End Game.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:02 am

Sugami wrote:A PLD/NIN keeps hate worse than a NIN/WAR at 75, ontop of which they're damage is probably on par to a PUPs if not worse. Really takes a lot of effort and the right gear to pull off, I've yet to see someone do it. Still why /NIN? 'cause they take hate so much without Provoke? Offhand weapon won't give them as much as the Attack Bonus from /WAR not to mention Double Attack and Berserk.

As for Recast timer's Cures are ready whenever they need it not to mention there's someone else to Cure them. I have no idea what the recast on Flash is but they have plenty of other hate tools, doesn't really need to be any quicker.
Not saying they won't benefit from Haste it's just that it won't make all that much of a difference whereas a NIN requires their shadows and need the recast timer to be ready ASAP.

/sigh....how many times do I have to post back on comments like this? ~.~

PLD/NIN can put out good numbers. Problem is you people keep expecting us to tank and DD at the same time. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS! ><; Of course a PLD/NIN is gonna hold hate worse than a NIN/WAR...we lack Double Attack, Provoke, Berserk, and Warcry, not to mention 2-4 levels worth of Dual Wield. The only thing we keep is Flash and our own /ja's. However, please don't ever comment about us never being able to put out damage. I've put out 1100+ Vorpal Blades on VTs. Same as a PUP, feh, yeah, maybe if you include their Automaton's damage too.

Post by **Shirai** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:53 am

A good PLD/NIN can use damage dealing to keep hate with the help of being SATA'd, timing of flashes, JA's and weapons skills.
In some events PLD's have to come nin subbed to tank stuff.
on the Airship mission PLD/NINs actually stand a very good ground DDing.

Other then that I have to agree with Kintrra indeed that PLDs can stand their ground pretty nicely when it comes to DD and when it comes to party mechanics these days endgame the PLDs with decent DD equipment can hold their ground nicely between the rest of them.
It's just the mentality of people that say PLD's are tanks onry.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:04 am

I kinda side with Kintraa. True a Pld can do great dmg as pld/nin (at least the ones ive seen) but tanking with /nin sub is a different story. Then again, why would anyone try to force a Pld to tank with /nin. That's like telling a rdm to go solo a god with /mnk. Im just sayin that IMO that SE made different subjobs for different reasons. Why try to use a tanking subjob for DD etc etc. Then again I have also seen pld / nin tank pretty well also. (lost hate a few times, but still did pretty decent) thats just my two cents. Not like they matter though, im still considered low lvl and I still havent even touched end game yet.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:37 pm

I always include pet damage, I'm a DRG

Fact of the matter is compared to every pure-DD out there a PLD can't keep up with the numbers, not saying it's miles behind but it is behind.

Last and only time I partied with one he couldn't keep hate to my normal hits before WS, I know you said they shouldn't but he thought he could, and we had a THF who was Tricking him ontop of it.

Had a PLD ask if they could sub THF in a party, bigger Spinning Slash damage and we had a NIN. I asked her to stay /WAR (not realising there was a NIN at the time), later when the NIN left she took over tanking and used Sword and Shield.
I can see how /THF with Great Sword can increase damage, but I still stand by what I said about /NIN. It has no offensive bonuses except what you can put in your offhand, that being said it's nothing compared to the offensive bonuses /WAR will give you. Is it because everyone's so scared about being an MP sponge? Garanteed a PLD/NIN won't take hate unless they Flash and WS at the start of a fight or toss out a lot of Cures but oh look you're sponging on your MP anyways

PLD have access to some good DD gear, Haubergeon, but swords are pittiful damage, Great Sword on the other hand is what 3rd or 4th strongest weapon in the game? A- or B+ skill for PLD?
I reiterate /NIN offers no offensive bonuses, so why not /WAR with Great Sword? Soon /SAM with Great Sword too. At least you'd be able to backup the NIN if you're /WAR, am I missing something here?

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:28 pm

In most TP Burn parties the idea is to have hate bouncing between the DDs and /nin is used to mitigate damage from the spike damage as well as the nasty AoEs that many popular TP Burn prey have.

To be honest, in a purely TP Burn party sense, I'd prefer that all DDs come /nin for that very reason. /nin really makes a difference on how much hair I pull out when main healing. Also, PLD/nins especially in these situations are generally self-sufficient. With the Sanction Refresh and thier own Auto-Refresh they hardly need any RDM Refresh and can pretty much take care of themselves.

