MithraPride

My last post made me want to post this new topic.

I keep noticing, recently more than ever, that my abilities in doing a job (mostly RDM) fluctuate greatly from party to party. In some parties I'm doing my job to its utmost while in others I can barely get off a dispel when I need it. I had this discussion with some people today and it turned into a debate about the amount of power an RDM has in a party.

I have decided that one reason for this is that my abilities to perform my job are proportional to the expectations I have for the party. This weekend I had a party that consisted of three RNGs, a NIN, a BRD and myself, the RDM: high expectations, constant spell-spamming, 15K in two to three hours. Today was a party with a PLD, THF, DRK, WHM, BLM and me. This party suffered no death, but it was slow and did not last long. I was also missing a few dispels and a little slow of refreshes at times.

My second reason for varying job skills is the quality of people in the party. One thing I absolutely hate is someone trying to tell me how to do my job. When they tell me to do something, that makes me much less inclined to do it since, when I do, it would seem like I did it for them. I have a problem with humoring people, but I know that's my own problem.... Either way, I'm sure we've all heard, "I'm a level <insert your job here>, I know what I'm talking about." I suppose this all sounds childish, but they don't deserve to see you at your best.

It's come to a point that I try to find a replacement for myself or otherwise leave the party if I notice myself faltering. I never yell at anyone for doing their job differently than I would unless it directly interferes with me. This is most likely how I've come to gain so many friends/allies/contacts in the world of Vana'diel.

I suppose my message to you all is to lighten up. It's only a game. My question to you all is: "Is this a common factor throughout Final Fantasy and am I making much sense here?"

Lighten up? Heh... read the book again, Preacher Kitty. You're the one coming down on yourself if you feel you're not doing a good job in a party, or holding grudges against people who try to either give you advice or flat out tell you how you should function in the group. Maybe the blanket statement "Lighten up" was a way for you to mark the start of your own reform, to which I say "here, here!"

I've always played with the fact that it's a game in mind. If someone tells me what I should be doing in a group, I'll let them talk, then I'll usually say something in my own defense and then drop it. Although, I've rarely had anyone complain about my playstyle so far... pretty much only people uncomfortable with me meleeing as a White Mage. But, given that I was usually the party leader, there wasn't squat they could do about it.

Even if you don't hit it off with some people in a group, you can still use them to further yourself. If you leave a group because of certain people, it'll just start a chain reaction where you may run into them or a friend of theirs, complications arise and you're out of a chance for EXP. But, if you stay, as long as they're not personally attacking you, everyone's still getting exp and that's the reason a lot of people group in the first place.

Now, if the party just sucks, feel free to remove yourself. I do, but only if I feel like I could get picked up again quickly or can find something else to do. I usually give it a reasonable amount of time and allowance for mistakes before I decide to bail. When you start feeling like it's not fun anymore, that's a big sign warning you that you should probably do something else.

As far as my ability to function, I believe I perform consistently no matter what the group. It's a little easier for me, as melees are just thumping baddies most of the time, but we do have to manage hate, deal damage, assist groupmates (SATA, etc.) and such. But I pretty much know what I need to do and just do it. RDM is rare in that it has a wide range of usage possibilities. More melee members in the party will lead to less casting and more attack magic and melee from RDM. More magic users in the party will turn RDM into a Refresh dispenser, as well as debuffing, buffing and support. Different parties have different needs, and RDM probably feel that change more than any other job. I suppose the answer is to solidify your playstyle... then you're removing self-doubt and can probably perform more efficiently in any group.

Wow, that was a mouthful!

I actually understand fully where you are coming from. I find my performance in a party varies greatly dependingon the quality of people in that party.

If its just a decent party, You will see me generally just using pineapple juice and there will be some downtime, tho not alot. But you will notice I am definitally not putting my all into it, especially if you have ever grouped with me when I am.

If its a great party, there will be no downtime..period. It doesnt matter to me if I have to sit there and chain drink Yagudo drink to keep the mp topped off, I have no objections to doing so in a good party.

