WoW vs FFXI

[Stockyboy]

FFXI's doesn't have its own history

Yes, it does. Cutscenes are your friends, note the rank missions, CoP/Zilart, ToAU and general storyline/history to do with the shadow lord.

FFXI doesn't have history? Somebody wasn't paying attention.

EDIT: I'm thickX2.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

FFXI's doesn't have its own history

Yes, it does. Cutscenes are your friends, note the rank missions, CoP/Zilart, ToAU and general storyline/history to do with the shadow lord.

FFXI doesn't have history? Somebody wasn't paying attention.

Ambrey meant backstory. There is a massive amount of published history of... what's the name of WoW's world again? Each FF has its own unique story.

One comparison I have heard is that due to the massive backstory to WoW a player feels like a spectator. In FFXI a player feels like they make a difference in how the story plays out.

[ScarlettPheonix]

FFXI's doesn't have its own history

Yes, it does. Cutscenes are your friends, note the rank missions, CoP/Zilart, ToAU and general storyline/history to do with the shadow lord.

FFXI doesn't have history? Somebody wasn't paying attention.

Ambrey meant backstory. There is a massive amount of published history of... what's the name of WoW's world again? Each FF has its own unique story.

One comparison I have heard is that due to the massive backstory to WoW a player feels like a spectator. In FFXI a player feels like they make a difference in how the story plays out.

Each FF does have its own story but with Vana'diel, SE did go and produce an amazing amount of back history detailing the rise of civilization on Vana'diel.

Like Stockyboy said- the mission storylines (Nationx3, RoZ, CoP and now ToAU) tells much of the world's history but there are also quests that delve into the back history and fill in details that the missions alone don't cover. The Vana'diel Tribune has literally tons of back history as well~ ancient legends, forgotten heroes, notable personages, the stories behind the prime avatars, etc. All of this is woven into Vana'diel so that (at times) it can seem like you're a part of that world.

Obscure historical references will occasionally pop up again in strange places too- no one was expecting to see the name Olduum to appear in the new expansion nearly four years after it was mentioned once in a Vana'diel Tribune article.

FFXI has tons of backstory that is there to be discovered, as long as you don't skip over the cutscenes.

Also- about Warcraft's previously published backstory, what is there in the actual WoW gameplay to encourage people to seek out and read/experience the story?

My brother plays WoW, has never played the earlier Warcraft games or really gone out of his way to discover what other backstory there is and what story there is in the game doesn't intrigue him enough to learn more. Yet, when he visits and see's me playing he's always asking questions about FFXI's storyline or what's up with a certain couplet speaking pigtailed former Minister.

[Pheonixhawk]

Indeed, the story to FFXI has kept me entertained, and I felt as if I were the hero of Windurst. Or how I could say "Me and my friends destroyed the shadowlord, or I was the one who was knocked unconcious after the fight as the two brothers revealed themselves to be zilart. It was I who investigated the Promy Spire and got sucked inside to find a terrible secret." True, i know everyone goes through the Missions, but It just doesn't feel that way you know? IMO FFXI would be perfect if there were not RMT or if ppl would quit badgering other jobs. When I hear crap like 'Drg's don't get party invites' im like that a friggin lie. I almost always invite drg's when I see them. Its the drg's that turn down invites saying "No thanks, im soloing" Or how Asshats, walk around and call Rdm's walking batteries. Its complete BS. It's sad when a warrior is going "Ha ha ha 900 dmg. Hows that rdm?" and I go, "Did I say I was a DD? Why don't we fight one on one and ill shut you up." and of course the response is "No way. ill lose. lol" True they admitted rdm isnt weak, but they still tick me off. Why can't we all just play our favorite jobs and get along?

[Sugami]

FFXI has a lot of content, be it quests (hundreds per country,) missions, or just changing jobs on your character and leveling again.

Quests serve little point in FFXI and are just tedious annoyances to increase your fame. About 5-10% actually have a reward that's decent. Missions are just annoying, tedious and in some cases (CoP) overly hard, no one wants to do them once they've already done them leaving new players up a certain creek without a piece of lumber.

This is why I prefer Guild Wars as each quest or mission will net you exp along with a small reward, questing and missions are the best way to level and you will be the correct level for the next mission if you take time to do the enjoyable and rewarding quests.

Only thing I find enjoyable about FFXI is leveling and talking to all my friends. Leveling for the point of leveling, seems somewhat pointless.