A DD PLD makes for a very happy RDM

From a discussion about DRKs in Endgame on the Alla RDM Forum:

PLD/NIN gets half of your delay reduction right off the bat. Suppanomimi helps them more than it helps you, more or less, if you want to include it. Company Sword is a freaking D56 weapon in a full party, behind a job with A+ instead of A- (difference of 3.5 weapon merits). Vorpal is four-hit WS compared to Jin's three. Joyeuse is going to increase the TPing speed by over 20%.

End Game Single Handed Swords if chosen properly are quite powerful and they have the advantage over a 2handed weapon on DPS and DoT as well, especially if JoyToy is off handed.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:07 pm

To summarize:

PLD/NIN is not about tanking, it is about DDing in endgame TP burn parties.

No one worries about hate in those parties unless the mob heads for the mages. They rarely live long enough to try. Voke is used for pulling.

Everything a PLD/WAR uses for hate control is on a recast timer. For the Cures it doesn't matter much.

I wish RDMs could use the Company Sword.

Post by **Shirai** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:15 pm

There you have it, a good equiped PLD/NIN without even having uber gear can easily keep up in DPS and WS damage when it comes to exp and burn parties.
And it indeed just takes a Hauby and above swords to do so,
if you add in a heca piece or 2 for WS's and see your avarage DD put to shame by a sword wielder.

As for PLD/NIN tanking.
It's pretty easy with the right gear to keep hate against the other DD's unless the DD really makes an effort to take it off.
It takes me little effort to take hate off a full Enmity geared nin/war on whm if I want to.
Sure they miss abilities like Provoke/warcry/berserk but with the right strategy flash, a well timed WS and cures can do a lot.
Of course a well placed SATA WS behind the tank helps loads keeping it on him.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:19 pm

I'm gonna guess none of the PLDs on your server have anything remotely related to brains when it comes to DD'ing. ~.~

Company Sword is the sword to use in a pt setup. Period. I see no reason to use anything else. In a full pt it has a base damage of 56, with normal sword delay. I don't use anything besides Tatami Shield if I'm DD'ing, and half the time I use it for normal tanking as well. If I do go /NIN (which honestly I don't very often, but it has it's uses anyway), I'm dual wielding companies. The damage output on that sword is better than any one handed axe I think, tho I haven't looked through axes for damage lately. I've seen a DRK hit a mob for roughly 220 with their Scythe, I'm hitting for 120-150 with my sword.

DD gear is Haubergeon, Tatami shield, Spike Necklace, Coral Earring x2, Ruby Ring x2, Battle Bracers+1, Amemet mantle, Warwolf Belt (Life Belt in case I'm actually having trouble hitting for some reason), and Royal Knight's Breeches. For building TP, again, depending on acc vs whatever we're fighting, I'll either leave my O-hat on, or switch out to Walahra Turban for tp building, then put O-hat back on for WS. I use Crimson Boots for TP building, and Hecatomb Leggings for WS. I put out WSs usually very little below other pt members, and my DoT makes up for it, since I hit for more per hit 3/4 of the time.

Simply put tho, PLD is not NIN. Either we tank, or we DD. You're not gonna get both. If we do both, we're gonna take some damage. There's just no way around that. =\

As to the GS argument, well...suffice to say most PLDs don't get the chance to keep GS skilled up while leveling. So when we hit end-game, in order to get GS caught up takes massive amounts of skill-up parties. I just recently even broke into Spinning Slash territory with mine, and I'm a skill-up fiend with the weapons I can use on PLD (Polearm at 175 atm, and it's an E rating if that tells you anything). At end-game, lv.75, we cap GS at 250. Just at the level for {Ground Strike}. So, in order to use GS as a decent damage dealer, we'd have to first cap it, which would still leave us 26 skill short of our A+ 276 with Sword. Then you'd have to add in Acc+ gear to make up for that lacking skill. All and all, if you've got it capped and such, yes, it's a viable way to exp...but personally, if I wanna put out good DoT and decent WSs, I'll keep my Company Sword and Tatami out. I get out GS and /THF37 just to toy around with. Not saying such a setup doesn't have good damage potential, cuz it does have good potential. Or would if everyone wasn't obsessed with TPburn pts now days. In a normal skillchain using group with an alternate tank, a PLD could go /THF and toss on enough Acc+ till they get to tp, then toss on all the STR+ gear and SATA {Spinning Slash} onto the tank (something I'd personally like to do some time). Plus, if someone wants {Light}....yeah, lemme get out my GS...since {Savage Blade} kinda....well...sucks...yeah. <.<;;;

And before anyone says anything, yes, I'm a jumpy kitty on this subject.

