Question for all Dragoons

[Chaoskitten21]

i only use war as a sub for melee jobs.nothing else.its hte only job i got that can be used as a sub,well war and drk but drk sucks as subjob

[Eviticus]

That's fairly irresponsible. >.> I thought 60+ Thf became a good sub for Drk?

[Shirai]

That's fairly irresponsible. >.> I thought 60+ Thf became a good sub for Drk?

People ask a lot of melee to sub thf 60+
Especially partying with ninja they need someone to set hate. (SATA)
Plus that a lot of people go in awe about the dmg a melee/thf can do in a weapon skill with SA added. (TA only adds damage with thf main but still sets hate on the person in front of you when subbed. Hopefully the tank.)
It just saddens me people tend to forget a lot about the imprtance of DoT as well.

As DRK/WAR I hope you get to party with paladins a lot or party with a thief or /thf all the time because ninjas will not be able to keep hate from you no matter how good they are.
Because later on you will be closing SC's a lot.

[Sylphine]

i only use war as a sub for melee jobs.nothing else.its hte only job i got that can be used as a sub,well war and drk but drk sucks as subjob

The only reason I see /DRK is becuase of "Stun"...

[Kailea]

i only use war as a sub for melee jobs.nothing else.its hte only job i got that can be used as a sub,well war and drk but drk sucks as subjob

The only reason I see /DRK is becuase of "Stun"...

acualy if you sub DRK, you give up provoke of course.....but you will hit harder, /DRK gives you more ATT and STR then /WAR or SAM would, I sub /DRK sometimes for that alone, and only use the spells to cure myself in an extreme emergency, because /DRK gives you both WS breath and healling breath if you cast a spell

[Sugami]

Just to be an ass I could put in the comment that a good tank shouldn't need TA'd anyway. It's not that hard to pull hate back even after a DRG/WAR > DRK/WAR SC. Takes me like one Cure IV maybe, lol. ^^

I do have to agree though that for the most part, DRGs are better off using WAR in pt setups. Unless it's a really odd party or you're stuck with a MNK or WAR/NIN opening the chain and having a NIN tank, the chances of you needing to close the SC on the tank are slim to nil.

Just my view from the PLD side of things. ^^;

Hehe well duh! A WS alone can't pull hate off a (decent) PLD but the bigass WS+SC certainly can and remember only takes a few seconds for a mob to drop a poor DRK

Hence main reason why DRKs and SAMs sub THF is to "survive" the SC, whether the tank does or does not need the hate the DD definately does not want it whereas a DRG can Jump away the hate but it's probably better to put it onto the tank anyways.

Also DRK/WAR would output a WS around 600-800, if that's Light it can go unresisted so that's a full 1200-1600 points of hate they get. A DRK/THF that bones up TA gets 800-1100 WS with up to the same SC, which can be over 2000 points of hate. Definately enough to pull hate from any PLD and possibly enough to keep it until they get killed

acualy if you sub DRK, you give up provoke of course.....but you will hit harder, /DRK gives you more ATT and STR then /WAR or SAM would, I sub /DRK sometimes for that alone, and only use the spells to cure myself in an extreme emergency, because /DRK gives you both WS breath and healling breath if you cast a spell

I think you're wrong and I'll tell you why
WAR has Double Attack (50+ from sub) where DRK does not. Giving up an extra free attack every now and then adds up to a lot more then what you might get from the small STR boost. Not to mention Berserk (30+ from sub) and Warcry (70+ from sub).

[Kailea]

Just to be an ass I could put in the comment that a good tank shouldn't need TA'd anyway. It's not that hard to pull hate back even after a DRG/WAR > DRK/WAR SC. Takes me like one Cure IV maybe, lol. ^^

I do have to agree though that for the most part, DRGs are better off using WAR in pt setups. Unless it's a really odd party or you're stuck with a MNK or WAR/NIN opening the chain and having a NIN tank, the chances of you needing to close the SC on the tank are slim to nil.

Just my view from the PLD side of things. ^^;

Hehe well duh! A WS alone can't pull hate off a (decent) PLD but the bigass WS+SC certainly can and remember only takes a few seconds for a mob to drop a poor DRK

Hence main reason why DRKs and SAMs sub THF is to "survive" the SC, whether the tank does or does not need the hate the DD definately does not want it whereas a DRG can Jump away the hate but it's probably better to put it onto the tank anyways.

