG. Ontop of which the ranged model doesn't spam shots like a RNG and COR do nor does it stand back at the sweet spot.

You'll notice your damage dropping at 30 and after 40 it is really quite pitiful

One PUP I partied with must have had H2H merits out the wazoo, PUP/MNK Galka was doing pretty good H2H damage for a PUP and possibly/probably out-doing his own automaton.
This was mid-40s and I don't think he'd be able to keep this up past 60 at least.

Bitneko · Post by **Bitneko** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:28 pm

I guess I was judging from when I met him in Quifim, sorry about that.

I've only seen him occasionally in the streets of Jeuno after that.

(He subs /thf btw.)

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:01 pm

Heh /THF sub seriously detriments his DoT, it only garantees the first hit to critical and the rest could miss and with a C skill on ITs there's a good chance a few will do.
I've heard they get Dragon Kick though, guessing that's around 69 or later.