If you're in a party that isn't working right, or that they feel you aren't working right, just tell them that your toes are cold and /disband & /ma Warp. Rdm's after lvl 41 are very much in demand and you don't have to suffer through those parties that just don't work. I mean don't take the elitist "I'm better than you" attitude but tell them that its not working, good bye.

And also, don't take anything that one person said as fact. If you've never had a problem, and one person out of the blue says something, then odds are they're wrong and not you.

Rakshasa wrote:My second reason for varying job skills is the quality of people in the party. One thing I absolutely hate is someone trying to tell me how to do my job. When they tell me to do something, that makes me much less inclined to do it since, when I do, it would seem like I did it for them. I have a problem with humoring people, but I know that's my own problem.... Either way, I'm sure we've all heard, "I'm a level <insert your job here>, I know what I'm talking about." I suppose this all sounds childish, but they don't deserve to see you at your best.

I completely understand this. It's especially bad for mages... you seldom hear someone demand, "Iron arrow! Now!" from a ranger, after all

As a red mage, the most upsetting thing for me to see is not only a demand for Refresh, but a macroed demand for Refresh... complete with <call> and everything

I think I have a pretty good Refresh routine. I always Refresh myself first because I know as long as I have Refresh, everyone I refreshed after myself still does too. Then I Refresh the Paladin if there is one, then the white mage if there is one, and then any black mages or summoners, and finally I may consider a dark knight if there's enough of me left over.

Of course, when Refresh wears off on me... I might be in the middle of something at the time... I could be preparing for a magic burst, for example. And any delay on me to Re-Refresh myself means the same delay on everyone I have to Refresh afterwards.

People can sure let you know it if you're late though.

In my last party, the Paladin had a
"My MP is low, please {Refresh} me!"
"My MP is low, please {Refresh} me!"
"My MP is low, please {Refresh} me!"
macro he liked to spam.

He would use this even if Refresh was down for a whole 3 seconds (literally), which is utterly unreasonable, in my opinion.

So, in between fights, I explained to him, in no uncertain terms, that I absolutely hated requests for Refresh, especially those in a macro. And I even teased him a little about begging for Refresh when it was down for a mere 3 seconds.

He explained he only did it in case I forgot to. (In case I forgot to... the only reason I'm invited at all is to Refresh... *sigh*) So I replied maybe I should create a macro to remind him to Provoke and cast Flash, just in case he forgot, of course

And after that he stopped.

I think I did a pretty good job proving I could keep everyone Refreshed on a reasonable basis and that they didn't need to beg for it. And besides, considering how hard it can be to put together a good party, most people see the greater good in keeping everyone happy and getting the xp rolling in.

I think it's good to have some variation in your playing styles to adapt to a party setting. BTW: If I'm not using pies... I hate the pt and would rather not waste my MP.

Heheh! Same here: if I don't use Mithkabobs, it means I am very uncertain of the party (either it's functionality or about how long people will stay) and I don't want to waste Mithkabobs. They are very expensive after all...

Or then I'm just out of Mithkabobs and/or money.

Crispleaf wrote:I completely understand this. It's especially bad for mages... you seldom hear someone demand, "Iron arrow! Now!" from a ranger, after all

...

Of course, when Refresh wears off on me... I might be in the middle of something at the time... I could be preparing for a magic burst, for example. And any delay on me to Re-Refresh myself means the same delay on everyone I have to Refresh afterwards.

People can sure let you know it if you're late though.

...

I think I did a pretty good job proving I could keep everyone Refreshed on a reasonable basis and that they didn't need to beg for it. And besides, considering how hard it can be to put together a good party, most people see the greater good in keeping everyone happy and getting the xp rolling in.

Yup, I think that's the dilemma in a nutshell. I have noticed in my time the a melee job is much easier to perform consistently than a mage job. With my mage job, especially at a high level, my hands are flying all over the keyboard. From party to party a RNG still just fires arrows and pulls mobs. A RDM can enter parties that waste 160-200 MP every 40 seconds on refreshes alone. At other times, you're the only one that needs refresh (although in that case, there's probably someone your should be hasting for 40 MP too). So I guess the trouble is that RDM switches jobs often.

