SE forms RMT taskforce

[Shirai]

Well, in some cases I do agree, however Dynamis just isn't profitable for RMT.
They'll have to pay for the accounts and for the people playing them in the sweatshops.
One Dynamis run might just make them enough to fund it.

After talking to some of the RMT that speak english the situation in most RMT groups is as follows.
Even though I dispise them I have spoken to quite a few.

There is a boss character that collects all drops and gil, that is also the character handing out the gil to the buyers.
Players get payed for the ammount of gil they bring in or exp made on leveling characters.
(Example: A player gets 1 dollar for every 2 mil gil made or 20k exp per character.)
That sounds very underpayed to our standards but for a simple chinese one or two dollar can fund their entire family's dinner.

To make at least the mil back in Dynamis for the hourglass you'd need at least 10/12 blms, a decent puller (maybe 2).
Next to that meds, and lots of reraise because no matter how good your sleeps are people are going to die.
Then they need to get in as much currencies as possible and hope a 100 might drop before time allowed runs out to get profit out of it.
(I've seen Dynamis' cleaned out with only 1 AF dropping.)
There is more profit in selling Sky pops which have a 100% droprate, Abjurations, Ground NM like Simurgh, King Arthro, Roc, Behemoth, Serket which can have very decent droprates.

If there was profit for RMT in Dynamis they would have taken that route a long time ago.

[Tivia]

{Um...} no PH, actually you /can't/ camp as well as an RMT.... bothack, warphack, claimhack, you name it, they'll do it. Ordinary players aren't capable of matching all that without risking their own accounts in the process.

Not so. I had a friend who was a NM hunter. He could make a good living off them. It was his delight to outclaim RMTs. Mithra RNG IRL a 15 YO American Vietnamese.

But then again on Garuda our longest lasting RMTs did not use obvious hacks. I watched one group fishing for Angel Skins. They were pulling enough other monsters that I know they were not even using a fishbot. At least not the ones as sophisticated as the ones that Tivia has described.

Most of the advanced script writers moved on to other games, and quit putting out updates to the really big bots, and as expected regular patches changed enough variables that they are now broken. There are a few active one's left but they are fully independant writers and doing everything on their own. Of course some simply got bored writing scripts, and simply moved on.

Me as a good example, I have not written a single script in nearly a year. My worst offence was setting up an autohotkey bind to handle my buff hotkeys in D&D, the only thing that does is the same thing as a FFXI ingame macro, multiple hotkeys pressed in sequence, so 1 button push handles all buffs instead of 4. Regretfully D&D required a third party program because the in game macro system while there only works half the time.

[Sakino]

The only results I've seen from the RMT pogrom is an economic depression that would make Herbet Hoover proud. Prices may be low, but it's impossible to make gil anymore. Not sure about the rest of y'all, but I made a ton of gil during the RMT inflation days. It's actually *worse* now. Not only can't make gil, but now can't do sky, too.

Well, the good thing is that certain item will drop in price as well which makes things easier for newer players to obtain equipment. I remember the days when popping treasure chests and killing tons of beastmen for gil could net a nice profit. Also quest rewards were considered above average in terms of gil.

I have a feeling that people will adapt to the lower prices. Esp. in the way of consumables. MP Phoenix used to make tons of gil doing garrisons but as it stands now either the demand for such items have dropped due to over saturation in the economy or people are being a bit tighter with their gil purse and waiting to see what happens with the Christmas rush.

Also the slew of lvl 75s in FFXI represents a huge percentage of FFXI's population. People seem to be focusing on the new expansion areas and the market seems to cater to those lvl 75s (higher level items seem to be in more demand then the lower level ones).

I guess this is good news for newer players that are lower level. Items are cheaper for them now. But for the higher lvl people, prices increase due mostly do to the billions of gil they have amassed from day 1 of FFXI (basically the people who have horded gil since the game was released several years ago).

[Murto]

Hmm, well also you have to keep eyes out for markets that havent been exploited yet, or things that RMTs will just flat-out not touch with a 10foot clown pole.

You never see RMT in super dangerous places.

Ways I make gil:

Snoll arms = before "The Great Depression" worth 120k a stack, now 80k a stack. All snolls in the Ulegrande Range drop them, pretty often too.
Rmt dont monopolise this cuz Snolls = Explode = Death.

Cactus Stems = about 200-300k a stack, easy enough to drop. Only drop from the lvl 56-58 Cactuars in Kuftal Tunnel. They're hard for "normal" jobs to kill, but a couple of Bsts or a few Smns and its fine.

