Ninja, Ranger, and Thf. The gil hole.

[Pheonixhawk]

Okay, Im about to lvl THF to 45 and Im gonna have to Sub either Ranger or Ninja to get good party invites. Any tips about which one is preferred in lvling and some tricks to save me a bit of gil along the way?

[Minagi]

Ninja is the "standard" sub, but thf/war is fine as well, as long as you know how to pull properly.

[Eviticus]

I hear people complaining about a TP nerf to low TP weapons. Apparently, there was a TP 'floor', you couldn't get less then 5tp per hit. (I heard this from a 66Thf/Nin I was partying with, not sure how accurate he is.) This floor has been removed, and low tp hits(like daggers, H2H, and fast katanas) now give TP in perportion to their delay

Meaning someone with a delay of 200 will get X TP from a hit, and someone with 400 delay will get 2X, but this is balenced out because the 400 delay hit is twice as slow. Following me? Tough.

Anyways, that's one of the reasons people went /Nin. Low delay+Haste=Unfair TP advantage over time. This was taken away.

Therefore, if you believe you are skilled enough to pull mobs without being hit, via ranged attack then running really fast, I say Sub Warrior. Berserk+Sata hurts more then just a Sata! ^.^

[Sugami]

If you're only leveling THF for a sub then you could do it to 37 with /WAR or I guess /RNG if you want to use a lot of ammo. But I think the Utsusemi protection and stat boosts from offhand weapon provide a better... boost to the job.

[Keavy]

I think PH wants Theif to 45 for Treasure Hunter 2.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

You only NEED /NIN when you are pulling Raptors. Or past L 55. (I don't know why post 55, but a good friend who is THF 74 swears by this.)

You will do more damage as /WAR. Even many RNGs are now seeing the benefits of /WAR. Berserk rules. Even before the change in the TP floor, /NIN's slightly faster TP gain did not make up for /WAR's Attack bonus and Berserk.

My melee kitty was EXPing as RNG/WAR in Garliage. The mages asked her to slow down her rate of fire. Too much damage, too much hate. Did you know that using Berserk gives a hate spike? Neither did I till then.

Look around, more and more of those who have been going /NIN for Dual Wield are going back to /WAR for damage.

But the sheer cool factor of Dual Wield can never be disputed.

[Pheonixhawk]

I think PH wants Theif to 45 for Treasure Hunter 2.

Ding Ding you win the prize. *Em hands Keavy a box of Catnip*

[Minagi]

Okay, Im about to lvl THF to 45...

I assumed that was standard because he stated it!

[Sugami]

I'd have thought Berserk would just raise the damage curve and not just spike it (like SATA would), think the ability has some hate when activated but nothing like Warcry. Clearly the raised damage put it above that of the tanks hate abilities.

For Berserk to work for RNGs it must raise Ranged Attack aswell as standard Attack, yes? Of course you can't see Ranged Attack in the equipment window.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I'd have thought Berserk would just raise the damage curve and not just spike it

I meant just fireing it off. Sequence, return with pull, take a shot, Tank Vokes, I use Sharpshot, Berserk, the mob turns to me, Barrage, shoot, Weaponskill, get smacked by mob. Its the turning to me when I fire Breserk off that clued me.

For Berserk to work for RNGs it must raise Ranged Attack aswell as standard Attack, yes? Of course you can't see Ranged Attack in the equipment window.

Yes. I do wish you could see it, other things as well.

[Sugami]

From what I've seen of playing as RNG for all of 16 levels Sharpshot seems to have a fair amount of hate behind it, obviously not as much as Provoke but probably not too far off, Berserk has minimal, just combined has that bit extra than the tank's voke.
If you were to do Berserk then Sharpshot it'd turn after Sharpshot and not Berserk

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

The Melee kitty is L 50 SAM, /RNG mostly. As SAM the mobs never blink when I use Sharpshot. Hardly ever turn when I am in fireing mode.

Come to think of it, she hardly ever takes hate as SAM/RNG which is a good thing. She dresses lightly in that mode, wearing the Jujitsu Gi for Acc rather than her checkerboard.

She pulls way more hate as RNG.