[ScarlettPheonix]

I swear, I must be the only one who actually enjoys questing. I don't quest for rewards- I quest to explore places I may not have been too and to see more of Vana'diel's history. While not vital to the mission storylines maybe, there are many quests that flesh out and add details to the main storyline.

AF, the SOB quest line, several in Bastok dealing with Moblins, the Pal. Mines and Gusgen Incidents, the Tea with a Tonberry series that goes into the war between Sandy and Basty centuries ago, nearly every quest in Tavanazia, the mannequin quest series, ToAUs quests (especially the Olduum ring one)...all of them add flavor and detail to the official history and if you don't take the time to do them you're missing a good part of Vana'diel's history.

[Vatrina]

I love the quests for the same reason, Scarlett. I put leveling last on my list of content cuz it has got to be the most boring thing in the game. Yes CoP is hard, yes I've given up on ever attaining sea (getting help for me is like asking people to chop off their own heads) but it's still there for people to experience. I've gone through 2 countries and gotten rank 10 just to experience the content and story, and I'm 70% of the way through my 3rd one.

Doing quests for the rewards is pointless. Doing them for the content and stories and to learn a little more about the nation you're in is the idea. The only quests that have a decent award are the escort or eco-warrior quests, and yes, those have little story associated with them.

Quests and missions, the story content of FFXI, are there to pull you into the game, so you're actually "adventuring" instead of going out and leveling all the time. Yeah, some of them are hard, but FFXI is a hard game. If you want quests that buff up your character instead of enriching your experiences in the game, then feel free to play WoW, or Guild Wars. Whatever makes you happy.

[Kistala]

FFXI has a lot of content, be it quests (hundreds per country,) missions, or just changing jobs on your character and leveling again.

Quests serve little point in FFXI and are just tedious annoyances to increase your fame. About 5-10% actually have a reward that's decent. Missions are just annoying, tedious and in some cases (CoP) overly hard, no one wants to do them once they've already done them leaving new players up a certain creek without a piece of lumber.

This is why I prefer Guild Wars as each quest or mission will net you exp along with a small reward, questing and missions are the best way to level and you will be the correct level for the next mission if you take time to do the enjoyable and rewarding quests.

Only thing I find enjoyable about FFXI is leveling and talking to all my friends. Leveling for the point of leveling, seems somewhat pointless.

Sounds like someone has no appreciation for the stories of Vana'diel.

I swear, I must be the only one who actually enjoys questing. I don't quest for rewards- I quest to explore places I may not have been too and to see more of Vana'diel's history. While not vital to the mission storylines maybe, there are many quests that flesh out and add details to the main storyline.

AF, the SOB quest line, several in Bastok dealing with Moblins, the Pal. Mines and Gusgen Incidents, the Tea with a Tonberry series that goes into the war between Sandy and Basty centuries ago, nearly every quest in Tavanazia, the mannequin quest series, ToAUs quests (especially the Olduum ring one)...all of them add flavor and detail to the official history and if you don't take the time to do them you're missing a good part of Vana'diel's history.

Seconded!

[Sugami]

Exploring would be fun if there wasn't a huge risk of death and 2.1K exp penalty

I've led people to Dvucca Isle Staging Point twice and each time was almost a heart attack for me, we also died due to people making the true sight NMs run around

Those quests you described are about 5% (if that) of all the quests in game. When I first started playing the game I'd try to do all the little quests in Windy 'cause I thought that's how you advanced after a week I realised it was all pointless.

The exp grind adds replayability but the problem is it's all for nothing in the end. I prefer to level as I play through the story, which is why Guild Wars appeals to me so much. The only replayability however is starting a new character of a different job but the world is pretty vast and there is quite a lot of places to explore outside of the story paths.

[ScarlettPheonix]

I have over 200 quests completed in total and less then 5% of those were of the boring and repetitive sort and I know I still have more quests to do. So I think its a bit more then 5% but I won't argue with you about it.

Everything has upsides and down, and its entirely possible to pick your quests so you're not working your way through the very boring and repetitive quests. Hell, I often still go running around the starter towns when bored to see if I can unlock new quests. Many quests in CoP become accessable only after reaching a certain point in the missions too, which is nice. I'm always discovering new quests to do.

Maybe its just me, the fact that I'm a RDM or maybe CoP has just numbed me to it, but losing EXP doesn't really bother me. If I lose too much I simply go catch a few Beseigeds, solo some or get a party. If I really want to do something I generally find a way to do it even if it means a RRing a few times.