The Thiefs Belt quest in Bastok = Repeatable once a week, each time gives a belt that dispenses 5 Skeleton Keys. A stack of keys is about 200-300k, if you have 2 mules in bastok... its only about an hours work a week for your pocket money.

Then for lower lvls, and slightly slower income, theres money to be made buying stuff from Npc's and selling on the AH

Petfood Alpha and Beta is about 100gil a stack at City Chocostables (not jeuno or Whitegate). They sell for 3-5k stacks on the AH easy.

Same with Boneharness gears, in kazham, buy them for cheap, sell them for profit.

[EDIT]: And nq Crab and Fungaur Bst jugs in kazham too. specially fungars. Like 12k a stack at npc, sells for 20k or more

Then theres some items you can buy cheap off the AH that sell for heaps at the Npc....

Like Reraise 3 scroll (like 3k on AH, sells for lots more on AH) Panther mask (1-10k on AH, sells to npc for about 5 or 6K)

Also, hang onto every little thing that drops. Those bat wings you get in garlaige citadel? after the party, put them on your mule. Insect wings from Crawlers nest? Mule them.

Even with the great depression (which actually peaked last week, prices have been rising slowly over the last... 5-6 days or so), theres plenty of ways to make money. You just gotta find a market that suits you, your job and your laziness.

Also, i found lvling a new job from lvl 1-10 is a good way to get some pocket money. crystals sell for slightly more (2-4k as opposed to 1k) in the outlaying cities, Specially with an aketon, you can look at making 100k lvling a job from 1-10. And at the end of it, you have another job ready for dunes. (and a great way to kill time too)

But yea, if your on a pet job especially, team up with a mate, or a thf and duo stuff like cactuars. the ones in kuftal are easy enough to take down by a pair of smns, drgs, bsts or w/e.

Just find a market that fits into your pocket nice and snug and you'll be fine ^^

[Sakino]

Some BCNMs like "Let sleeping dogs die" people or RMT traders never seem to do. Last time a wizard mantle was sold on Phoenix was 2 years ago. The item is highly desirable so to some extent one could corner the market with them.

I guess just like in RL, the goal of any successful business is to find something that is needed by populace and to fill it.

[Okuza]

I guess just like in RL, the goal of any successful business is to find something that is needed by populace and to fill it

Yeah, but this is a game. If I'm gonna do something I don't like (work), then I'll do it in RL where I can get a lot more out of it than from doing it in the game.

I liked the economy in EQ a lot more than FFXI. You mostly could get away with just trading your lucky drops for someone else's lucky drops. There were things you had to camp for quests, but that was about it. FFXI is like having a second job in order to fund the fun stuff. WoW economy is utterly broken (currency is almost valueless).

The ideal economy for an MMORPG is where people can trade the results of what they do for fun with the results of what others do for fun with little or no onerous activities for anyone.

[Sakino]

Yeah, but this is a game. If I'm gonna do something I don't like (work), then I'll do it in RL where I can get a lot more out of it than from doing it in the game.

I dunno, I find doing BCNMs is much more enjoyable then camping NMs or farming for hours.

The ideal economy for an MMORPG is where people can trade the results of what they do for fun with the results of what others do for fun with little or no onerous activities for anyone.

I agree. The only MMO game that I have seen that approaches that level is Jumpgate. Of course in JG, players had an effect on the gobal economy and to the storyline itself. I've yet to see a MMORPG approach that concept.

[Sugami]

Not at all. Our shell sells off currency to cover glass fee then splits the rest with the people present. Usually all of itsells within a few minutes of completing the run. We have a couple shells that buy from us and they just pounce on the bazaars and snarf it all up.

Well that's true for anything if you have people lined up to buy it otherwise it's a long long wait for a sale. I've had a 1 Byne Bill for a couple of weeks, pretty sure some people have had currency for over a month.

WoW economy is utterly broken (currency is almost valueless).

lolWoW.

I dunno, I find doing BCNMs is much more enjoyable then camping NMs or farming for hours.

Yes but you need the seals for BCNMs and KSNMs, how do you get those? That's right, farming (if you intend on doing it frequently enough). The larger issues are; you need a good setup and a competant group to successfully win, even then drop rate can be pretty crappy unless it's a 100% drop like mannequin bits.

[Stockyboy]

WoW is only worth it if you can play for free.

[Sakino]

Yes but you need the seals for BCNMs and KSNMs, how do you get those? That's right, farming (if you intend on doing it frequently enough). The larger issues are; you need a good setup and a competant group to successfully win, even then drop rate can be pretty crappy unless it's a 100% drop like mannequin bits.