In my defense, I do not hold grudges against people and I do also say something in my defense and most likely do whatever they are telling me to because it is what I should be doing. It just makes it more difficult. Leave groups is often what I do to save face as a quality RDM. I have a reputation to maintain. ^^ Plus, I'd rather wait in Jeuno for a good/better party than earn slow experience with a bad one. I always find something to occupy my time.

My philosophy with this game is that if you ever find yourself saying you are bored, remember that it's a game! There's something wrong with you if you're bored while playing a game, that's what games are for. Go find something else to do. I never just wait for that fated party invite.

It seems most of us are in agreement that party style effects certain things we do.

I have a simple solution for players that tell me how to play my job..

I indoctrinate them into the sub 50 club...

Meaning the heal lands when they have less then 50 hps and are in full blown panic.

Rakshasa wrote:In my defense, I do not hold grudges against people and I do also say something in my defense and most likely do whatever they are telling me to because it is what I should be doing. It just makes it more difficult. Leave groups is often what I do to save face as a quality RDM. I have a reputation to maintain. ^^ Plus, I'd rather wait in Jeuno for a good/better party than earn slow experience with a bad one. I always find something to occupy my time.

I believe we think alike in a lot of ways.

I'll do the same thing, that is, quit the party if someone irritates me to the breaking point.

Of course I have a story to along with this

I was in Garlaige Citadel, as a younger red mage, teamed up in a party fighting bats with a taru black mage/white mage.

I was a red mage/white mage in this party, and the main healer. It's often the only way I could get a party pre-level 41. The taru black mage/white mage should have had an easy job of tossing air elemental spells of varying power on the bats and maybe backup heal if I ran out of power for some reason.

Well, we were going along when I noticed the black mage casting Dia. Of course I would notice because enfeebling is normally my department, since red mages are really good at it by nature. But, I also try to be understanding in working with other mages who may want some kind of spell to skill up on, so I was willing to let the black mage cast Dia for every battle. No problem.

But, on the same bat, in the same battle, moments after he already cast Dia, he cast Dia again. And again. And again... until it's quite clear this was the only spell he ever cast.

Ok... maybe he thought since bats were weak to light, that he should've been doing this... I've seen stranger newbies....

So I politely asked him, in the party chat, what he thought he was doing by casting Dia over and over when he should've been using elemental attack spells, preferably air-based ones? Then he said he was trying to skill up his enfeebling magic.

So, I pointed out that while that's understandable, that this was an experience points party, not a skill-up party and that he was brought to the group to nuke the bats. Most black mages like nuking things after all, it was just assumed he would too. I let him know he could cast one Dia spell and I wouldn't cast it myself, but that he should stick to elemental spells otherwise.

So he said he would stop. And the next fight he cast one Dia spell and air spells afterwards. Everything was good.

But then the next fight, he cast nothing but Dia spells, again! Was he hoping I wouldn't notice? So, again I confronted him. But he didn't answer me this time.

Then the fight after that it was the same thing: nothing but Dia.

We were still winning the fights, but he was clearly mooching off our xp, and that just drove me crazy. But I was the only one who seemed upset about it at that time.

So I announced to the party that I was going quit. I explained it was my fault that I had an issue with taru black mage casting nothing but Dia, despite my requests that he stop, and it was just best if I left so they could find a more tolerant replacement.

Well then the taru black mage turned evil. He said something like, "What the <expletive> gives you right to tell me what to do? I can play my character any way I want to!..." and on and on a bit... until he realized that nobody in the party was on his side

Suddenly, he changed his tune, "Uh, guys. I'm sorry, I won't do it anymore..."

And then he was kicked and replaced with a samurai And I stayed in the party for the rest of the evening

Anyway, it's important to be gracious when you have to leave because of someone's behavior. You may need to party with other people in the group in the future, so always take the blame yourself for your intolerance towards the troublemaker. Sometimes the party will side with you and either get the troublemaker to wise up or go away. Sometimes they won't though... but usually a party with someone like that in it doesn't last long anyway, so it's not like you're missing out

Nice story, Crispleaf! If you remember the name of that anklebiter, let us know... I don't want to end up in a party with him either.