Getting to Dvucca just plain sucks especially if you're going through Arrapaggo Reef to get it. A friend recently showed me a quicker and safer way that I wish I'd known about earlier (like when I could've used it ><).

Head out the western Nashmau entrance and go to the Alzadaal Undersea Ruins (E-11), you'll need a Silver Imperial Pc to get in. Its also the same ruin for Blu AF, but anyway...use it and you'll end up at I-10 in C. Mire, just a short walk south of the Dvucca staging point. There are a few Imps you need to dodge and you'll need both invis and sneak (Lamia and undead wander around) but its pretty safe and much much easier then dodging Dr. Zoidburg in A. Reef....

You need to be able to access the A. Ruins, I think its ToAU mission 9 for access.

[Pheonixhawk]

what fun is a quest is theres no death and adventure? Or would you rather have a quest like in WoW where they "quest you" to talk to someone 3 feet away from you? Honestly.

Hell I loved the Corsair quest for example. Running through Caerdeva Mire, praying the imps don't see me. Then running into Lamia and nearly dying. It was awesome. And when I got done, and had Corsair unlocked I gave a sigh of relieve and let out a cry of joy. Much better than have to go halfway across the world to kill a single monster for a easy drop and then return to get 40s and a 3,0000000000000 exp points.

(And yes im over doing it with the WoW quests exp points, but unless it's an elite quest (Which arent that had at all either), ive not come across a single difficult one yet)

[Wanta]

FFXI's doesn't have its own history

http://www.shadow-ffxi.com/HistoryofVanadiel/
Say again?

One thing I do know is that the story in WoW (if you could even call it that) is a total joke. Sure it may have a quite big lore, but the game itself does not utilize anything of it. There is no plot or story progression at all.

[Okuza]

The biggest problem with FFXI is that you need to be in command of a small (or large depending on your goals) army to get said content completed.

I'd have to strongly disagree with this one. Most of FFXI can be done with 18 or less -- all of sky can be done with 6-12, for instance. All of Dynamis can be done with a very good 18, though if you're new, 36+ helps a lot. Some of the very hard fights need 36, but that's about as bad as it gets.

I've seen "giant" in EQ. FFXI doesn't come close to what you need for EQ endgame. One of the EQ end game fights requires 64 people, for instance. You have to slay 12 hard NMs at the same time (they all must die within 60s of each other). That pops an even harder HNM that all 64 slay.

General requirements for a shell is about count+50% for a shell made of dedicated players or shell+150% for a shell made of casuals. FFXI has a lot of highly successful endgame shells with only ~50 people.

FFXI's endgame problems are not head-count. They're monopolization and balance. The fact that one tiny group can totally monopolize all end-game content and prevent anyone else from playing there is a major problem; eg. RMT in sky. Balance is a much smaller problem, but still an issue. XP is balanced just fine. Endgame, the need for melee vanishes entirely. Melee TP:Damage ratio is prohibitively high for HNM. Adding melee to an HNM doesn't make the fight easier, it makes it harder due to more HNM specials from all the TP fed to it by the melee. Melee also have to stand next to the HNM -- inside all AE's.

So, not only do melee feed gobs of TP to the HNM, but they require extra healing to do so. Ugh. OK, solution = throw out the melee. BTW, this problem is not new to FFXI. All the MMORPGS I've played have it. When it comes to end-game, all the devs over the entire world seem to think it's OK to throw out all the melee and put a premium on ranged damage. If they don't throw out the melee, they throw out the mages or the -- gah. Someone always gets the axe.

Stuff I've actually seen as a general end-game design philosphy:

EQ: "let's make it harder by making it immune to magic!" (bye mages!)
EQ: "ok, throwing out mages was bad, let's give it millions of hp!" (turn on attack, afk for 2H)
EQ: "hmm, 2H fights were bad, let's have bosses use huge AE!" (bye melee)
EQ: ...
EQ: time for a new game with all new mistakes -- EQ2!

FFXI: "let's make it fun by adding competitive spawn claiming!" (hello RMT!)
FFXI: (still hasn't clued in why it's not fun to stand and voke-race v. RMT claimbots)
FFXI: "let's make HMM harder by giving them high def/vit & killer TP attacks" (bye melee!)
FFXI: (still hasn't figured out why this is bad for balance)

I suppose you could say that at least SOE/EQ recognized the issues and tried to address them. SE/FFXI isn't even trying.

