Qufim + DRG = Problem?

[Sirc]

I was playing with a party last night that was very laid back, not doing any SCs, and while we were getting exp chains, it was because we were fighting mostly VTs with only the occasional IT. Okay, that was cool. Personally I'd rather lvl up that way and have it take a bit longer than be in an intense party that demands perfection from everyone and bitches if you miss a SK. Well actually, being a MNK I wasn't gonna be in any SC that they would want to do anyway.

But here's the thing. We lost a melee, I think it was our WAR, but we had me, a DRK and a RNG besides the mages. (Actually we started with another MNK but he dropped out when he realized he wasn't hitting anything. I'm +STR to the max and using Mithkabobs, while the other MNK had crappy gear and no food. ^^ But I digress).

So anyway, here we were one member short, but really not having that much of a problem anyway because we were being conservative. Then this DRG comes along, walks right up to us, and asks if he can join us. Well, I just assumed the leader would invite him. But everyone ignored the DRG. Then he asked again, and no one said anything, and I'm like, "Erm, why don't we let him join?" The answer was "He wouldn't fit in." WTH? We were doing okay with 5 in our party. Would a DRG have screwed things up? I don't think so. I felt really bad about this. Then the DRG finally said "I guess not" and then left. Not a word from the party leader the whole time.

So what's the deal? This really sucked for me and didn't feel right at all. Can someone tell me why this happened, or was our party leader just a shmuck?

[Prrsha]

It was because you were fighting IT mobs. They didn't feel that the DRG was worth the risk coupled with the exp loss. Some people really need to lighten up though when it comes to parties. Part of the problem is that people are obsessed with killing mobs that are way out of their league.

[Sirc]

It was because you were fighting IT mobs. They didn't feel that the DRG was worth the risk coupled with the exp loss.

Explain this please. What risk? Especially in our party. I'm not questioning your answer, I just don't understand.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I will just bet your party leader is a regular on GameFAQs.

There is an incredable amount of anti Dragoon predjudice on that board. The basic feeling there seems to be DRG is a horridly gimped job no mater how well equipped.

Another theory:

Because DRG is the favorite job of Gil farmers* many suspect EVERY DRG they do not personaly know of being a Gil farmer, and will neither invite them nor give them any assistance whatsoever.

*And if it is such a lousy job, why do so many Gil farmers use it?

[Baketsu]

I lead a party in Quifim about a month ago and I had 2 Dragoons in my party and we kicked some major butt, so I have no idea why you were having difficulty.

On another note, I was in Yhoator Jungle the other night and the following party,

2 LVL 25 WAR
1 LVL 24 DRG
1 LVL 25 MNK
1 LVL 25 NIN
1 LVL 25 RDM (This was me of course)

I was the primary healer and we didn't even need a WHM, I even got a few swings in on the mobs while I was in the middle of healing, I had enough MP to debuf the mob and heal the group and enthunder my sword and keep the mobs comming, of curse the thing that really helped us was that the NIN was sub Warrior and have really great evasion and coupl provoke the poor mob, but the mob couldn't hit her!! LOL, it was sooo very funny.

[Lihera]

on another note, I was in a pt:

DRG/WHM
DRG/WHM
DRG/WHM
NIN/WAR
THF/WAR - Me

We were gettin 6k an hour in qfirm offa pugs. Man I loved that pt...

[Ephi]

i got DRG just this morning (4am)
it was fun...had a lvl 71 SMN & a 69 BLM help
+while runnin around gettin the other stuff done the SMN was a 75 BRD...
ever Flee with Mazurka on

[Mystiana]

Basically your party leader was a jerk.

[Prrsha]

Basically your party leader was a jerk.

Prrretty much.

[Sivara]

Indeed. I don't understand all the DRG hate. It's stupid, and yes, it's fueled by morons such as those on the GameFAQs board who preach that because DRG (and other jobs) were adjusted on mutil-hit WS TP gain, DRG are gimped.

Think of it this way: when you invite a DRG, you get a two-for-the-price-of-one deal. The wyvern can hit pretty hard, especially if your DRG has good CHR or eats CHR boosting food like Tuna Sushi. The wyvern also does a good breath attack with every one of the DRG's WSes. Later on, DRG can sub WHM or RDM and serve as a healer in the group.

