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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:19 am
by Tryxie
In the demo they played live for us - the puppet died after just a few hits!
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:30 pm
by Sugami
Keavy wrote:Refresh II will be nice if they do add it but if they do they'd better have a Mage's Ballad III otherwise the Bard's will bitch and moan.
Screw the BRDs! They're already wanted over us currently, Refresh II will give us the edge in a mage heavy party
Golddess wrote:As anyone who has ever played around with {/recast} can tell you, there is a lot in there that is not accessible to players. Meteor seems to be the one that sticks out in my mind the most...
Doesn't Behemoth or King Behemoth have that? And it like wipes out the whole alliance
Anyone remember the intro sequence? The tarus casting Blizzard V, I've seen those animations and they look pretty awesome
Tsybil wrote:If RDMs are the mistresses and masters of Enhancing and Enfeebling Magic...
Enbeeling yes, Enhancing no
We have A+ Enfeebling and either B+ or B- Enhancing whereas WHM have A+. We do get Dia and Dia II before WHM, not sure about Bio and Poison is after BLM but those are Enfeebles ('cept Bio which is Dark and an E Skill for us).
Tryxie wrote:In the demo they played live for us - the puppet died after just a few hits!
Hehe well looks like the puppet isn't meant to be a tank and take hits like BST pets do
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:08 pm
by Golddess
Sugami wrote:Golddess wrote:As anyone who has ever played around with {/recast} can tell you, there is a lot in there that is not accessible to players. Meteor seems to be the one that sticks out in my mind the most...
Doesn't Behemoth or King Behemoth have that?
Yes it does, still not accessible to players
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:21 pm
by Sugami
Yes but at least you get to see it (before your grizzly demise) whereas all the San spells and other crap aren't used by PCs or NPCs alike
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:13 pm
by Crispleaf
Sugami wrote:Keavy wrote:Refresh II will be nice if they do add it but if they do they'd better have a Mage's Ballad III otherwise the Bard's will bitch and moan.
Screw the BRDs! They're already wanted over us currently, Refresh II will give us the edge in a mage heavy party
Yes, but red mages are the automatic choice for healers over white mages (which, you know, is just wrong). It's all because of Refresh (and Convert is a close second), so Refresh 2 would just be one more nail in the white mage coffin.
And before you say screw white mages...
SE did say they wanted to make white mages the prefered healers again and they also said red mages were too strong. So my inclination is that Refresh 2 will never happen...
Unless!
They change Refresh so that red mages can't use it on themselves. Then Refresh 2 would be fine
(I'm going to get a ton of hate mail for saying that)
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:34 pm
by Kailea
make Refresh I and II opisite of Warp spells
Refresh I will cast on all but self and Refresh II would be self only lol......oh yeah and refresh II should be level 70 ^.^
muhaha
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:14 pm
by Kintrra
Um....no, that wouldn't really be smart at all. My guess is that they'll do something to RDM's actual healing capabilities or WHM's for that matter if they were going to do something about that. And personally, I've /never/ looked for an RDM over a WHM. WHM's are just too handy. And having one around pretty much guarantees that if you for some reason get into a situation that you have no way out of alive (No, of course I've never done that, nope, not me, not once, definitely not <.<;; ) WHMs are the only ones with anything higher than RR1 and Raise 1. ^^;
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:17 pm
by Keavy
Not to mention Curaga III/IV, Cure V, stronger Bar***ga spells, Regen II/III, Protectra IV and Shellra IV.
We remember the people who invite us to a party then kick us when a Red Mage or Bard or Summoner pops up because "They're better" and we'll stand over your corpse and /laugh as we give you an R1.
Hell hath no fury like a White Mage scorned.
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:39 pm
by Alya Mizar (Tsybil)
Keavy wrote:Not to mention Curaga III/IV, Cure V, stronger Bar***ga spells, Regen II/III, Protectra IV and Shellra IV.
Not stronger, but whole party. Our Bar spells strength doesn't mater, they are self only. Against many prey the Bar-ga spells alone are worth having a WHM for.
Keavy wrote:We remember the people who invite us to a party then kick us when a Red Mage or Bard or Summoner pops up because "They're better" ...
This HAPPENS?
Best party setup that you can easily find, IMHO, is RDM/BLM, WHM, BLM, Tank, 2melee.
Best party setup that you can hardly ever find, RDM/BLM, BRD, Tank, 3 melee.
Best party setup I have ever been in, RDM/BLM, RDM/BRD, BRD, THF, NIN, Greatsword PLD. All the others were Japanese.
RDM/BLM is for one reason only, Chainspell Escape.
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:50 pm
by Leane
Sugami wrote:Tsybil wrote:If RDMs are the mistresses and masters of Enhancing and Enfeebling Magic...
Enbeeling yes, Enhancing no
We have A+ Enfeebling and either B+ or B- Enhancing whereas WHM have A+. We do get Dia and Dia II before WHM, not sure about Bio and Poison is after BLM but those are Enfeebles ('cept Bio which is Dark and an E Skill for us).
Wrong, we RDMs have a B+ enhancing skill, where as WHMs have a C+.
the only A+ skill WHMs have is healing.
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:02 am
by Crispleaf
Tsybil wrote:Keavy wrote:Not to mention Curaga III/IV, Cure V, stronger Bar***ga spells, Regen II/III, Protectra IV and Shellra IV.
Not stronger, but whole party. Our Bar spells strength doesn't mater, they are self only. Against many prey the Bar-ga spells alone are worth having a WHM for.