Graphics don't make or break a game.

They contribute. One of the reasons I left WoW was because of the graphics. I tolerated them while it was fun, but when I got tired of it, they were another bonus for leaving. FFXI's graphics are a reason to stay. Best MMORPG graphics ever. From what I've seen of Vanguard, it looks like FFXI's beat that one, too. At least Vanguard's aren't gaudy, just not as artistic as FFXI's.

One thing I do know is that the story in WoW (if you could even call it that) is a total joke. Sure it may have a quite big lore, but the game itself does not utilize anything of it. There is no plot or story progression at all.

I'd have to agree 100% with that. When I was playing WoW, the fanbois would go on and on about story and plot and such. I kept saying "Huh? Where!?" The answer, it seems, is that all the "story" comes from various game-novels published by blizzard. LOL. If it's not in game, it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. FFXI's story is *all* in the game with nice dialogue, CS's, and NPCs that have distinctive personalities. WoW's is just a bunch of menu-driven fetch'n'carry quests.

[Tianshii]

I swear, I must be the only one who actually enjoys questing. I don't quest for rewards- I quest to explore places I may not have been too and to see more of Vana'diel's history. While not vital to the mission storylines maybe, there are many quests that flesh out and add details to the main storyline.

AF, the SOB quest line, several in Bastok dealing with Moblins, the Pal. Mines and Gusgen Incidents, the Tea with a Tonberry series that goes into the war between Sandy and Basty centuries ago, nearly every quest in Tavanazia, the mannequin quest series, ToAUs quests (especially the Olduum ring one)...all of them add flavor and detail to the official history and if you don't take the time to do them you're missing a good part of Vana'diel's history.

Well said!

As a sumoner, I had to have crazy high fame to GET my avatars. Sure, it was a giant PAIN in the tail while I was trying to accomplish them... but at the time friends helped me out.
Now I help out fellow summoners in need.
Part of the fun of this game is helping others have less of a hardship.
(I'm not talking about those goobers who run around {/shout}-ing give me gill, PL me... and so forth... )

A big part of the fun of exploring new areas is that risk of death. Sure it sucks, but it's not all that difficult to get the exp back... And when you actually make it to where you are going with a fun group of people, it's easy for me to shrug off any mishaps along the way.
Shoot, I'll even try again (another day lol) if we fail.
I get annoyed when I die.. I might pitch a little hissy fit, but then I remember.. hey I can solo that back.
(tho.. I tend to stay miffed longer if the death was due to someone being totally inconsiderate of the situation and not paying attention because they think they are uber-leet or some such nonsence )
I have a friend who.. well he's KNOWN for dying for others!!
Which brings me to...

Missions are just annoying, tedious and in some cases (CoP) overly hard, no one wants to do them once they've already done them leaving new players up a certain creek without a piece of lumber.

I disagree, totally. CoP was a pain, but I loved it! So much so I am now going back to help just about anyone advance through it.
In fact, this past sunday I died something like 8x helping a group defeat those horrid mammets from mission 2.5
I had SO MUCH FUN!!!!
Why? Because they were so excited to have won. Becaue we worked well together as a team. And because it did look bad for a little while... but we pulled it together and beat the snot outta those baddies!!!
I'm excited to re-re-redo 3.5 this sunday!
I'm even looking for people who need promy's! The lvl. cap makes it fun... Sure you can throw a bunch of lvl 75's @ something and defeat it... But try 30..40..50. That requires some major teamwork and planning. That's what I like to be a part of fun fun {fun}!

Saturday night I helped someone defeat the windy dragon for a san d'oria rank up.
Monday did some assaults with a semi-static. We didn't win every one, but I still had fun-- because the people I was with were nice people.

If your only goal is to have all the bright shiny new leetest gear fast... I guess play WoW instead. {Take care!}

(..and if you're on my serverrr... look me up for help with CoP!! *purrr*...)

[Eviticus]

Yeah, Tianshii, you have the right attitude. I only wish you were on my server(recently beat the 30 cap promies, now totally lost). >.> I love helping people with lots of stuff, as long as they're not jerks about it. Certan missions and quests are actually a blast to go over and do again, if nothing else for the oppertunity to re-live a certain section of story or plot.

[Stockyboy]

I've summed up the last 43 posts in this small statement.

lolWoW

[Eviticus]

I've summed up the last 43 posts in this small statement.

lolWoW

qft

[xaresity]

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[xaresity]

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