I just get tired of seeing "PLDs can't DD" but then seeing "we don't want a PLD tank, NIN onry".....got that a LOT leveling up through PLD, so I determined myself to prove that PLD does have a use outside of just tanking. So far, I've managed to disprove the theory that we're tanks onry. ^^;

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:42 pm

I just cannot understand the NIN tank onry mentality.

Sure they hardly ever get hit, but everyone else in the party does.

Things my melee kitty does as RNG/WAR (L 38 now) with a NIN tank (no she cannot /NIN any more than I can).

Squid Sushi rather than Sole, Dhamel Pie is DANGERIOUS. Back way down on Rate of Fire. Never closes a SC, mostly avoids SCing. Barrage only when the mob is as 1/3 health or even better almost dead. Never uses Berserk against Bats, Holly Bolts draw quite enough hate from them as it is. In one Garliage party she had a WAR/NIN tank and she NEVER used Berserk but still tanked way too much. Nocht gear is tissue paper with Racc +.

In my entire carrer as RDM and WHM I have partied with maybe three GOOD NIN tanks. The kind where someone takes damage maybe once every 3 - 4 fights. A piss poor PLD holds hate better than most NINs, a good one better than all but the best NINs. I have pulled hate off NINs with nothing but my Debuff/Refresh cycle.

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:34 pm

Seriously.

Most fair to middling Ninjas can't keep hate off the mages (without a THF) in a normal skillchain party- especially not after 60 when the DDs really start coming into thier full power.

In TP Burns it doesn't matter so much because everything does die so quickly. If a mage does gets hit the only way they'll die is if they're a) nekkid as the day they were born or b) Murphy decides to stick his pointy nose into things and in those cases, someone was going to die anyway, no matter what anyone did.

But to be fair- if a party is overhunting the most pimped out and experienced Paladin is going to lose hate to the mages because of all Cure bombs being dropped.

Gabryel · Post by **Gabryel** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:51 pm

Kintrra wrote:I'm gonna guess none of the PLDs on your server have anything remotely related to brains when it comes to DD'ing. ~.~

Company Sword is the sword to use in a pt setup. Period. I see no reason to use anything else. In a full pt it has a base damage of 56, with normal sword delay. I don't use anything besides Tatami Shield if I'm DD'ing, and half the time I use it for normal tanking as well. If I do go /NIN (which honestly I don't very often, but it has it's uses anyway), I'm dual wielding companies. The damage output on that sword is better than any one handed axe I think, tho I haven't looked through axes for damage lately. I've seen a DRK hit a mob for roughly 220 with their Scythe, I'm hitting for 120-150 with my sword.

Totally agree with you there Kintrra, as a War/Nin alot of the time myself there are instances where going sword/sword to a pt is much better dmg than axe/axe or even axe/sword. Company/Joyeuse is the combo to use here, also if you have em (which i do, lol) Suppanomimi(+5sword) and Fortitude torque(+7sword) are the way to go. On a maxed sword skill War has 250, add 12 for those 2 items, and there you got 262, very nice before merits (IF you choose to merit that way, i've heard of many doing so). Vorpal every chance you get, or Savage if you got it for possible SCs.

Edit: If you have it, Ridill gets total priority over Joyeuse ofcourse, lol I only said Joyeuse cuz I myself don't have Ridill. ;; /sad panda

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:44 pm

So you still DD with /WAR? I just don't see why everyone seems to think /NIN means more damage when it clearly doesn't

another bonus of going /WAR is if the NIN leaves then bingo you can tank without running back to Whitegate first (provided you carry both sets of gear).
No accuracy gear?

I take it you're forced to chug on sushi then.

PLD is like DRG in the sense they have no native damage increasing job traits but what a DRG does get is a little buddy that adds a small chunk of damage to the his overall damage pool.

Thought Ground Strike was at 240, DRKs can quest at 72 I believe and it's generally weaker than Spinning Slash unless at 300% (from what I've heard).