It matters when you go rdm/whm and you get the white mage bar spells. When you get to 75, there's almost nothing a rdm/whm can't do that a white mage can. Except the stuff that Keavy mentioned. Oh and Stona, you don't get that. But you get everything else... plus you get Refresh and Convert...
See the problem?
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:18 am
by JediKitsune
Leane wrote:Sugami wrote:Tsybil wrote:If RDMs are the mistresses and masters of Enhancing and Enfeebling Magic...
Enbeeling yes, Enhancing no
We have A+ Enfeebling and either B+ or B- Enhancing whereas WHM have A+. We do get Dia and Dia II before WHM, not sure about Bio and Poison is after BLM but those are Enfeebles ('cept Bio which is Dark and an E Skill for us).
Wrong, we RDMs have a B+ enhancing skill, where as WHMs have a C+.
the only A+ skill WHMs have is healing.
They also have an A(+) in Divine.
There's something RDM can't do ever though as well, and that's equip all the wonderful WHM JSE that does things like + to Cure potency.
Plus, you know... they also get Erase 32 levels earlier than a RDM/WHM would.
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:51 pm
by Kahvi
only if you had the 500k to get it in the first place at level 32 as a whm...
my rdm is 62 and whm 45 and i still dont have erase.
BCNM hates me too...
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:10 pm
by Sugami
Crispleaf wrote:Yes, but red mages are the automatic choice for healers over white mages (which, you know, is just wrong). It's all because of Refresh (and Convert is a close second), so Refresh 2 would just be one more nail in the white mage coffin.
And before you say screw white mages...
No they're not, I look for a SMN healer for NIN tank and WHM for PLD. I think in generally people look to SMN second to WHM for healing, RDM don't have the MP pool to do it ontop of everything else.
And screw the WHM! Hehe just kidding love you guys
Raise 3 {Yes, please.}
When you get to 75, there's almost nothing a rdm/whm can't do that a white mage can.
Except Regen III, Raise III, Cure V and yes Stona too
I wouldn't want to rely on a single RDM/WHM for all my curing needs. Refresh takes time, someone could die in the time they're Refreshing themselves. Not to mention Refresh and Haste are 40mp which is a lot to a RDM, throwing around Cures constantly will drains their MP and Convert is a 10min timer so I wouldn't rely on it too much.
Leane wrote:Wrong, we RDMs have a B+ enhancing skill, where as WHMs have a C+.
the only A+ skill WHMs have is healing.
Not sure if I believe you, was pretty sure theirs was at least equal to ours.
JediKitsune wrote:There's something RDM can't do ever though as well, and that's equip all the wonderful WHM JSE that does things like + to Cure potency.
Yes but RDM JSE is far more sekshi (for mithra anyway) and gives us Magic Accuracy+ and Enmity- (along with less important stuff), pretty clear to me that's telling us RDM to stick to Enfeebles and let the sissy WHM (and SMN) stick to the healing
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:10 pm
by Crispleaf
Sugami wrote:I wouldn't want to rely on a single RDM/WHM for all my curing needs. Refresh takes time, someone could die in the time they're Refreshing themselves. Not to mention Refresh and Haste are 40mp which is a lot to a RDM, throwing around Cures constantly will drains their MP and Convert is a 10min timer so I wouldn't rely on it too much.
This is just personal experience talking.
As a white mage, I started to notice this problem in the 60s. But it doesn't really hit you until you get within range of the glut of level 75 jobs and you reach level 73.
Once you reach level 73... Every Ninja and Warrior "burn" party wants a red mage because the damage they take is low, there's a low risk of death, and in those conditions, a red mage will never need to stop to rest.
People gear their parties for non-stop xp these days, and white mages simply don't have the ability to keep up with that on their own.
Monk parties in King Ranpere's Tomb will invite white mages for Banish 3 (since it works great at lowering a ghost's defense, and ghosts are usually the culprits that break the xp chain because they take too long to kill). But even then, red mages can also replace white mages in monk parties too just because their ability not to run out of mp is that good.
Where white mages DO play a role at "endgame" are for events with a high risk of death. If people lost 1800 xp for each raise 1 at level 75, they wouldn't stay at level 75 for long. So, it's not like white mages aren't needed ever.
But for merit parties, you're much better off leveling another job if you want to make any progress. Probably bard or red mage
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:39 pm
by ScarlettPheonix
Not sure if I believe you, was pretty sure theirs was at least equal to ours.
Its true.
From FFXIclopedia:
RDM stats
WHM stats
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:13 pm
by Sugami
Well slap my ass and call me Judy, D in Club too I thought it was the same as Sword and Dagger, definately not leveling that now
RDM and WHM get all the Protect and Shell spells at the same time, I dunno when the AoE versions are available for WHM... no wonder I took 0 damage against 2 prime avatar 2hrs
<3 Stoneskin + barspell
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:05 pm
by Cosma
White Mage get the -ra spells at the same level as their non-ra (if there is one) counterpart. Although they don't appear to get a single target bar- line they do get -ra versions of them useable at the same level as a red mage.
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:52 pm
by Golddess
Crispleaf wrote:People gear their parties for non-stop xp these days, and white mages simply don't have the ability to keep up with that on their own.
Heh, yeah, I sorta have this thing against giving out anything better than an R1 outside my own party unless I know the person or they are a White Mage for just that sort of reason. >.>;
And at the same time, I'll also insist on an R1 if I am on Bard and we deliberately go without a White Mage. If we simply couldn't find a White Mage I won't reject something better but I won't ask for it either.
Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:33 am
by Kahvi
I was in a great party last night that didnt have a {Black Mage} Whm/blm, 2x rdm/whm, rng/nin, nin/war, thf/something
it was great! i wish i could be in more parties like that.
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