[Kintrra]

Sharpshot does pull a lot of hate, I've had RNGs who save it for WS deal out enough damage before they use that, that without letting any time to let hate die down (or for me to make more) they pop Sharpshot or another /ja and get hate. And yes, Berserk does have a small bit of hate to it, but not much, when combined with other /ja's tho, oh my. To give you an idea of how much hate it doesn't make tho, I don't bother to use it when spamming everything I have to get hate back from some psycho BLM or whoever's yanked hate. ^^;

[Sugami]

I don't bother to use it when spamming everything I have to get hate back from some psycho BLM or whoever's yanked hate. ^^;

let him die! Will teach him a lesson in how to not over-nuke

[Kintrra]

I don't bother to use it when spamming everything I have to get hate back from some psycho BLM or whoever's yanked hate. ^^;

let him die! Will teach him a lesson in how to not over-nuke

Actually now days it usually just results in me being yelled at for supposedly not holding hate well enough. <.<: Yeah, I've got around Enmity+16, I voke every 30 seconds, Flash every 45...I definitely don't hold hate. ~.~

[Keavy]

I don't bother to use it when spamming everything I have to get hate back from some psycho BLM or whoever's yanked hate. ^^;

let him die! Will teach him a lesson in how to not over-nuke

Actually now days it usually just results in me being yelled at for supposedly not holding hate well enough. <.<: Yeah, I've got around Enmity+16, I voke every 30 seconds, Flash every 45...I definitely don't hold hate. ~.~

Clearly there is more you can do: Insinuate that you and the mob's mother engage in a purely sexual relationship on a regular basis, show the mob pictures proving such a relationship does, in fact, exist. You know, the list goes on.

However...If you were me i'd /tell the BLM steal hate again and I won't even try to get it back.

[Sadira]

I really like my THF/NIN and even with the TP adjustment, its still awesome. Dual weilding Bone Knife +1, I get 9 tp the first round, 10 tp the next, 9 tp after that, etc. So if I don't miss I only end up needing 5% to one full round of tp. People on Allakhazam complain needlessly.

I've been running around Vana d'iel for a long time, so I know that even those of us who have been around the block don't necessarily know everything. So when I have a question about a job I ask people who have a lot of experience in that job. I'm only 50 on THF atm and will probably be that way for a while due to lack of time and a tendancy to do other things like crafting and farming. I'm not really looking forward to doing crabs in the 50s, but unfortunately, they are a big part of the xp at that time. So since this thread started about asking for advice on THF subs and even though I love my /NIN, it is not the end-all, be-all of subs.

For xping on crabs in the 50s, would it be better if I just switched over to my /WAR? What about gobbies? I noticed once before that dagger dmg didn't seem so great on gobs, would /WAR help there too?

I was thinking /DRK at 60 might be fun to try. At 60 THF, /DRK would give Weapon Bash, Last Resort, Soul Eater, and Physical Attack Up I & II. I guess the problem would be slower tp gain, which would most likely make THF/DRK frowned upon. Especially since the mindset of most people is that THF is obselete at 60 and we're only needed for TH2. For birds and raptors I'd still do /NIN, but post 60 I'd still like to try /DRK, might be fun. Maybe I could just make myself several Blink Bands for doing THF/DRK birds and raptors.

And one last unrelated question, is it important that I level club? I've heard talk before about using True Strike and don't know anything about when a THF should use club.

Any input on THF/DRK and my previous questions for the curious THF?

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Warrior abilities and traits:

Traits:

Physical Defense Up Warrior: L 10
Resist Virus Warrior: L 15
Double Attack Warrior: L 25
Physical Attack Up Warrior: L 30

Abilites:

Provoke Warrior: L 5
Berserk Warrior: L 15
Defender Warrior: L 25
Warcry Warrior: L 35

Ninja traits, no abilites other than 2 hour:

Stealth Ninja: 5.
Dual Wield Ninja: 10
Resist Bind Ninja: 10
Subtle Blow I Ninja: 15
Dual Wield II Ninja: 25
Resist Bind II Ninja: 30

Tell me, which of these abilites and traits will help you get a dagger through a Crab's armor?

IMHO, /NIN is for pulling Raptors, /WAR is for doing actual damage between SA/TAs.

