WARNING! DO NOT USE THE FFXI WINDOWER!

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:44 am

Dogma wrote:
Prrsha wrote:
Dogma wrote:Well guess Im a cheater, I <3 my windower
The new windower has plug ins that by definition are cheating plugins. If you have them installed you are cheating plain and simple. You rate up there with cheaters who use 3rd party aim bot/hack/cheat programs. If all of the people who used those programs to cheat were wiped off the internet I wouldn't shead a single tear. It would be a better place without them. People like that ruin multiplayer games.
and your opinion affects me how?

I'll let the chips fall where they may.

Kotomo · Post by **Kotomo** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:03 am

When you get caught with something illegal like the windower, right then and there is not the tim to argue with the GM's Same thing in real life with Officers. If you argue it only makes things worse. The time to argue is when your not in those situations, creat orginizations for what you believe in and protest your thoughts to politicians, if they are listening

I honestly think that people who want a window mode in FFXI should e-mail the FFXI developement team, if that's possible or start an online petition for it and send it to them. I can't think of why they have not put that feature in the game since EQ has it and Guild Wars, I figure every other MMO out there has it =/ Perhaps there is some security risk with it, I don't know.

When you connect to FFXI they can see what Operating system you are running, your IP adress and your version of the game, be it PS2 version or Windows version. When you use third party programs such as the windower they take some control over the game so the third party program is also sent over the internet with the game's information. They don't need to scan your computer. Plus no one here knows what kind of administration they have set up on the other end or what kind of software the GM's use. But I'm sure they all have the power to talk to each client that is currently connected to their servers.

Whose software is it we all use? Square Enix's of course, and no one else's. They own it, not us. We don't have any rights to alter the source code to the game, hack it legally or use third party programs that overide certain functions of the game. FFXI is not Open Source and has not been released under the GNU license. We are only aloud to use it as is once we have paid money for it and that's it. Now I'm all for free and open source software but when it comes to online games that can be hard to do since everyone and their uncle would be cheating and the developers would not be able to stop it, heh, because the source code is open and free to anyone.

So yeah, I have two computers at my desk, I don't need a windower. However I think they are dense for not integrating a windowed mode for FFXI.

LostDream · Post by **LostDream** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:22 am

Im haveing trobels getting access to playonline. I think they baned my acount.

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:27 am

It's the update patch. PoL is clogged ATM.

LostDream · Post by **LostDream** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:09 am

Im afraid of this patch right now and how it is affecting everything. I was given pacific instructions by my cousin Krystie to look after her acount until she comes back. I worrie for her happiness and want her to get better and she is every day, even though i havent been able to play in the past 3days because of long work hours.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:15 am

Dogma wrote:Well guess Im a cheater, I <3 my windower

Just remember, there's a price for everything.

If someone gives away free software for you to use, at the very least, they have to pay the cost of letting you download that software.

What's their incentive to give you free software if it costs them money to give it to you?

Maybe it's because the Windower could secretly install things to spy on you. Or maybe the Windower can let strangers access your computer, allowing them engage in illegal activity through it on the Internet, and make it look like you're to blame.

How would you be able to tell?

I'd never use free software from an unknown person on the Internet anymore than I'd invite a perfect stranger to borrow my computer for awhile.

It's pretty much the same thing, when you think about it

Edit: Fixed spelling and grammar mistakes

LostDream · Post by **LostDream** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:37 am

I know their updating playonline, but everytime it tells me Incorrect playonline 1d or password

this is maken me very sad

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:01 am

Kintrra wrote:
Baketsu wrote:Go dumpster diving and find an old PC/laptop that will run a webrowser/IM and problem solved.
Yes, because we all live near a place that throws laptops out all the time. I think not perhaps, yes?

A local computer surplus / recycle shop has Pent III laptops for under $200 right now.

Shentino wrote:Dumpster diving is theft. It remains property of the company that discarded it until such time as it is picked up, at which point it becomes the property of the garbage company.

Just NOT so. It depends on where you live. In Seattle they made an anti Dumpster diving law in 1969 as an anti hippy law. But in most places dunpster diving is legeal. If is isn't open and legal, the cops need a search warrant to go through your garbage. This keeps it legal in most jurisdictions. Cops love dumpester diving even more than the hippies ever did. Almost as much as they love doughnuts and cooping.

Vixen · Post by **Vixen** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:39 am

Maybe it's because the Windower could secretly install things to spy on you. Or maybe the Windower can let strangers access your computer, allowing them engage in illegal activity through it on the Internet, and make it look like you're to blame.

How would you be able to tell?

http://virusscan.jotti.org/

Post by **Tivia** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:33 pm

This is getting fairly entertaining.

Thanatos02 · Post by **Thanatos02** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:00 pm

Shentino wrote:Dumpster diving is theft. It remains property of the company that discarded it until such time as it is picked up, at which point it becomes the property of the garbage company.

