Meowing Anime

[Shirai]

Think it was Witch Hunter Robin where the chief referred to Robin as "Robin-chan" to which one of his underlings responded with "Chan?"

You know, I was in the translation team for the Dutch subtitles of the Beez release of that series.
Which episode was that again, I will have to look up how we translated that from the context.

[Sugami]

Buggered if I know, I saw that back at university so almost 10 years ago

[Shirai]

Buggered if I know, I saw that back at university so almost 10 years ago

Lazy cat

Mew Mew Power? That's not what the US called Tokyo Mew Mew is it? (which sucks BTW) 4kids hasn't done anything right, they even censored Pokémon. FUNimation was pretty diabolical a while back, now the ADR director is also a VA (usually) so they know the industry quite well and usually get a good result out of it.

Yes I know, and I know that FM has become a lot better over the years but that is because they did listen to the fanbase and most likely also added a few of them to their personel file.
Anime wise Funimation is becoming one of the bigger western players regarding licensed titles and merchandise.

5-10 years ago I might have agreed but now the general pubic = otaku, at least when it comes to watching anime. I don't really consider it unprofessional, especially when there's heavy use of honorifics and it'd be really hard to actually get around it.

No, it is the other way around, anime and manga is no longer the niche product exclusively for that select group..
Anime and manga up to 10 years ago were Otaku niche products, nowadays anime and manga are becoming more accessible and thankfully losing a lot of the reputation it built up back in the early 90's.
The last mainly thanks to Ghibli for their family friendly features getting renowned, but also the older anime fans taking people's attention to their own childhood cartoons and pointing out that a lot of those came from or were made in Japan.
Or telling them about the fact that the only part of the Power rangers that was truly American were the 'Beverly hills' teenagers in the scenes where they weren't wearing those silly suits and making acrobatic moves, the rest of the footage came from the Japanese sentai series called Kyōryū Sentai Zyuranger and was dubbed into English. Including Rita and her gang of villains. (Machiko Soga, May she rest in peace.)

Commercially:
In countries like Germany and France and even on the other side of the ocean on a continent called North-America Anime and Manga is dominant in the book and mediastores, and even over here in our little backwater country called the Netherlands the larger media stores are filling up 2x2 meter or larger displays with anime, also naming it such. But also placed right besides the Disney and other western cartoons instead of a dark hidden corner in the back of the shop with a dusty sign saying "Special interest" or *cringe* Manga (Video).
The comic book stores are also starting to have racks and cases specifically for Manga and Manhua (Chinese and Korean comics) which are starting to take a large part of their shops and even the mainstream bookstores are starting to build a small but growing selection of localized and imported manga.

Fanbase:
Conventions have grown in the number of visitors and are still growing, but also the number of conventions has increased.
Holland itself currently has 4 anime specific conventions including one specialized in Yaoi and Yuri, until 2003 there was only one;
Namely our convention which back then had 700 visitors and we're hoping for 2000 or even 2100 visitors this year.
I also know that there are more organizations looking to get a spot setting up their own convention and I am not counting the seperate events like filmnights, dance events and concerts.
Conventions and other gatherings completely unrelated to anime and manga have been inviting our conventions' presence wether it be in the form of a table in the dealerroom or to help organize one or a set of events at their conventions. Of course we also return the favor.
So not only is it becoming more mainstream, other "niche" cultures like that of Comics and SciFi have also started accepting and even inviting the presence of anime and manga within their ranks.

Media:
Our own convention has been approached more than a few years by local and national media for coverage of our event and the media is also spending more time these days covering Japanese popular culture and thankfully mostly the positive aspects of it and not only the dark side of it like Hikikomori, Chikan and other perversities and social problems.
Although less again these days, Dutch TV had quite a few anime titles for a while, including Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon, Tonde Buurin, Gatchaman, Tekkaman and Card Captor Sakura.
Oh, and Holland may have a real Manga library soon.

Brittain doesn't differ that much from Holland when it comes to anime and manga from what I have seen last November.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

I guess we do.

[Sugami]

No, it is the other way around, anime and manga is no longer the niche product exclusively for that select group..

No it's not niche but rather than the general public starting to like it I think it's more of a case that the "otaku" group has grown to quite a sizeable amount. The people that like anime/manga are "otaku", sure there might be the odd person that doesn't mind the odd anime or manga but in general the majority of the people who do like it are "otaku" to some extent.