You get Triple attack at 55, Don't know whch would be funner, Triple attack + Dual Wield or Triple attack + Double attack.

[Sadira]

There's plenty of arguments around about which is better, /NIN or /WAR, and they're never ending because people don't want to give up their positions on the matter. I don't want to have one of those arguments as I know exactly what both subs have to offer and the THF sub really just comes down to preference.

However, my concern was generally not hitting for 0 on crabs while trying to build tp. In 50 levels of THF I know that my standard melee damage isn't great, so whether its /NIN or /WAR on crabs I don't really care so long as I can still keep up with tp. So lets say we have a Dispeller and Acid bolts also (THF should always keep Marksmanship capped btw), what were the experiences of other THF's at this time?

[Sugami]

Well you got to keep in mind you standard damage will always suck, just as long as you punch out that one big number and get TP so you can do it quick enough that's the important thing.

According to that you get Dual Wield II at 50, so you should be hitting faster than your would be with /WAR. Provoding you're not hitting for 0 you'll be getting TP faster too. I also think NIN offers more DEX than WAR does, which will give you a larger SATA. If your RDM or BRD is Dispelling on time I don't see any reason why you'd hit for 0, plus should be getting a Dia II from RDM or WHM or Dia if neither is present.

I've always loved THFs on my DRG, my #1 SC buddy... actually that's after 60 when they get Assassin, I hated first voking when THFs were too slow to get SATA in anyways THFs are pretty valuable till 65/66, 60-65 they're awesome 'cause of Assassin then you get SAM/THF and DRK/THF stealing your thunder. Heck I've done a Wheeling Thrust more than SATA Shark Bite (that THF was sucky though). Really are too many THFs 65+ that can't hit 4 digits or close to it, 500-600 doesn't cut it when SAMs and DRKs are hitting 700-1200.

[Sadira]

Well you got to keep in mind you standard damage will always suck, just as long as you punch out that one big number and get TP so you can do it quick enough that's the important thing.

That was my thought too.

Tell me, which of these abilites and traits will help you get a dagger through a Crab's armor?

IMHO, /NIN is for pulling Raptors, /WAR is for doing actual damage between SA/TAs.

You get Triple attack at 55, Don't know whch would be funner, Triple attack + Dual Wield or Triple attack + Double attack.

According to that you get Dual Wield II at 50, so you should be hitting faster than your would be with /WAR. Provoding you're not hitting for 0 you'll be getting TP faster too. I also think NIN offers more DEX than WAR does, which will give you a larger SATA. If your RDM or BRD is Dispelling on time I don't see any reason why you'd hit for 0, plus should be getting a Dia II from RDM or WHM or Dia if neither is present.

Okay, so it sounds like Tsybil is leaning toward /WAR, added STR and Berserk to smash crabs. /WAR to not hit for 0, and the STR and added attack of Berserk to boost WS multipliers. Although slower tp gain with just Double Attack until I hit 55 for Triple Attack also.

Sugami is saying that as long as I'm not hitting for 0 then it doesn't matter which subjob I use.

Any thoughts on experimenting with /DRK post 60?

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

DRK abilities:

Last Resort Dark Knight: 15 Duration 30 Seconds
Weapon Bash Dark Knight: 20
Soul Eater Dark Knight: 30 Duration 1 Minute

Traits:

Physical Attack Up I Dark Knight: 10
Resist Paralysis I Dark Knight: 20
Arcana Killer Dark Knight: 25
Physical Attack Up II Dark Knight: 30

I do like the sound of Physical Attack Up, but Berserk lasts 3 Minutes. None of my characters has even unlocked DRK so here I have no experience.

[Sadira]

I do like the sound of Physical Attack Up, but Berserk lasts 3 Minutes. None of my characters has even unlocked DRK so here I have no experience.

Same here, I've never bothered to unlock DRK on any of my characters. For /WAR though at level 60 you'd only get Physical Attack Up I and not II. I'm not familiar with how much of an attack boost you get from 1 and II though. So yeah, Berserk might end up being better than having Physical Attack Up II. Not to mention going /DRK means losing out on Dual Wield for /NIN or Berserk and Double Attack for /WAR, hence, a bit slower tp gain and maybe lese damage overall(?). But every 5-6 minutes I bet that SATA+Souleater+Last Resort+WS really kicks ass.