WAR Sword skill is what... C? B- best? You're not going to get away with that unless eating sushi and that lowers your damage compared to using 2 axes (or even a great axe) and eating meat.
These multi-hit weapons just seem like toys really, weak damage and faster TP. I'd imagine it evens out but the mob is getting TP quicker so...

RNG does stupid damage up to like crabs (50ish) and therefore big hate. You usually use Sharpshot with Barrage? Big hate in both JAs right there let alone landing all 4 arrows/bolts/bullets (at that level).

ScarlettPheonix · Post by **ScarlettPheonix** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:05 pm

Not really, since in a TP Burn set-up the idea is to gain TP and kill quickly. Giving the mob TP isn't an issue by this point, or shouldn't be since anyone hitting the mob should have shadows up to absorb damage

Joyeuse has a decent damage rating and since it attacks twice about 50% of the time its effective delay is half of what its listed at which makes it a good weapon in general and an excellent weapon for TP gain purposes. Also with /nin you get the subtle blow trait so you're not giving the mob as much TP as it being a Double Attk weapon would imply.

Ridill is even more effective for the same reasons, but it attacks more often and has a higher damage rating @ 40.

Gabryel · Post by **Gabryel** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:30 pm

Sugami wrote:WAR Sword skill is what... C? B- best? You're not going to get away with that unless eating sushi and that lowers your damage compared to using 2 axes (or even a great axe) and eating meat.
These multi-hit weapons just seem like toys really, weak damage and faster TP. I'd imagine it evens out but the mob is getting TP quicker so...

I think you actually need to experience what this combo can do before critizing it. Heres some examples:

These were considering the fact I had on WAR AF1 and Brutal Earring for the enhanced Double attack of each. For the sword purposes Suppanomimi and Fortitude Torque was also used; for Axe, Temperence Torque was swapped out for Fortitude. Also I have 2 merits currently in Axe, none in sword. Both skills capped: 250 sword, 269 axe.

Edit: might as well give you the full make-up of gear, incase there were any queries:
Main: Woodsville Axe or Company Sword
Sub: Maneater or Joyeuse
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Unicorn Cap
Neck Temperence Torque or Fortitude Torque
Ear1: Suppanomimi
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body: Hauberk
Hands: Warrior's Muffler's
Ring1: Rajas Ring
Ring2: Jaeger Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle+1
Waist: Life Belt
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Fighter's Calligae

During Weapon Skill use, Changes to gear are as follows:
Ear1: Minuet Earring
Body: Hecatomb Harness
Hands: Hecatomb Mittens
Ring2: Flame Ring
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Warrior's Cuisses
Feet: Savage Gaiters

On Decorative weapons in Ru'Aun Gardens
-------------------------------------------------
Using my Axe combo Woodsville/Maneater:
AVG dmg per swing with sole sushi eaten: 110 Crit: 175
Rampages: 300-1500 (current best on those being 1493)
Double Attack rate: 41% (counted painstakingly out of 100 attacks)

Using my Sword combo Company/Joyeuse(Full party):
AVG dmg per swing with sole sushi eaten: 140/80 Crit: 200/120
Vorpal Blades: 500-1200 (current best on those being 1206)
Double Attack rate including Joyeuse extra attacks: 72% (same method)

Now....Consider that both swords that were used have a lower overall delay than the axes, coupled with the extra attacks from the joyeuse, The lack of overall natural skill from the WAR job doesn't seem to matter much.

Post by **Sugami** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:00 am

How easy is it to get those items? Not at all

then again people without them probably don't have Joyeuse or Redill.

Faster you hit the mob the more TP it gets regardless of how quickly it dies. More TP the more TP attacks it'll use, being bad and/or annoying against flies and imps, mamool ja and trolls.

Anyways point being WAR with dual axes will eat meat over sushi upping their damage considerably. Using Sword they're forced into eating sushi otherwise it's whiffga for that redill or whatever making it pointless.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:41 am

I don't seem to have the same accuracy problem most DDs seem to. <.<; My natural attack in DD gear is 376, if I use Coeurl Subs, it jumps to...454 I think, haven't checked in a while. Berserk will push me into the 500+ zone, and my shield is capped, so even with Tatami being a size 4 shield, I still have a fair amount of blocking. My DD gear gives me Acc+13 total, with a possibility of tossing on another 20 if need be. Part of why I don't seem to rely on the accuracy+ gear like some jobs is that PLD's natural Sword skill is A+, unlike a lot of jobs having A-. So Where another job caps at 269, I'm capping at 276. Just a thought on that score. Then again, I also rely on the fact that Sword swings faster than all of these Dual Wielders and 2handed weapons to make up for the few misses I do have.