Yeah, the key is to do a BCNM that nobody does. That way you can give the public access to an item that isn't normally in game. When you do that and the item is desireable enough, you can name your price for it.

As for seals, I tend to amass them as a byproduct of me leveling solo classes. Seals also drop in the Promy areas regardless of your level (because the cap there allows you to earn exp).

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

WoW is only worth it if you can play for free.

Not even then.

However if you want to date a she Troll or a cow, WoW is THE way to go.

[Tianshii]

WoW is only worth it if you can play for free.

Not even then.

However if you want to date a she Troll or a cow, WoW is THE way to go.

thanks Tsybil... I think I hurt myself laughing @ that!
Our characters are "better looking", that's for sure...
Altho I dunno if FFXI is she-troll & cow free exactly

[Ambrey]

Most of the people that post negative comments are FFXI players that have never even tried playing WoW. I have played both and from a true gamers point of view, FFXI has more flaws in its design than WoW does. So you shouldn't make comments on something that you don't know anything about.

Also if you want to study facts, should do some research, it reveals that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions more players that are subscribed to WoW than FFXI. Also Blizzard has a better track record of customer service than SE.

Getting back onto topic, the subject was about the new RMT task force, stay on subject and try not to derail it like another KI.com thread that ends up being a slam fest. I think SE is trying to fix its major flaw in game design but I think they're dealing with the problem far too late as their customer base has already been damaged enough by the RMT's.

[Tianshii]

with regards to WoW..
A friend of mine plays & several months ago I did go over to his place to try it out.
I read through the booklet that came with the game & through another co-worker's guide-type thing.
I didn't like it. Any of it. Purrrhaps that's because I have been poisoned by Final Fantasy, but I just wanted to point out that I did give it a shot (all be it a small one). Just to see what I was "missing".

Back on Task!
I'm sure we can agree that RMT sap the fun out of aspects of this game, but keep in mind there are other ways us honest kittens can make gil. It will take longer, but with effort you can beat them
SE has attempted different ways to thwart RMT in the past... Hopefully this latest attempt will make a greater dent. Like Abrey said... purrrhaps it's too little too late.
That's okay with me. I find ways around RMT & I will continue to do so.
If by some miracle SE manages to eradicate them, HUZZAH!!! {/cheer}
If not, I'll be here until it is no longer fun for me or RL gets in the way.

[Stockyboy]

Most of the people that post negative comments are FFXI players that have never even tried playing WoW. I have played both and from a true gamers point of view, FFXI has more flaws in its design than WoW does. So you shouldn't make comments on something that you don't know anything about.

Also if you want to study facts, should do some research, it reveals that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions more players that are subscribed to WoW than FFXI. Also Blizzard has a better track record of customer service than SE.

Getting back onto topic, the subject was about the new RMT task force, stay on subject and try not to derail it like another KI.com thread that ends up being a slam fest. I think SE is trying to fix its major flaw in game design but I think they're dealing with the problem far too late as their customer base has already been damaged enough by the RMT's.

Opinion. I've played both too, when you have a have decent computer and can actually appreciate the visuals of seeing tavnazia on sunrise, find me something on WoW that looks better.

Oh, and I don't have screwed up pixelated graphics either, I play with edited resolution so it doesn't look bad.

Edit: There are more people subscribed to WoW cause it's more of a cartoony kids game. And when you say about SE GM's not doing anything, as far as we know they don't, but I'm sure they note down these things, can't ban someone for their word against anothers no?

[Murto]

Getting back to the topic (Lets have a WoW arguement/poll somewhere else ^^;).....

Got talking to a friend the other day.. we agreed that theres no SE-Employed Task Force that can successfully get rid of RMT.

Turn off the anti-Mpk patch though and watch them run from the likes of crazy beastmasters...

Ah yes, I miss the days where no RMT would dare to F*** with you. I remember "accidentally" wiping 4 parties in Garliage Citadel, 3 of them RMT ones (Being RMT, they're all Taru, all blm and always resting/afk - easy targets). Then of course not counting the rest XDXD

I say to SE, dont deal with it, let the RMT-Busting Professionals deal with it! Just give us a break! and while your at it, un-gimp us too!.

[Karou Ariyen]

RMT on hades have suffered huge blows, but it only accounts for 26 percent of known RMT. Still its bigger then anything we've delt them in the past.

[Sugami]

Also if you want to study facts, should do some research, it reveals that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions more players that are subscribed to WoW than FFXI.

Pfft, lightweights.

