Bst has no combat JAs or JT's, /war is great for using with Scythe (Bsts' next best weapon), and /nin is more suited to using 2 Axes.Sugami wrote:/WAR and Axe not work? It's a better skill than Scythe isn't it? And you still get Attack Bonus, Berserk, Warcry and Double Attack none of which /NIN offers.
Yea, i gotta fix that ; ;Pheonixhawk wrote:Thats a pretty huge Siggy Murto.
(Crabs deal blunt dmg by the way). Kclub {Can I have it?}Double-Attack is 10% from sub/war. So, it's a straight +10% to both DPS and TP-rate. JT is +10 atk, which is mostly meaningless -- maybe +0.5% DPS. 'Zerk is +25% ATK -- say +100'ish ATK 60% of the time if you keep it up, though you better not get hit -- you're even more of an MP sponge with -25% def. Rougly 3-5% DPS gain while it's up, so maybe 3% overall. Add that to DA gains and you end up with maybe +15% DPS and +10% TP.Sugami wrote:The only bonus you get from /NIN are Utsusemi (how often does Rampage or Guillotine pull hate for you? Do you even get Guillotine?), bonus from off hand weapon and 15% pseudo-Haste from Dual Wield II. With lack of Haste gear I don't think it'll amount to all that much TP for you and you're missing out on Double Attack which probably makes up for it up but I'm only guessing here.
I shouldn't think one single handed Axe would be any slower on TP gain than a Scythe
I doubt there'd be much difference either way in performance, just that everyone is a sheep and thinks /NIN and Dual Wield is the best thing since sliced bread
Sugami wrote:People tend to overlook the effectiveness of Attack Bonus, Double Attack, Berserk. Attack+10 is a lot, why do people pay millions more for an extra +1 or +2 if it wasn't (besides them being white-border whores and possible gilbuyers)? It's really Double Attack + Berserk combo which makes WAR sub so sexy.
Go into a party as /WAR and you can swap between Axe and Scythe as you please. Go as /NIN and you're stuck on Axe, might get a bit boring
Your crab doesn't allow you to WS quicker, Double Attack does. Your crab may have its own WS but more often than not it'll be something crappy like Stoneskin or Shell
SAM have any Attack Bonus traits? People have tested Hasso and as a sub it seems to grant roughly Haste+10%, Accuracy+10 and STR+5 (at 75). It's a fun sub to have but doesn't top Berserk and Double Attack for pure DDage.
at least for purpose of support job. 
Well, I wouldn't say that. It makes a very nice sub-job for soloing as RDM.Sugami wrote:No one really cares about BLU
It's a lot from a single piece of gear, but in terms of actuall effect on your damage output the effect is so small that you can't even parse the difference. I generally use 10 ATK = ~1% dps and I'm being really generous there. I've seen a lot of folks jump up and down and say things like "O.Kote makes me hit for 60 instead of 30!", but I've parsed H.Kote on myself (15atk instead of 20) and I only get about +1~2% (usually closer to 1%).Sugami wrote:Attack+10 is a lot
Yes. If you're not using Beserk, you're not getting enough benefit from sub/war to make it nicer than another sub. Personally, I forget to use Beserk all the time. If you're good at keeping it running, then you'll maximize your benefts from sub/war.Sugami wrote:It's really Double Attack + Berserk combo which makes WAR sub so sexy.
{Hmmm.}If that makes Hasso damn nice and close to identical in DD power to sub/war. Sub/war = +10~15% dps depending on how religiously you use Beserk and how much you gain from it. Haste 10% gives 10% dps & tp. That part is identical to DA from WAR. I'd guess ACC+10 and STR+5 would be 2~3% dps. That puts sub/sam at 10~13% dps gain to sub/war's 10~15%. And, the really nice thing about it is that it doesn't do this by creating a larger hate spike for the WS while the player has 25% lower DEF. It's a shift from extra spike to extra DOT.Sugami wrote:People have tested Hasso and as a sub it seems to grant roughly Haste+10%, Accuracy+10 and STR+5 (at 75). It's a fun sub to have but doesn't top Berserk and Double Attack for pure DDage.
O-kay... I'm sorry but that's showing up the WARs on Phoenix. Subbing DRK doesn't enhance Great Sword and it's something like a B or B- skill rating as opposed to the A+ from Great AxeStockyboy wrote:Drk is becoming a more used SJ now, with Wars having a newly found Fad for great swords, I see lots of Wars as /Drk on Phoenix D:
Okay for RDM and DRG is makes a good solo sub but I wasn't talking about soloScarlettPheonix wrote:Well, I wouldn't say that. It makes a very nice sub-job for soloing as RDM.
Speaking from a DRG's PoV there's no reason you should turn Berserk off when you're in these 70+ parties and probably 60+ too. Hate can be Jumped away with ease and if you still have it after a High Jump then something's wrong with the party.Okuza wrote:Yes. If you're not using Beserk, you're not getting enough benefit from sub/war to make it nicer than another sub. Personally, I forget to use Beserk all the time. If you're good at keeping it running, then you'll maximize your benefts from sub/war.
The Haste and Accuracy is nice, lets not forget the free 60% TP but the STR is pretty meaningless in the long run and coupled with the loss of Double Attack and Berserk doesn't really pull it even to /WAR.Okuza wrote:{Hmmm.}If that makes Hasso damn nice and close to identical in DD power to sub/war. Sub/war = +10~15% dps depending on how religiously you use Beserk and how much you gain from it. Haste 10% gives 10% dps & tp. That part is identical to DA from WAR. I'd guess ACC+10 and STR+5 would be 2~3% dps. That puts sub/sam at 10~13% dps gain to sub/war's 10~15%. And, the really nice thing about it is that it doesn't do this by creating a larger hate spike for the WS while the player has 25% lower DEF. It's a shift from extra spike to extra DOT.
Haste and ACC also make it a lot easier to shift to eating meat instead of eating sushi. If you're over 90% hit rate without food, then usually you'll gain more from meat than fish. You really need a ton of +acc gear and full weapon merits to do that, though.
not really much of an issue for merit parties.Spiral Hell or Cross Reaper? I'd imagine Cross Reaper would be the one you don't get as Spiral Hell is questable (240?) and you get an A- skill(?). I've heard DRK's say SH is only better than CR at 300%Murto wrote:Yea, I've been talking to the Bsts in the community. /nin is the way to go. /war with scythe is ok, but we dont get Spiral Hell (the big hitting ws for Scythe), and even though having attack bonus, warcry, doubleattack and so forth brings good DoT to the table... we lose out lots more /war with 2h weapon than we do just /nin.
I might go skillup, i wanna try it. Still, with martial scythe you can use spiral hell at 200% and have the effects of 300% which is justSugami wrote:No Guillotine? Dang that's the whole point of using Scythe (and it looks cool). BST gets Evisceration? What skill rating they have in dagger?
A+ > B+ it still seems stupid to use Great Sword over Great Axe, with both Axe and Great Axe WAR can be in both Light and Darkness.
If they were using it for HNM then I'd expect they'd sub THF over anything else to make sure they land that WS.