[Maezen]

I play DRG, and I haven't heard about the theory of the wyvern's damage being tied to charisma...do you have the link to where you found that info? {i'm interested}.

back on the topic of this thread...I'm generally one cheering on fellow dragoons, it's part of the job's culture but i feel sadened by the dragoons out there that shout for parties...hell i hate anyone shouting for a party in the xp zone. Luckily for the dragoon, we can solo while lfg

also fyi, there are some ok rants/posts on Alla about the dragoon job. I can only speak for myself, but I play the job not for the xp or the party invites but because I love the job and I like the challenge. Play the game as you want to and please, have fun doing it

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Indeed. I don't understand all the DRG hate. It's stupid, and yes, it's fueled by morons such as those on the GameFAQs board who preach that because DRG (and other jobs) were adjusted on mutil-hit WS TP gain, DRG are gimped.

I hate to say this, but the GameFAQs DRG predjuce started about 5 minuets after the NA release, and long before multi hit Weapon Skills were nerfed TP gain wise.

[Lihera]

people are just jealous, thats all

[Sigyn]

Let me start off by saying that normally, I will avoid DRGs in a party for a few reasons, none of them truly job-related.

I have YET to meet a dragoon who did not think that a) they were Altana's Gift to Vana'diel, or b) either did not know, or chose to ignore, the role they play in a party or the role that other's play. Examples:

- When I play THF, the DRG will camp directly behind the mob, even after repeatedly saying "move"

- As RNG, The DRG refuses to be first voke, to set up the fuidama, or to be the second trick buddy when he knows that High Jump removes all hate.

- DRG's also will Jump when it's not needed, screwing up the hate that is needed.

- That damned lizard gets in the way ALL THE TIME.

There are a litany of others, but to make it brief, I have YET (and I have been with a lot of them) to find a DRG that is in any way shape or form, willing to be a "team player" in a party. I groan everytime there's a DRG in the party, because I've stopped hoping that the DRG won't be a "'goon". To all DRGs: If you have some love affair with your job, fine. But realize that you are not the end-all, be-all of the game. You are NOT the best job in the game, and there's a reason why people don't want your job.

As far as DD, I'd rather have a DRK or THF to SC with RNG...
As far as all-around utility characters, I'd rather have a RDM.

So Dragoons, please remember, a little humility goes a long way, and if you don't want to be an active part of the party dynamics, stay the hell out of those of us who are.

[Shirai]

Let me start off by saying that normally, I will avoid DRGs in a party for a few reasons, none of them truly job-related.

I have YET to meet a dragoon who did not think that a) they were Altana's Gift to Vana'diel, or b) either did not know, or chose to ignore, the role they play in a party or the role that other's play. Examples:

- When I play THF, the DRG will camp directly behind the mob, even after repeatedly saying "move"

- As RNG, The DRG refuses to be first voke, to set up the fuidama, or to be the second trick buddy when he knows that High Jump removes all hate.

- DRG's also will Jump when it's not needed, screwing up the hate that is needed.

- That damned lizard gets in the way ALL THE TIME.

There are a litany of others, but to make it brief, I have YET (and I have been with a lot of them) to find a DRG that is in any way shape or form, willing to be a "team player" in a party. I groan everytime there's a DRG in the party, because I've stopped hoping that the DRG won't be a "'goon". To all DRGs: If you have some love affair with your job, fine. But realize that you are not the end-all, be-all of the game. You are NOT the best job in the game, and there's a reason why people don't want your job.

As far as DD, I'd rather have a DRK or THF to SC with RNG...
As far as all-around utility characters, I'd rather have a RDM.

So Dragoons, please remember, a little humility goes a long way, and if you don't want to be an active part of the party dynamics, stay the hell out of those of us who are.

I see your dislike towards DRGs does not lie in the job itself but in the people doing it.
And yes I completely agree with you because a lot of people just become drg because they look cool doing it.....
I understand that completely, but my love for DRGs has not gone.
I've partied with some very good ones that actually know their jobs and do awesome damage onto mobs.

I myself don't really care about which skillchains are used.
as long as the mob dies quickly enough to chain another, I'm happy.

But yes, I have to agree on the lizzard getting in the way sometimes.