I'm not saying FFXI is good, 'cause it clearly isn't, I'm saying WoW is worse

Stockyboy pretty much hit the nail square on the head, more people play WoW simply because it's easier to get into. It's like FFXI Lite, so to speak. Not only that but WoW has/had better publicity/advertising, can't even buy FFXI on PS2 over here and it's not in any physical store for PC or 360 anymore.

As for RMT, anything SE do is better than nothing but yeah it most likely will never be completely irradicated.

[Sakino]

[And when you say about SE GM's not doing anything, as far as we know they don't, but I'm sure they note down these things, can't ban someone for their word against anothers no?

Exactly. They can't ban a person based on he said, she said. Banning an innocent player is faaaaar worse then letting a suspected RMTer stay on the server (PR wise). If a legit player gets banned you know they would just start a sh!t storm on every forum they could find... and if it happened on enough occasions it would kill FFXI faster then any RMT practice would.

When it comes to heavy handed GMs... be careful what you wish for.

[Pheonixhawk]

Also if you want to study facts, should do some research, it reveals that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions more players that are subscribed to WoW than FFXI.

Pfft, lightweights.

I'm not saying FFXI is good, 'cause it clearly isn't, I'm saying WoW is worse

Stockyboy pretty much hit the nail square on the head, more people play WoW simply because it's easier to get into. It's like FFXI Lite, so to speak. Not only that but WoW has/had better publicity/advertising, can't even buy FFXI on PS2 over here and it's not in any physical store for PC or 360 anymore.

As for RMT, anything SE do is better than nothing but yeah it most likely will never be completely irradicated.

Actually Sugami where im at, I can still buy all FFXI games for any system. PS2, PC, and 360. They even have plenty of em.

[Ambrey]

Also if you want to study facts, should do some research, it reveals that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions more players that are subscribed to WoW than FFXI.

Pfft, lightweights.

I'm not saying FFXI is good, 'cause it clearly isn't, I'm saying WoW is worse

Stockyboy pretty much hit the nail square on the head, more people play WoW simply because it's easier to get into. It's like FFXI Lite, so to speak. Not only that but WoW has/had better publicity/advertising, can't even buy FFXI on PS2 over here and it's not in any physical store for PC or 360 anymore.

As for RMT, anything SE do is better than nothing but yeah it most likely will never be completely irradicated.

How is WoW worse than FFXI's game design? I admit that FFXI has better graphics, breathtaking graphics in fact. If any of you have played the Warcraft series tho you would know that its supposed to be a little cartoony. Everything that has taken place in the Warcraft series is remembered and tied into WoW.

Yes WoW is easier to get into, its also not as time consuming. Anyone can log in and get something accomplished. Better than logging in and having to sit there and wait for hours just to get a party to get anything done. All of us here remember or know what its like to do that. Remember how players used to greet Dragoons or Rangers when looking for a party? OMG Ranger, OK! lolDragoon gtfo. Thats bs right there, at least in WoW every job is useful and wanted.

FFXI's end game only certain jobs are always in demand for end game shells, 90% are mage jobs, the rest are hardly even used or are only a limited number of melees are allowed into the end game shells. End game WoW, every job is wanted and needed and the bosses for end game take a hell of a lot more strategy to beat than just throwing tons of black mages or summoners at them.

So yeah, if you wanna think WoW is FFXI lite just cause you can log in and solo or actually accomplish something in a shorter amount of time... then so be it. I liked and enjoyed my time in FFXI, made some real good friends while I was there but I am glad that I dont have to put up with all the crap that game brings out in people. End game I have never seen so much E-peen in one place. Cookie cutter jobs and elitists, RMT's and greed driven shells lead by selfish backstabbing pricks.

FFXI shined for a long time for me, I still visit from time to time. But the whole FFXI > WoW discussions are getting old. Some of us prefer FFXI, some prefer WoW. And to each his/her own and either choice is great! Play what you enjoy! Thats my 2gil..

P.S.
Someone made the comment about only play WoW if you want to date a she cow or troll, think about what you just said cause you sound retarded. Most of the mithra population is played by guys just as well as most of the human, elven and taru females.

[Tianshii]

the subject was about the new RMT task force, stay on subject and try not to derail it like another KI.com thread that ends up being a slam fest.

okay...this thread really seems to be turning into a VS. match of 2 different MMORPG.

[Sugami]

I like derailing threads, it's fun get plenty of practice from the DRG forums on KI

Actually Sugami where im at, I can still buy all FFXI games for any system. PS2, PC, and 360. They even have plenty of em.

No sh*t, you're in Japan the game is primarily aimed at the Japanese market.