Over here in the UK it is still pretty niche, there's a few more conventions but you'll find very few anime on freeview, the ones that are shown are Pokémon and the such on children's channels. At best there'll be two or so channels on Sky or cable that'll show anime and they're probably pretty old anime too; DBZ, Gundam Wing, Cowboy Bebop etc.

Also a convention specifically for (gay) hentai? Can't say I'm all that surprised considering it's in Holland

Also also, "lazy"? Expect me to search through my library of burnt anime to find Witch Hunter Robin and watch through it until I find the right episode? I don't think so

[Shirai]

No it's not niche but rather than the general public starting to like it I think it's more of a case that the "otaku" group has grown to quite a sizeable amount. The people that like anime/manga are "otaku", sure there might be the odd person that doesn't mind the odd anime or manga but in general the majority of the people who do like it are "otaku" to some extent.

I think we both have a differen perception of the term otaku.
To me, the otaku is the smallest group of anime fans and also the group I find most scary.
Also if you take the litteral translation of otaku it means fanatic, and fanatic is close to extremist.
No they won't strap explosives around their their bodies or anything, but they do treat anime and manga like it is a religion.
Yes, even on our convention we have a few running around, easily recognizable by their shabby and pale looks, the way they talk (or rather avoid 3D humans) and let's not forget how they smell...

The rest is either "The anime fan", knows a bit about it, but mostly just enjoys watching it but watches western cartoons and tv series just as easy.
Among these there's a huge variaty but I won't go too deep into that now.

And "The general public" which nowadays occasionally buys a Ghibli or other accessible title like Summer Wars or The girl who leaped through time to watch with the kids.

Of course the biggest market is The anime fan, but a big part of the animefans watches dubbed anime. (Yes, it is true the biggest part of anime fans (~85%) watches dubs.)
For the people that watch Anime in Japanese a part knows nothing about the japanese language. (keep in mind that honorifics confuse the shyte out of those people.)
The part that keeps demanding honorifics in translations is only a small group.

Also a convention specifically for homosexual anime and manga? Can't say I'm all that surprised considering it's in Holland

Let me fix that statement because it is both wrong and insulting.
Even though the major part of the genre is indeed H or even ero, and the minimum age to be allowed to enter that convention is 18+, the convention is more about shounen and shoujo ai, so no, you won't find an ear of corn being shoved up a guy's rear end by another guy or those kinds of perversities.

Also also, "lazy"? Expect me to search through my library of burnt anime to find Witch Hunter Robin and watch through it until I find the right episode? I don't think so

You came with the dilema, you give me sauce! Lazy cat!

[Sugami]

I think we both have a differen perception of the term otaku.
To me, the otaku is the smallest group of anime fans and also the group I find most scary.
Also if you take the litteral translation of otaku it means fanatic, and fanatic is close to extremist.
No they won't strap explosives around their their bodies or anything, but they do treat anime and manga like it is a religion.
Yes, even on our convention we have a few running around, easily recognizable by their shabby and pale looks, the way they talk (or rather avoid 3D humans) and let's not forget how they smell...

The rest is either "The anime fan", knows a bit about it, but mostly just enjoys watching it but watches western cartoons and tv series just as easy.
Among these there's a huge variaty but I won't go too deep into that now.

And "The general public" which nowadays occasionally buys a Ghibli or other accessible title like Summer Wars or The girl who leaped through time to watch with the kids.

Of course the biggest market is The anime fan, but a big part of the animefans watches dubbed anime. (Yes, it is true the biggest part of anime fans (~85%) watches dubs.)
For the people that watch Anime in Japanese a part knows nothing about the japanese language. (keep in mind that honorifics confuse the shyte out of those people.)
The part that keeps demanding honorifics in translations is only a small group.

That's why I used quotation marks and said "to some extent" To the "outside world" anyone who likes anime is considered an "otaku", heck I'd consider anyone who goes to conventions an "otaku", I'd consider myself an "otaku" as well. The extreme I'd probably call a Japanophile, the group you'd consider to be an "otaku". In my eyes there are varying levels of "otaku".