I know how it feels to want to skill up when possible, but I also know when to suck it up and do what I have to do. The other night I was in a group in Yuhtunga Jungle and had my Great Sword skill capped and wanted to switch to Great Axe. But, our group had already worked out 2 Skillchains and I didn't want to mess that up, so I kept the GSD. I know I would've skilled up quickly, but that just wasn't possible the way we had worked things out. It sucked that I couldn't, but at the same time, we were constantly fighting Mandys because our 2 skillchains and WAR/NIN tank allowed us to take care of them quickly without overtaxing the mages.

last night i had 500tnl to 22... i was pissed i had no pt to get me that 500exp... but while i was waiting... a char from an LS im not in but have many friends in gave me 4 of some kind of sushi for {Accuracy Bonus}...
i was told not to waste it cuz its 50k a stack...
but then after the server took a dump (DC'd a lotta ppl) i got invited to a pt...
it was short lived but it got me that last 500 so now ima 22DRG
it was good it ended tho... i needed to go to bed
...did that go way off subject?

{Dragoon} is teh Awesomeness. They are never off topic. ~.^

Ephi wrote:last night i had 500tnl to 22... i was pissed i had no pt to get me that 500exp... but while i was waiting... a char from an LS im not in but have many friends in gave me 4 of some kind of sushi for {Accuracy Bonus}...
i was told not to waste it cuz its 50k a stack...
but then after the server took a dump (DC'd a lotta ppl) i got invited to a pt...
it was short lived but it got me that last 500 so now ima 22DRG
it was good it ended tho... i needed to go to bed
...did that go way off subject?

I'll bring it back on topic for ya.

Parties are often most understanding when it is late and you say you are very tired or you have to get up early. This is often a good excuse to leave a party since they don't want you stumbling around casting Enaero when you should be using Convert. (This was just an example of me from a party last night. Doesn't matter. Party was over anyway.) Many times you'll find other people who are in the same boat and then the whole party is willing to disband anyway.

Yukira wrote:Heheh! Same here: if I don't use Mithkabobs, it means I am very uncertain of the party (either it's functionality or about how long people will stay) and I don't want to waste Mithkabobs. They are very expensive after all...

Or then I'm just out of Mithkabobs and/or money.

Mithkabobs arrre no longer the best food anyways. Depending on your level there are much cheaper/better food out there.

Meooooow! Tell me a better & cheaper food immediately....as a fellow kitty I demand it!

What's your main job and level?

Yukira wrote:Meooooow! Tell me a better & cheaper food immediately....as a fellow kitty I demand it!

Look at Rice Dumplings & Dhamel Pie. Those two are the best I have found for a Mithra SAM/RNG 33.

Grrreat food list: http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/food.php

Crispleaf wrote: He explained he only did it in case I forgot to. (In case I forgot to... the only reason I'm invited at all is to Refresh... *sigh*) So I replied maybe I should create a macro to remind him to Provoke and cast Flash, just in case he forgot, of course

And after that he stopped.

LOL you go girl XD
My RDM is a mere lvl 25 so I haven't had the joys of refresh thrust upon me yet ^^;
I'm a NIN mainly, I have a lot to think about usually: was that 1 or 2 shadows killed? did I use Ni or Ichi? Has it been 30secs since voke? etc.
If I let this get to me my performance will probably drop, if I'm with a group of fun people having a laff as we exp then I'll be more relaxed and hopefully perform better too

Wow, Yellow Curry looks great for jungle leveling. Resist Sleep? Is that a definite resist, or just % boost of resisting?

Josiejo wrote:Wow, Yellow Curry looks great for jungle leveling. Resist Sleep? Is that a definite resist, or just % boost of resisting?

Like Barsleep and Barsleepra, it helps, it does not offer full protection against Sleep.