Might be fun to try...but maybe not worth it overall.

[Pheonixhawk]

Any tips about which one is preferred in lvling and some tricks to save me a bit of gil along the way?

Its nice talking about lvling and all. but let me emphasize a bit.

to save me a bit of gil along the way?

Its nice knowing about lvling. But do you guys have any tips on saving some gil. example: Items or scrolls I should just skip, quests, etc. etc.

[ScarlettPheonix]

As a general rule, buy from a NPC rather then the AH. You still need to be careful but spells will normally be cheaper at the NPC vendor.

Aspir, Warp and the teleports can be quested. Phalanx and Erase are bcnm drops. There is alot of mage gear that can be quested or that the HQ version is so ungodly priced that you can get the NQ for cheap.

I personally skipped all the bar spells and phalanx when I first started levelling rdm but I really can't recommend others to do the same. If used properly a well casted bar spell can save a lot of downtime and frusteration, even if its just for your own benefit.

Always remember to grab signet or sanction, the crystals are good for selling and CP point items can usually be sold for nice profits.

HELM, choco digging, farming, NM camping and crafting are all tried and true methods of steady gil.

If you're on regularly you can also try gardening. Seeds are easy to come by~ sapling drop them~ and you can grow sellable items with very little effort. Tree cuttings (goobues drop these) take about 20 days to grow into saplings but a stack of tree saplings goes for 250k easy on my server atm. Back when prices were sky high at Christmas, they were selling for 500k a stack.

Use the seals you've been saving since level one. Under Observation is a favorite of mine, lvl 40 cap and very easy. Petrfying Pair (lvl 30) is another easy one. The lvl 20 ones drop mannequin parts. The head, body and hands are all selling for over a million on my server currently.

Try to interest you friends into doing ENM runs, the lvl 30 ones are veeerrrrry easy and if you have access there are the ENMs in Monarch Linn and the Shrouded Maw.

Lots of ways to make gil in game if you know where to look to start^^

Hope this helps some

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Its nice knowing about lvling. But do you guys have any tips on saving some gil. example: Items or scrolls I should just skip, quests, etc. etc.

The only truly usless spell I know is Deodorize. You can skip the -ga spells for a LONG time.

The Bar- spells are half of why I think Elementals are the natural prey of the RDM. Unfortunatly crystal prices have plumeted due to the new X360 players and all the new CORs, PUPs, and BLUs leveling. /sigh

I suppose I know more about making Gil than saving it, but I always lowball bid and then work up. I have gotten some NICE things at 10 - 30% of the AH price, enough that I can shrug off the occasional AH blunder.

Expendable Mules are a good way to make Gil. A Bastok mule can repeat Mom, the Adventurer? http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests.ht ... fquest=155 untill she is at Fame 2, then do Mean Machine for the Warp Scroll. If you buy the ring at the Jewelery Shop, not the Guild, you will make ~ 130 Gil and a Fire Crystal each time. Of course this is peanuts compared to the Scroll.

[Sadira]

Its nice knowing about lvling. But do you guys have any tips on saving some gil. example: Items or scrolls I should just skip, quests, etc. etc.

For RDM, pretty much what they said. But I'd like to add that for your regular run of the mill party, Shell is pretty useless too. Also if you're not main healing you can delay getting those new Protect spells right away. And you should know by now, MND gear, INT gear, extra mp gear for convert; basic RDM. You can delay on nukes for awhile if you wanted, maybe get things like Water II and Blizzard II since Distortion is the norm. Quest Aspir, Drain, and Warp. Refresh is usually cheap. You don't need Phalanx right away. Honestly, its not very effective early on since its related to your enhancing skill. Dispel, you probably have it, otherwise get a friend with max fame to buy it at a cheaper price from npc...still like 63k though or something like that. When you hit 51, 3 basic elemental staves you'll need, Dark, Light, Ice... in that order. After that, a Wind staff is useful and then the other staves if you feel like getting them.