Still I'd have thought the most casual of otaku would know about honorifics and the odd Japanese word, kawaii desu ne~? Maybe just the Japanese, they're own fault if they're too stupid to pick up or even lookup honorifics after watching anime in Japanese for a while

Let me fix that statement because it is both wrong and insulting.
Even though the major part of the genre is indeed H or even ero, and the minimum age to be allowed to enter that convention is 18+, the convention is more about shounen and shoujo ai, so no, you won't find an ear of corn being shoved up a guy's rear end by another guy or those kinds of perversities.

It was my understanding that yaoi and yuri are genres of hentai. If it was just shounen/shoujou-ai you should have just said so

You came with the dilema, you give me sauce! Lazy cat!

Piffle, make your own sauce
I can tell you of another anime that had to deal with -chan, Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040. Nene would call Leon with the chan honorific, to which Leon didn't like. In the dub she'd say Leon-poo, Leon-peon or other things, which as funny as they are are more insulting than tagging -chan on the end, even though they were terms of endearment. The sub I believe actually wrote "chan".
Baccano! sub writes -san where they just ditched the honorifics all together in the dub, makes sense considering the setting.

[Shirai]

That's why I used quotation marks and said "to some extent" To the "outside world" anyone who likes anime is considered an "otaku", heck I'd consider anyone who goes to conventions an "otaku", I'd consider myself an "otaku" as well. The extreme I'd probably call a Japanophile,

Oh boy, then I wonder what catagory you shove me under.
I organize anime conventions, visit other conventions, go to Japan "regularly" (once or twice every 2 years), have been part of anime distribution in the past, both legal and in the earlier stages less legal (fansubs) and even have a decent understanding of the language.
(I wouldn't go as far as saying I speak the language because I don't.)

Other then that I hardly watch any anime these days, mostly because I don't have time for it but also because I find most of the anime released these days utterly craptastic.

the group you'd consider to be an "otaku". In my eyes there are varying levels of "otaku".

For me otaku is nearly the most extreme form, only topped by Weaboo and Hikikomori.

Still I'd have thought the most casual of otaku would know about honorifics and the odd Japanese word, kawaii desu ne~? Maybe just the Japanese, they're own fault if they're too stupid to pick up or even lookup honorifics after watching anime in Japanese for a while

"Desu ne" has a translation actually, namely "is it not?" or "are they not?".
Neko ha kawaii, desu ne? - The cat is cute, is it not?
Otaku ha zetai-ni kowaii desu ne? - Otaku are truly/absolutely/incredibly scary are they not?

Piffle, make your own sauce
I can tell you of another anime that had to deal with -chan, Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040. Nene would call Leon with the chan honorific, to which Leon didn't like. In the dub she'd say Leon-poo, Leon-peon or other things, which as funny as they are are more insulting than tagging -chan on the end, even though they were terms of endearment. The sub I believe actually wrote "chan".

Leon sweety~
Leon dear~
Leon hun~
Leon hunny~
Leon (insert name of cute tiny animal)~

Baccano! sub writes -san where they just ditched the honorifics all together in the dub, makes sense considering the setting.

*goes to watch it again*

[Sugami]

go to Japan "regularly" (once or twice every 2 years)

So jealous D:

For me otaku is nearly the most extreme form, only topped by Weaboo and Hikikomori.

Can't say I've heard "hikikomori", googled it to be Japanese for "social recluse" or something to that effect. Not necessarily associated with anime/manga. Don't get me started on "weeaboo" or whatever. Nerds making up derogative slang for another group of nerds, who's the real loser in this case?

"Desu ne" has a translation actually, namely "is it not?" or "are they not?".
Neko ha kawaii, desu ne? - The cat is cute, is it not?
Otaku ha zetai-ni kowaii desu ne? - Otaku are truly/absolutely/incredibly scary are they not?

Well, yes and no. I'd say the closest translation to "ne" is just "right?" but from what I understand it's like asking a question where you expect them to agree, almost rhetorical. "Isn't it?" seems like a genuine question. Should point out I was using "kawaii desu ne" as the limited Japanese that some "otaku" know

Leon sweety~
Leon dear~
Leon hun~
Leon hunny~
Leon (insert name of cute tiny animal)~

Ehh... doesn't really fit the character. She's late teens talking to a superior and elder, "chan" is used in a rather child-like way and the kind of things you're suggesting makes it sound like they're a couple There is really no way you can translate "chan" without changing the meaning/context/whatever a little

*goes to watch it again*

I'm watching it through in Japanese now after watching in English and the commentary It's the Japanese culture that's mixed in with the dialogue, as calling someone by their given name with no honorific would be disrespectful (if you weren't close to them) but at the same time "Mr. Luck" would (practically) never be used in America.