EDIT: Page 6 are mine!

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:11 am

I dont have accuracy problems either. usually only during Beseiged and Dynamis becuase I dont waste food during them. other then that, I really don't have much problems with accuracy.

Post by **Sugami** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:10 am

Maybe 2-handed weapons need more accuracy

If I'm using sushi I'll have Woodsmanx2, Chivy Chain, Assault Earring, Fowling Earring and Life Belt if I'm having issues with certain Mamool Jas. That's Acc+20-30 in gear, ontop of which I have 3 Polearm merits (got the 3rd recently) and Accuracy Bonus trait so that's another Acc+15 roughly.

If I were to goto the Mire I'd use a Coeurl Sub or Hedgehog Pie, Life Belt for the Sword Belt +1 and Wyrm Finger Gauntlets for the Tarasque Mitts giving me a total of Acc+50, that does me fine but accuracy is slightly worse. That setup would not be able to hit Mamool Ja in the Thickets either and Trolls is definately a sushi setup.

Noticed on WAR when trying to level Great Axe that the accuracy is God aweful but switch over to Axes with pretty much the same skill rating (obviously the same gear) the accuracy is a lot better

Don't be cheap Ka-chan

Buy cheap food, 2K for a Sis Kebabi from NPC or get Squid Sushi, what I do (or did I'm gonna leave my endgame shell soon

).

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:33 am

i do use food! during merit/nm/quest fights, but i dont waste it in beseiged or dynamis cuz i rarely get to hit. my dynamis shell lags me so i rarely get up to the mob, but when i do its clean cut swining except thf mobs who 2hour

i use squid/bream/tentacle/tuna when i can

Post by **Shirai** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:56 pm

KarouKaniyashia wrote:i do use food! during merit/nm/quest fights, but i dont waste it in beseiged or dynamis cuz i rarely get to hit. my dynamis shell lags me so i rarely get up to the mob, but when i do its clean cut swining except thf mobs who 2hour

i use squid/bream/tentacle/tuna when i can

Dynamis mobs have quite a low evasion, so food is not really needed on those to land hits.
Or you must be extremely gimpy geared.
Thief mobs might have a bit more evasion but in my Dyna LS the smn and blms usually take care of those when they 2 hour.
Same goes for the PLD mobs.
Next to that it's a waste to use expensive food if you die a lot in there.
If you do like to use food in Dynamis, the cheaper ATK foods are pretty useful though.
Things like Sis Kebabi can get you that extra bit of atk to get higher dmg spikes on them and thus killing them faster.
Especially on mobs where you have to unload TP after 50% like the ninjas and whms to prevent them from using their 2 hours.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:51 pm

Shirai wrote:Dynamis mobs have quite a low evasion

City dynamis must be T or maybe VT. They're really weak. Glacier seems about the same. Xarca demons are IT++ from how they behave. High def and evasion. ><

Shirai wrote:it's a waste to use expensive food

LOL. Yeah, I skip food when I know I'm going to die soon (sac pull coming, etc).

BTW, I saw several folks say "I don't have an accuracy problem" but they didn't quote their actual hit rate. If you don't parse, chances are good you have an accuracy problem. Hit rate should be around 95% if you have good accuracy. If it's less than 90%, you have a problem in the sense that +acc gear or sushi would likely increase your DPS a lot more than +atk gear/food.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:26 pm

usually we dont do nin/mnk/thf/pld til after, and i rarely die in dynamis, odd I know.

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:39 am

Why should it be around 95%? I don't see a reason why there's a magical accuracy number to hit. Unless you're just trying to give yourself a reason for bigger e-peen. Parsers only help cause an elitist attitude in people. I've parsed the same damage as a DRK before.

http://www.dawezy.com/ff11/05-19-2006.html

You'll have to do some scrolling to get past Dawezy's solo slaughters. ^^;

There's a bit of proof for ya if you want it. That's an HTML file from a friend of mine's parser during an uncapped Assault at Leujaom Sanctum. Dawezy's the DRK75 (parser hadn't been updated), Reyvn's a THF75, I was using PLD/NIN for that run, no food. So if I were running PLD/WAR, the numbers would be higher, maybe more on the average melee hit and a touch lower on WS, but that'd be it. The worms on that run rate VT to a 75, so roughly the same as the mobs we exp off of in places like Caedarva Mire.