[Maezen]

it appears you have had some bad dealings with other dragoons, for that i'm sorry...if you choose not to play with other dragoons that your choice but I do hope you keep an open mind...maybe one time you WILL find a dragoon that knows what it is they're doing. I apologize for the wyvern getting in the way to anyone i play with but...it's what makes the dragoon a dragoon...maybe someday SE will fix the wyvern issue and make it so he can't be targetted by players...I mean it's not like we can heal him or anything anyways...but again, as a dragoon, I'm sorry you've run across stuck up dragoons.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

DRGs and Qufim, odd party story department.

Running my Elvann PLD from 22 - 24.

Party:
Elvan PLD as DD, Greatsword, Mithkababs, 102ish MPs.
Galka PLD, tank, 48 MPs
2 Elvaan DRG/WHMs, 40 or so MPs each.
Galka DRK/WAR.
Hume straight melee. I forget the exact job.

Yes, with four whole Cure IIs my Elvaan was main healer. But it worked. Only eight Cure IIs between us all, but it worked.

The DRGs were enough more healing that we could do without a traditional healer.

Even if the lizzards did get in the way sometimes.

[Sirc]

I just happened to have partied with a DRG last night. The DRG seemed to be very effective and I'd say he contributed to the party's success as much as anyone else.

I asked the DRG if he has problems getting parties, and he answered "No, not at all". Then the WHM said "That's because I always invite you." I thought that was kinda funny.

[Maezen]

hehe it IS nice having a partner to level up with, personally I level with a RDM that will never leave me behind (partial statics are ALWAYS nice to have) I hate being useless to a party, so I learned to carry a variety of gear with me, cook, leveled every decent subjob that dragoons can use, and learned how to pull to get xp chains going. While I'm not as great a puller for a party as a thief or ranger (i almost always take damage during the pull, the jump range is shorter than a ranged weapon), i can get by and I try to help the party out as best I can...but i can't say all dragoons out there try as hard as I do

[Dukuji]

I like PTing with DRGs, I find them very effective (I like how their wyvern's role changes with the sub; very versatile). They and their Wyvern do great damage without going on a crazy hate spree in which the tank (usually me; hey it happens) looses hate and the mages end up dead.

I also think that DRG's, like Ninja, have a very fine line between decent and excellent; when you get a good one, look out! (Btw, all jobs have this line, but for some reason I've noticed it's a very fine one for the two jobs I mentioned )

I'd rather lvl up that way and have it take a bit longer than be in an intense party that demands perfection from everyone and bitches if you miss a SK

AMEN, sister, AMEN! I learned this a few nights ago. 6k+ xp an hour but . . . I couldn't act like 'Kuji, I had to act the way they wanted . . .

people are just jealous, thats all

hehehehe . . . this I believe . . .


Above all though, it's the person behind the keyboard that makes the character who they are. No matter how many Snipers rings or fancy staves they may have.

[Ephi]

- When I play THF, the DRG will camp directly behind the mob, even after repeatedly saying "move"

um...SATA... the TA part worx best when ur BEHIND a pt member...
so basically to get SATA to work to the fullest...
u gotta be behind a pt member behind a mob...

i dont see the THFs problem in this situation... cept the fact that the THF is tellin the DRG to move

[Sigyn]

um...SATA... the TA part worx best when ur BEHIND a pt member...
so basically to get SATA to work to the fullest...
u gotta be behind a pt member behind a mob...

i dont see the THFs problem in this situation... cept the fact that the THF is tellin the DRG to move[/quote]

I'm not 30 THF yet.

[Sivara]

I play DRG, and I haven't heard about the theory of the wyvern's damage being tied to charisma...do you have the link to where you found that info? {i'm interested}.

Actually, I don't have a link offhand. This was based on what a DRG friend told me. I think he's about lv. 58 now. He said that he had heard that CHR affected the wyvern's performance, so he did an experiment. He ate Sole Sushi, then recorded his and the wyvern's damage until the food wore. Then he ate Tuna Sushi (like the Sole but with +CHR as well), and recorded the damage for the duration of the food. I don't remember the exact numbers he gave me (he was babbling excitedly) but the difference was significant...maybe 30-40 more damage per hit for the wyvern around lv. 53 or 54.