Here in the UK I don't recall seeing any FFXI adverts on TV, whereas WoW has had a lot of advertisement here. There is no EU version of FFXI on the PS2 to my knowledge.

Point being FFXI was only really aimed at Japan and N. America (took a year after US release to come to EU) whereas WoW was pushed everywhere on day of launch.

How is WoW worse than FFXI's game design?

Don't think I mentioned anything about game design persay... just the game as a whole.
Off the top of my head; it's too easy, economy is worse than FFXI's, general mentality is that of a 10yr old's, game lacks depth...

I'm not sticking up for FFXI, I'll be the first one to stand up and say FFXI sucks but I just like slating WoW

[Murto]

You all dont realise how lucky you all are. FF11 only came out in Australia this time last year. ; ;
We dont even get FF12 until February next year.

Seriously though, before the mpk patch, Rmt were way less common, or seen, as they are now. Mainly cuz I used to solo Hellmines in GC and park the things right on top of them. BOOM, self-destruct. RMT1 takes 2.8k dmg. RMT2 takes 2.4k dmg. RMT3 takes 3k dmg.

Wait until they get back up, repeat.

About the most you can do now is go to the Citipati NM pop in Attowa Chasm, wait for them to get charmed then send Antlions after them.

Mmmmm, my antlion likes the taste of RMT flesh. Tastes like chinese!

[Tianshii]

About the most you can do now is go to the Citipati NM pop in Attowa Chasm, wait for them to get charmed then send Antlions after them.

that sounds kinda fun. My BST is only lvl 8 though

Something non-RMT to report...
I was camping shiki for a ls-mate today who needed YYR.
Sadly, he had to go to work about 6 min. before the thing popped.
About 2min. before shiki popped, the other group there used flee/sneak and took off. I asked the COR with me, "pop?"
He said no and re-checked wide scan.
A min. later it did pop... My COR pal suggested they probably had a packet sniffer.
Can't the honest players get a break for once?!

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Widescan is slow. If they had spotters scattered about they would have a visual about 30 seconds before it showed on WS.

Of course a packet sniffer would give them even more time.

[Kintrra]

Um....they /couldn't/ have gotten a visual last I recall. Shikigami weapon is (according to every site I've checked) supposed to spawn invisible, and only aggros on linking with other weapons in the area. @.@

[Pheonixhawk]

No sh*t, you're in Japan the game is primarily aimed at the Japanese market.

Japaneese Market? AAFES is a company run by America. All the items and games are in english. Absolutely no profit goes to Japan, except maybe for being on thier land (Renting the building etc etc.) And even at that, thier on a Marine Corps base so im pretty sure their paying the Marine Corps for the expenses of renting out buildings on base. Why would funds go to japan?

But I feel ya, on not being able to get good games because of sh*tty advertisement. Hell I STILL haven't seen a SINGLE FRIGGIN COPY of FFXII yet over here. And none of my buddies have it either. And last I checked Sugami, you did get TOAU before I did. Everyone on this forum did I think. Remember my post

[Tianshii]

Um....they /couldn't/ have gotten a visual last I recall. Shikigami weapon is (according to every site I've checked) supposed to spawn invisible, and only aggros on linking with other weapons in the area. @.@

That is correct! It aggro's magic, too.

And to Tsybil, they were all clustered near us... And it was literally a good 2min. before it popped that they all raced off. (of course the COR and I gave chase!!! We didn't care too much losing the claim since the SMN who needed the YYR had left already... But cheating makes me a miffed kitten regardless

[Okuza]

About 2min. before shiki popped, the other group there used flee/sneak and took off. I asked the COR with me, "pop?" He said no and re-checked wide scan. A min. later it did pop... My COR pal suggested they probably had a packet sniffer.

Just an FYI, but a packet sniffer won't show you the spawns. The only thing that would do that is a packet spoofer -- it would need to simulate sending a wide-scan request to the server (using the ID of someone in game and in the zone) and then interpret the results. There's currently nothing that will do this. The spawns (with loot) in the zone aren't automatically sent to the client in FFXI the way the were in EQ. You can't have a sniffer that shows you all the critters on a 2nd comp along with all the loot each one will drop.

Sounds to me like they just pulled it the way I pull Shikigami. You get an absolutely precise Time-of-Death (down to the second). Then you go back to the zone 21H later. At about 21H-60s, you flee around the entire zone, pulling a huge train behind you. This pops shiki. You run the train past your friends, they grab shiki and you zone out. Shiki has no jitter at all on his respawn. It's exactly 21H.

BTW, there are all kinds of better ways to grab Shiki. I just use flee 'cuz I play THF. The lullaby method works even better if you have enough brd friends.