And for NIN, since you might only be leveling it for THF at the moment, Utsusemi is the only important one, but you can quest that along with the other NIN Ichi enfeebles that you will definitely need to start using if you level NIN past 25. For Tenshodo fame, do the quest in Bastok to trade 4 zinc ores at a time. With 0 Tenshodo fame, it'll take about 28-30 trades of 4 zincs each. After that, I recommend doing the Tonko: Ichi quest first. This is cheaper and faster than Yagudo Necklaces.

Items, I assume you mean maybe equipment? For THF, its pretty standard. Up to 45 you don't need to worry about accuracy stuff. Cap your marksmenship though and carry acid bolts at least. In the Jungle as THF, you can and probably will end up tanking...to the surprise and possible annoyance of the tank. So bloody bolts are recommended too. At least that's how it was for me 24-30. And for any job, Gobbie bags are recommended.

Gotta be more specific with your requests.

[Sugami]

Actually the 4 elemental staves a RDM should have are; Dark, Ice, Earth and Wind. The rest are extras but those 4 will boost the 4 main enfeebles.

Barspells are pretty useless since the WHM can do them all anyways. Especially stuff like Barvirus and Barpetri, even Barsleep and Barsilence... they never seem to help anyways.

As for subbing DRK; it holds no weight over WAR, none whatsoever. For a start Souleater is majorly gimped as a sub and Double Attack is a much more useful trait. Also WAR has more DEX than DRK so you'd hit more often and punch better SATAs.

NIN is the way to go for three reasons;
1) Dual Wield means faster TP gain.
2) Dual Wield means nice stat boosts from offhand weapon.
3) Utsusemi for long pulls.
(I know I mention Dual Wield twice but it's benefits are twofold, plus you look cool )

[ScarlettPheonix]

I'm going to disagree with you about the staves.

Dark, Light, Ice and personal choice after that is best in my opinion.

Dark for resting and dark based spells.

Light since we are often back up or main healers and getting the 10% more healing is a very good thing. At the level we get the staves white mages don't have the MP pool, Cure V, Regen III or the later equipments that let them main heal without any effort or much need for back up healing. This is also the point where white mages start using Erase heavily. The 50-60 stretch was where I did alot of healing and the Light Staff was a great investment.

Ice because of the 10% boost to Ice spells (<3 paralyze) but also the 10 Elemental Skill+. Rdms Elemental skill is behind enhancing and enfeebling and the Ice staff gives us our first real strong boost to it, several levels before getting the boost our AF hat gives.

I personally went Dark, Light, Ice and Water for the longest time. I can't say the lack of Earth or Wind staffs hurt my resist rate on slow, silence or gravity. If it did, I didn't notice a difference when I finally got the staves. The difference I did notice was between Aero III without Wind Staff and Aero III with Wind Staff, but then thats to be expected.

Again, about the bar spells. Skip them if you want, I don't recommend it but you can. WHMs may have the ra versions but you may not get the effect if your standing back away from the melee or they may not cast it at all for whatever reason.

Barfire can save you from a gobby bomb, the new fire breathing crawlers and bombs self-destruct when you go after the LB1 items. Barwater against crabs, barwater and barpoison against crawlers or spiders. Or for spiders, barstone for more resist against slow. Baraero and barsilence for silence moves, Imps and Anticans have AoE versions and the Antican one is freakin hard to avoid. So, lots of uses for the bar spells and I really wish I had bothered to get them earlier.

[Sugami]

Water? What use is that? 3rd from lost Staff I got, only useful for Poison and Water.
You really should be standing out of the AoE range of stuff, also Stoneskin will absorb quite a lot of it if you're not (can cast in between Refresh).

Think order I got my staves was: Ice -> Wind -> Dark -> Earth -> Light -> Water -> Fire -> Thunder. Had the whole set by 60 the latest, possibly around 55ish but was a while back so can't remember.

Ice was the substitute for nukes if I didn't have the right one. And it has been proved that the corresponding elemental staff for that spell boosts it, so there definately would have been a boost to sticking and duration of Enfeebles whether you noticed it or not.

Heck even with all the Magic Acc+ from JSE and the Staves I still get resisted on Para and Slow more then I care to count on ITs.