Maybe. Maybe not, depending on the area.
I cannot say why anyone would care that you are stealing the crap they threw out. Likewise, I could care less. /shrug

It's one of those things.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:39 pm

Vixen wrote:
Maybe it's because the Windower could secretly install things to spy on you. Or maybe the Windower can let strangers access your computer, allowing them engage in illegal activity through it on the Internet, and make it look like you're to blame.

How would you be able to tell?
http://virusscan.jotti.org/

http://virusscan.jotti.org/ wrote:Disclaimer

This service is by no means 100% safe. If this scanner says 'OK', it does not necessarily mean the file is clean. There could be a whole new virus on the loose.

Vixen · Post by **Vixen** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:40 pm

There could be a whole new virus on the loose.

Yep, with the thousands of people using archbell's windower at this moment, I'm sure there's some unknown virus never before seen.

If there was some virus infected in windower, it would be found out. If you arn't D/Ling it from the windower's main site, then that maybe the problem?

Oh and

What's their incentive to give you free software if it costs them money to give it to you?

I dunno, maybe allow everyone to enjoy game more then they would without FFXI windowed? Some people do like to there help others ~_~. Why do you help others when it will take time out of your hands? Maybe so others can enjoy themselves and give you there graditude?

Post by **Tivia** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:03 pm

What's their incentive to give you free software if it costs them money to give it to you?

Simply put?

Because I enjoyed it. It really is amazing what some people will do for simple personal enjoyment. I have released tons of free software over the years simply for the fun of it.

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:50 pm

I'm not saying there aren't nice people out there who like to give of themselves.

Look at this message board, for example

But, while it's true that if you lent your computer to a perfect stranger, they might give you cookies and be your best friend afterwards... it's much more likely they'll run off with it and take advantage of you.

All I'm saying is be careful.

You can avoid trouble if you don't invite it in the first place

Tigermilk · Post by **Tigermilk** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:29 am

I'm new to FFXI on PC but not new to the game... I was wondering about using Japanese text input. In order to do this with the American version of the game do you have to modify it in any way that would make it look like you may be trying to cheat? Since it looks like you're trying to cheat by just making it so you can open up IRC or Explorer while playing I'm a bit skeptical about it... I think it's really weak that you can get in trouble just for having it so you can open other programs while running FFXI. To me it makes no sense that running FFXI in a window means you might be cheating... You can run other games like WoW in a window and there are no botters in those games...

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:54 pm

Tigermilk wrote:You can run other games like WoW in a window and there are no botters in those games...

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:35 pm

Tigermilk wrote:

You can run other games like WoW in a window and there are no botters in those games...

HAHAHAHA, where are you playing, every online game has bots, EQ EQ2 WoW FFXI DAOC and even UO.........

Post by **Tivia** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:58 pm

Tigermilk wrote:You can run other games like WoW in a window and there are no botters in those games...

*Blink**

Run that by me one more time?

Tigermilk · Post by **Tigermilk** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:54 am

Ok then I guess the game (WoW) is set up in a different way so if there are bots it isn't really obvious at first... As much as I have played the game I haven't noticed it myself but maybe that means I haven't seen enough yet... But this does't answer my original question:

Can you use a third party program to let you input text in Japanese in the American version of the game without having it look like you are cheating from the other end?

or...

Is it even possible to use a Japanese text input program with FFXI PC?

Thanks!

Post by **sakono** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:02 am

i think you have to have the jap. ver. of the game.... though from what i hear and seen they can use english letter along with katangana and hinragana and kanji symbols... which i don't think is fare.. if they can use bolth we should be able to use bolth... even though the english letter are for romonji which i know very little but still..

Post by **Tivia** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:18 pm

Tigermilk wrote:Ok then I guess the game (WoW) is set up in a different way so if there are bots it isn't really obvious at first... As much as I have played the game I haven't noticed it myself but maybe that means I haven't seen enough yet... But this does't answer my original question:

Can you use a third party program to let you input text in Japanese in the American version of the game without having it look like you are cheating from the other end?

or...

Is it even possible to use a Japanese text input program with FFXI PC?

Thanks!

The term that comes to mind is oblivious. Nothing personal but a simple AH scan in wow and you can figure out who the botters are in seconds.

To answer your question specifically, Download the JP POL client and install it, then install your regular FFXI in that. You will need to enable the Japanese language pack in Windows and then you can switch between Kanji, and Romanji with ease. There was a walk through somewhere on this I do not remember at the moment, try googling it.

Fayin · Post by **Fayin** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:31 am

I leave for a month and this happens. /sigh

A plug-in option for the windower is just begging to be used for cheating. Was that the goal of the creator of the windower? Before this, the windower was kinda like a fly buzzing around SE's head. Sure SE swatted lazily at it but hey, it was just a fly. Square had it's attention on things like bots, and dupe sploits, and gilsellers and such. You know, real problems. Then the fly bit SE. Now all third party apps are seen as a real problem, including the benign ones.

All I wanted was a simple windower so I could use my computer as as a computer, and not as an overpriced console.