Also DRK/WAR would output a WS around 600-800, if that's Light it can go unresisted so that's a full 1200-1600 points of hate they get. A DRK/THF that bones up TA gets 800-1100 WS with up to the same SC, which can be over 2000 points of hate. Definately enough to pull hate from any PLD and possibly enough to keep it until they get killed

acualy if you sub DRK, you give up provoke of course.....but you will hit harder, /DRK gives you more ATT and STR then /WAR or SAM would, I sub /DRK sometimes for that alone, and only use the spells to cure myself in an extreme emergency, because /DRK gives you both WS breath and healling breath if you cast a spell

I think you're wrong and I'll tell you why
WAR has Double Attack (50+ from sub) where DRK does not. Giving up an extra free attack every now and then adds up to a lot more then what you might get from the small STR boost. Not to mention Berserk (30+ from sub) and Warcry (70+ from sub).

I never look at job abilities when I choose a sub, I choose what will be right for that particuler party, if there are already 2-3 vokers in a PT, they dont need a 4th one, so I sub DRK, and if a small bit of healing is neeeded I will sub RDM or WHM, and i I will need TP I sub SAM (leveling it rigth now)

[Sugami]

O-kay...

It really comes down to two things.
1) How can I deal the most damage.
2) Am I needed to TA the tank?

First case /WAR brings the most damage, and we all know the solution to the second.

You're a DD class, in an exp party you should aim to bring the most damage possible. Simple as that.

I'm sorry if you think I'm anal about subs but I have tried and tested them all and a party member should know their place in a party; a DDs place is to deal damage.

[Kailea]

O-kay...

It really comes down to two things.
1) How can I deal the most damage.
2) Am I needed to TA the tank?

First case /WAR brings the most damage, and we all know the solution to the second.

You're a DD class, in an exp party you should aim to bring the most damage possible. Simple as that.

I'm sorry if you think I'm anal about subs but I have tried and tested them all and a party member should know their place in a party; a DDs place is to deal damage.

I have tested them too over and over, but I dont relly on abilities or traits that only kick in for a short time or only now and then

You play well your way, and I mine, I see what you are talking about, but I choose to do it my way. I have been doing fine since 2003 and I will continue to do well :p

[Sugami]

Eh fair enough but I still think you'd do better off my way, if you got your hands on one of those programs that clocks your damage you'll see, although I'm sure they're "illegal" now

[Kintrra]

Hehe well duh! A WS alone can't pull hate off a (decent) PLD but the bigass WS+SC certainly can and remember only takes a few seconds for a mob to drop a poor DRK

Heh, I've had MNKs who can't pull hate off me at the end of a Light SC that's unresisted. As long as you're not using an overpowering DD (Like a DRK75/WAR37 using Spinning Slash to finish off a Light chain with a PLD72/WAR36 tanking) then there shouldn't be any issues. Unless of course you've got those idiots who loves to SC right off the start of the fight. And a good PLD won't LET the DRK drop. A good PLD would have already typed in /ma "Cure IV" <name> and hit the enter button the moment the DRK got slapped. ^^ So with a good tank, the argument of why they need a way to avoid hate is perfectly null. ^^;;

[Sugami]

Heh, I've had MNKs who can't pull hate off me at the end of a Light SC that's unresisted. As long as you're not using an overpowering DD (Like a DRK75/WAR37 using Spinning Slash to finish off a Light chain with a PLD72/WAR36 tanking) then there shouldn't be any issues. Unless of course you've got those idiots who loves to SC right off the start of the fight. And a good PLD won't LET the DRK drop. A good PLD would have already typed in /ma "Cure IV" <name> and hit the enter button the moment the DRK got slapped. ^^ So with a good tank, the argument of why they need a way to avoid hate is perfectly null. ^^;;

Hehe that's some pretty fast typing
I've found that MNKs' WSs are quite erratic without the use of SA(TA). Sure they can be anywhere up to say 1000 on bones, also seen them as low as 100 and the occasional miss of course
It's DRK/THF and SAM/THF that are the heavy hitters with their 800-1100 WSs.

Only problem I've had with a PLD tank and DRK/THF SC partner is when we don't SC at the start I can't pull hate from PLD so I get the DRK to SATA me and I Jump away the hate. Then the BLM lands a massive MB and gets hate

[Mystiana]

If you can do enough accuracy to use an attack food like courel sub or mithkabobs, you're good to go, and will definately put out more damage. That's my strategy. Works pretty well, and very well when fighting VT instead of IT (speed killing).

As for /thf, when you SA Wheeling Thrust, you can almost break 1000 dmg. That's some serious fun.

[Sugami]

As for /thf, when you SA Wheeling Thrust, you can almost break 1000 dmg. That's some serious fun.

I demand proof!

[Kintrra]

Actually Sug, I can back that claim up. I've had Mithra DRG do that in my own pts. ^^;;

[Sugami]

SATA Wheeling Thrust close to 1000? Can't fluke that 'cause no double attack and SATA garantees a critical so every single time should be roughly the same, this is why I'm sceptical(sp?). With 2hr I've done it on not an EXP mob for 750ish I think, anyway I didn't think "Attack" came into the equation for WSs, STR is the key to most. I'll have to look it up.