Edit: Episode 6 Ladd calls Jacuzzi with the "-kun" honorific, why is that? They're certainly not friends so "-san" would be more appropriate, to me it seems like he's using it in an almost sarcastic way, looking down at Jacuzzi by being "chummy". This kind of subtlety is lost in translation so it's good to actually see it on the screen to reinforce what you just heard.

[Asphe]

Shirai is an otaku. Sugs is not. Well maybe...

In JPN-land, otaku = pretty extreme fan. i.e. people who would pay 200k for a guitar signed by the VAs of K-On for example but Shirai would count too since he spends that much effort/time/money on it... but in a positive sense. To be called an otaku in Japan... it is somewhat derogatary. Something your parents would hope you never get labeled with. Typical of how a term has different degrees of meaning across different cultures.

In NA-NA-land, otakus are anyone who watches anime and you are all weirdo/stalkers but it's not considered that derogatory. I would call myself an otaku in NA, never in Japan. Just like anyone who steals a postage stamp (by accidentally stepping on it) and plays Counter-Strike is a delinquent made violent by playing violent video games if Reuters/CNN gets a hold of it. Perspective... and popular perception of it.

In the meantime... did you see those Trekkers in their Klingon get-up? Lol...

[Sugami]

Yeah I always use "otaku" in the non-JP sense since the literal meaning isn't related strictly to anime/manga. I've been to two conventions but that was like 8 years ago or so

I find it funny how Trekkers don't like being called Trekkies, did they not coin the phrase themselves? Ones derogative whilst the other isn't apparently but they both sound the same to me

Back to Baccano! Miria likes to end her sentences with "ne" or "da ne", half the time not even "translated" the other time it's a simple "huh?" It's just the way she speaks, she's not really asking a question or seeking confirmation.

Also I'm sure you know this but "baccano" means "ruckus" or the like in Italian

[Shirai]

Shirai is an otaku.

In JPN-land, otaku = pretty extreme fan. i.e. people who would pay 200k for a guitar signed by the VAs of K-On for example but Shirai would count too since he spends that much effort/time/money on it... but in a positive sense.
To be called an otaku in Japan... it is somewhat derogatary. Something your parents would hope you never get labeled with. Typical of how a term has different degrees of meaning across different cultures.

I hope that amount is Yen, still a lot of money but more towards an affordable amount.

The term Otaku is kinda derogatary here in Holland too, of course there are a lot of younger anime fans going around that are proudly calling themselves Otaku but we of the "older" generation like to avoid calling ourselves that because as I said before, the people we refer to as Otaku come with a severe lack of social skills and personal hygiene on top of "specific" behavioural patterns.
Behaviour patterns which even forced us to guide some of them from our conventions with the help of professional security. Permanently.

Shortly said, Otaku is not the kind of personality I want to be associated with, even though from an outside point of view I could be considered one because of the passion I have for this hobby.

In NA-NA-land, otakus are anyone who watches anime and you are all weirdo/stalkers but it's not considered that derogatory. I would call myself an otaku in NA, never in Japan. Just like anyone who steals a postage stamp (by accidentally stepping on it) and plays Counter-Strike is a delinquent made violent by playing violent video games if Reuters/CNN gets a hold of it. Perspective... and popular perception of it.

In the meantime... did you see those Trekkers in their Klingon get-up? Lol...

Ah, the other cosplayers.
But to be bluntly fair, there's people like that in every community.

[Sugami]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJrNDONICxE

"OTAKU!"
"OTAKU!"
"I've never seen one!"

Slight irony as Greg Ayres (voicing Kaoru) saying that last line has obviously seen plenty due to the conventions he's been a guest at

[Sugami]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYWyBO6dfc

Ending credits for Puella Magi Madoka Magica, rather dark for a magical girl anime

[Shirai]

http://www.tv-aichi.co.jp/wcs/2011/e/?p=411

OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!
(Yes, that's our con)