Neoshinobi · Post by **Neoshinobi** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:31 pm

Fayin wrote:I leave for a month and this happens. /sigh

A plug-in option for the windower is just begging to be used for cheating. Was that the goal of the creator of the windower? Before this, the windower was kinda like a fly buzzing around SE's head. Sure SE swatted lazily at it but hey, it was just a fly. Square had it's attention on things like bots, and dupe sploits, and gilsellers and such. You know, real problems. Then the fly bit SE. Now all third party apps are seen as a real problem, including the benign ones.

All I wanted was a simple windower so I could use my computer as as a computer, and not as an overpriced console.

If SE was anything like me that fly would have been dead long ago...

Lets go with a chameleon shall we, in that the windower had many different faces (the people using it) and never actually had the need to surface and show itself. But now, that chameleon has become your common anole in that theres only 2 sides of this issue, those who are with the change and those who are against the change.

And I for one don't give a sh*t about either.

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:49 am

Well, here's my take on the whole plugin dealie. I do agree that adding a plugin interface is just asking for cheating to occur, but this then brings to mind the question of "what is cheating" by ffxi standards.

Now, I for one see cheating as for instance: knowing when and where a mob will pop, or having a system in which you use super jump just as the screen reads: (name) readies such-and-such-WS. Now, there are people that will do that, and there is really nothing we can do about that. Cliff, Azaril, and the rest of the gang meant this as a means to improve your gaming experience, and I see it more as an extention of the whole concept of putting FFXI in a window.

Then again, what I am sick of, are people raging about how they should shut down the entire windower project, and that they are going to the equivalent of ffxi hell for doing so. There's also the type that keeps saying: I want my windower with no bells and whistles, (I'm about to make an @ss of myself here) guess what? There's this wonderful notion called "commenting out". Yes, this little "//" can be the difference between your windower having plugins or not, you don't have to go on your little crusade to stop everyone from using it. Mind your own beeswax already! (end @ssness).

Besides, having a nice little *bing* play when I recieve a /tell is rather nice. I mean, working on something else while I wait for an invite? Amazing!

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:30 pm

Lihera wrote:Then again, what I am sick of, are people raging about how they should shut down the entire windower project, and that they are going to the equivalent of ffxi hell for doing so. There's also the type that keeps saying: I want my windower with no bells and whistles, (I'm about to make an @ss of myself here) guess what? There's this wonderful notion called "commenting out". Yes, this little "//" can be the difference between your windower having plugins or not, you don't have to go on your little crusade to stop everyone from using it. Mind your own beeswax already! (end @ssness).

The problem is that this program has dual uses. That’s what everyone is upset about.

What if I made a program that sounded a ding every time you got a tell but it also duped items and I bundled it into one program? I could go around spouting "Well, it's a /tell notifier not an item duping program! You could always CHOOSE not to use the item duping part of it!"

Yeah sure right... Any GM with half a brain SHOULD ban someone for running that program. Why? Because they COULD be using it to dupe items. You can't have an honor system with third party programs like that because people will always abuse it.

If Archbell was really concerned about making a harmless windower, he could do so easily. He has chosen not to and has crossed the line from a harmless program to a cheat utility. SE would be stupid not to intervene here.

And it is my "beeswax" BTW just as much as it is yours. I play FFXI just as you do and this program alters the way it is played.

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:40 pm

Prrsha wrote:Yeah sure right... Any GM with half a brain SHOULD ban someone for running that program. Why? Because they COULD be using it to dupe items. You can't have an honor system with third party programs like that because people will always abuse it.

Now, this is where the entire flaw in my argument is. The people who will abuse the program will have it killed for the rest of us who want to change the application for beneficial purposes.

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:18 pm

Lihera wrote:
Prrsha wrote:Yeah sure right... Any GM with half a brain SHOULD ban someone for running that program. Why? Because they COULD be using it to dupe items. You can't have an honor system with third party programs like that because people will always abuse it.
Now, this is where the entire flaw in my argument is. The people who will abuse the program will have it killed for the rest of us who want to change the application for beneficial purposes.

Which is why Archbell dug his own grave when he added plug-ins to it. If he wanted it to be a windower he should have kept it as such and not have added anything else.

Post by **Mystiana** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:24 am

This would make a difference if Square Enix hadn't backed off the use of utlities like these plugins. Re-read the agreements to play the game, and find me some text that bans the use of the plugins, let alone the windower itself. ^^

Prrsha · Post by **Prrsha** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:52 am

Firemyst wrote:This would make a difference if Square Enix hadn't backed off the use of utlities like these plugins. Re-read the agreements to play the game, and find me some text that bans the use of the plugins, let alone the windower itself. ^^

Ask and you shall receive:

Rules of Conduct

The following are against the Rules of Conduct:

-Using any programs not specified or provided by Square Enix

-Using a third party equipment and/or programs for controlling in-game characters without being physically present in front of the game terminal (i.e. using "bots")

License Agreement

2-4 Restrictions

To the maxium extent permitted by law, you may not:

(a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software.

User Agreement

3-1 Prohibited Activities

(g) Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices.

There are many other examples in the rules you agreed to but most people don't look far enough (or want to).