Post by **Sugami** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:28 am

95% is the supposed accuracy cap, with sushi everyone should be able to hit the cap 70+. Without I'd want no less than 90%, missing with a 2-handed weapon is a lot more noticable than with a 1-handed

I thought Assault mobs conned as T if you're at the highest level for that cap (or uncap), they are in the 60 caps at least. Thing about those worms is they die quickly and have weak defense. Parsing on them will be skewed towards anyone who got a WS off to those who didn't.

If you can get someone to parse your accuracy for you next time you merit in DD gear (with and without sushi), I'm quite interested to know

BTW if you can take a DRG75 (or 2) to 50 or 60 cap ones, Call Wyvern outside before you go in and they won't get capped. In 60 cap Azure almost hits as hard as I do and obviously twice as fast

I'm not sure if this trick would work on BSTs too but it'd make Carrie uber if does

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:55 pm

It's not really a magical number. It's just the point of diminishing returns for accuracy. It's ridiculously hard to impossible to improve accuracy past 95%. Personally, I'm happy with anything 90% or better. I've had a few parses versus weak stuff that were over 95, but those easily fall into the error-factor category.

If your goal is to improve your dps, you can increase the size of your hits or you can increase their frequency. When your hit rate is under 90%, increasing frequency is usually a lot easier than increasing the size of each hit. By swapping out atk/str/etc for acc, you might loose 1-2% on the size, but gain 8-9% on the frequency. It does depend on job. The more of your dps that comes from strait DoT, the more higher accuracy helps over bigger hits. Jobs that get a lot of their dps from JA and WS sometimes do better with a bit lower acc in order to raise up the JA/WS side instead. Playstyle matters, too. Unless it's one of the major gear items, you kind of need to see how you do with various things rather than just use what works for someone else. If you don't parse, you won't know how to improve your char.

If you ever get the chance, group with someone that is both gil-rich and parses and doesn't have a serious epeen attitude. I have a few friends that fall into that category and it's damn amazing what they've managed to do for their dps and their all-out racy damage (like averaging 9-10k damage versus DL).

BTW, on the dynamis subject again, I parsed my THF's hit rate for D-Sandy last night and also during some Mire XP (omg, thf got a group!

). Mire (T-VT) was 81%. D-Sandy was 92%. I swap gear a lot, but in general I was wearing more +acc in mire than in dynamis (evade there for pulling). So, the D-Sandy Orcs are probably Decent-Even as far as their evasion goes. Dynamis-City stuff is really weak.

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:33 pm

81% sounds kinda low

then again THFs standard hits aren't all that important but if you miss too much you won't WS fast enough.

I know 1 miss out of 5 I would not be happy with, something like 4 seconds for me to take a swing that's a rather large propotion of my damage gone.

I take it parsers are something that comes with windower or an additional add-on for it?

Gabryel · Post by **Gabryel** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:02 pm

KarouKaniyashia wrote:usually we dont do nin/mnk/thf/pld til after, and i rarely die in dynamis, odd I know.

LMAO...wish I had your condition >.> I do so much initial damage to the mobs (I am the main targeter in my shell) that they stick to me alot of the time. The tanks and mages finally got used to my methods, lol, but it wasn't uncommon for me to die 10+ times each run due to just too much dmg output. (and I say this like its a bad thing >.>)

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:45 pm

I've been in a few Dynamis's, and my problem is I treat it like a party. Engage, jump, high jump. Mob decides to 2hr and kills the tank...since I've hit it 3 times already it turns to me now. ;_; I need to learn to hold back untill the mob is at 60%-40% hp, then wipe it out.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:21 pm

Dynamis is practically impossable to use sneak attack in T_T ...and beseiged is even worse T_T

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:28 am

There's a trick for dynamis sneak attack. It's not magic, but it does help a little bit: trick attack on tank, then circle and sneak attack while trick has it glued for a little. WS seperately. The one hard part about trick attack in dynamis is that you can't trick on anyone in the zone. You can only trick on people that are in your own alliance.

You get bonus points for tricking on your own taru whm. Double bonus if they die from it. Tripple if they can't figure out why they had agro. Remember that taru death increases AF2 drop rate in dynamis!