And Sigyn: the same complaints have been made about RNGs; that they think they are gods, that they are more concerned about yanking hate off the tank to prove how "uber" they are, that they don't respect others' roles, etc. It's the player, not the job.

[Holydragoon]

I'll defend DRG till the day I die

That being said, it really is the player that makes the DRG. I've seen some very stuck up DRGs out there, and they ruin it for the good ones. I always get looks when I go around as a DRG/WHM and save people's party's. A raise here and there, always no charge. I have always expected a dragoon to have honour, and I play my character as such. Most people I party with welcome me back with open arms.

The CHR tie in to wyvern dmg is interesting, I'm going to have to test that myself.

As for parties, there have been a few times when they are tough to get. Be versitile, carry at least an offensive sub and a support sub, this way you can adjust to a party's need.

I think that's it for now

[Karou Ariyen]

Agreed, ALl the DRGs I've ever PTed with have been the most effective.... ITs jsut that They dont give them credit for it, but oh well, most players dont think in XI, at least all the kitties of mithrapride DO think, well Markov on the other hand...

[Holydragoon]

WE kitties should take on a secret mission!

spread the cheer of Dragoons!

[kashell]

First off I should mention I haven't really exped with a drg in about...5 months, so this stuff could have changed a bit but I did have a static with a dragoon from 63-75 although honestly if I could I would have rather had a drk

I'm personally not very fond of drgs, I'll admit during lower lvls they can do pretty good damage, but around lvl 60+ is where they really start to fall behind. Most people compared drgs to drks and at lvl 60+ drks simply get ws that are a lot better then the ones drgs get. Drks get 'guillotine' and drgs get 'skewer' and guillotine is by far a much better weapon skill then skewer and it only get's worse from there. At lvl 66 drks get 'spinning slash' and drgs get 'wheeling thrust', with SATA a drk can easily pull off 1000+ damage with spinning slash, I can't remember for sure but I don't recall our drg ever pulling off more then maybe 400 dmg with wheeling thrust and I don't believe wheeling thrust stacks very well with SATA so drgs can't do that.

Because of the incredible damage spinning slash does it's generally used to close the lvl 3 light skill chain, the damage from lvl 3 chains are based off the damage done by the person closing the chain so with a drk closing the chain it's possible to do another 1000 dmg from skill chain damage.

Another reason drgs fall behind in damage later on isn't really their fault, they simply can't use the damage increasing armor like the Byrnie(Lv 60 +20 attack) or the Haubergeon (Lv 55 +10 attack +10 acc) while drk, war, sams and even plds and nins can wear them, so now not only do war and drks already have better weapon skills but they will be hitting more accurately/harder because they can use these armors. Why SE didn't let drg use these armor I don't know.

The best thing about drg I'll admit is that he makes the best trick partner for thfs and drk/thfs with super jump but that's really the only thing I find redeeming about this job. I also like the sound of drg/whm...but since I have yet to actually seen that in action I can't really comment on that.

[Maezen]

Kashell come find me some time and I'll show you what DRG/WHM is capable of that or you can just go watch the video on alla with Seyonne and her wyvern Hien killing the Sea horror

[Crispleaf]

While leveling Red Mage in Kuftal Tunnel not so long ago, we saw a dragoon/white mage soloing the crabs we were fighting.

I'm not completely sure I saw this right, but it looked like every time he cast an inexpensive white magic spell (like Dia or Poisona), his dragon would cure him for 200 damage.

[Maezen]

*ahem* i'll try to explain the phenomenon

the way this works:

when below 1/3rd health with a mage class subjob, casting ANY spell that keeps you below 1/3rd health will cause your wyvern to cast "Healing Breath X", depending on your level you'll get different level healing breaths. After level 40 it becomes healing breath 3 (the equivilent to Cure 3). This effect becomes even more potent when a Dragoon reaches level 60 and can obtain their AF helm. The helm allows the wyvern to cast it's healing breath when the dragoon is below HALF health. Hope this helps anyone tinkering with the idea of become a dragoon. Most of them end up using Dia or Poison to get the wyvern to cast the heal.

On another side note...try not to heal soloing DRG/mage jobs. If they know what they're doing they'll ask for help if they need it

for more dragoon reading see here