Concurring thought

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:09 pm

Teehee, dead duck. So totally off topic, but I have to share this story.

So, ages ago when I was but a wee little child of 14-15 or so in the Boy Scouts, for some reason we were helping out with some Dog Trials or whatever down in Kentucky. What these were for were to test hunting dogs.

What happened was the hunter and his dog stood on a ridge. The hunter would aim his shotgun into the air, loaded with blanks. Meanwhile, we would sit in a little hidden area so the dog couldn't see us. Then, with one of those giant rubber band launchers they fling water baloons out of, we'd launch a dead duck into the air.

At the apex of it's launch, the hunter would fire the blank. As the duck fell back to earth, the dog had to retrieve it. And let me tell you, putting a bunch of young teenage boys in a small area with dead ducks and a catapult is a bad idea. You could still make them quack if they still had air in them, just squeeze. ^.^;

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:32 pm

Don't you get diseases from pigeons

You have NO idea how filthy the normal animals we eat are. They are VERY filthy, and unsanitary.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:02 pm

You have NO idea how filthy the normal animals we eat are. They are VERY filthy, and unsanitary

Recently, there's been this trend amongst humans towards cooking things before eating them (but after killing them). Cooking fixes the disease issue (just fyi). So, if you haven't gotten the memo yet, cook your prey.

For the curious, the original copy of the memo is on the wall of a cave in France.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:11 pm

i ment filthy, when they are alive, YES cook your meat

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:12 pm

Vegetables are even worse. They're so dumb they don't even TRY to come in out of the rain. They just sit there and get all muddy.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:20 am

Ironicly, you can get the same internal parasites from plants, that you would get from eating animals (which the animals got from the plants).

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:35 am

I am Not LucasArts Or Wizards Of The Coast

Even white wolf has wrote oxymorons before

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:19 am

Okuza wrote:Vegetables are even worse. They're so dumb they don't even TRY to come in out of the rain. They just sit there and get all muddy.

Vegetables are smart enouch not to eat the **** they feed to chickens.

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:12 pm

Tinacat wrote:Ironicly, you can get the same internal parasites from plants, that you would get from eating animals (which the animals got from the plants).

That's it, I'm never eating vegitables again

Back at uni we have four colleges (halls of residence), one of which has a pond in the middle where ducks like to congrigate. Apparently someone killed and ate one of those ducks and got food poisoning from it

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:34 pm

someone killed and ate one of those ducks and got food poisoning

Betcha a quack diagnosed that one.

MittensValefor · Post by **MittensValefor** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:36 pm

Recently, a friend of the family drown in a boating accident. He was about my age. Everyone knows their days are numbered, but few want to consider that fact. The Bible says it's very wise to consider the day of death. Once your dead there's no second chances, so it's very important to make your peace with your maker before you meet your maker. "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Jesus said the only way to escape an eternity of suffering after death was through faith in Him. Here's a link to the Billy Graham website that explains how to have peace with God.

http://www.billygraham.org/SH_StepsToPeace.asp

Post by **Yukira** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:56 pm

Ooookay.... I think I'll just shut up since I do not wish to start a flamewar.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:54 pm

Mittens, Jesus also said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven" as well as "Render unto God what is God's and to Ceaser what is Ceaser's".

Billy Graham's net worth is measured in 10s of millions. He has comingled religon and Republican politics all his life.

Following Billy's teachings may not be the best path to other than a rather warm afterlife.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:27 am

the eye of a needle

"the eye of a needle", is a nickname given to the after hours entry points in and out of a town, when the town wall gates were closed for the day, not an actual eye of a needle.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:30 am

Yeah, but the point still holds -- can't fit a camel through a postern that is like 6ft high and maybe 3ft wide without seriously discomoding either camel or gate.

BTW, my favorite etymology trivia for the bible thumbers is the "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." A more literal translation of the word would be "well poisoner". At the time of the "witch" translation, a "witch" was an evil herbalist (a poisoner). So it kind of fit for a bit, but it quickly took on an anti-pagan tone and totally lost it's poisoner roots.

If you did a modern translation, that commandment would be more like "Kill polluters."

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:23 am

Tinacat wrote:
the eye of a needle
"the eye of a needle", is a nickname given to the after hours entry points in and out of a town, when the town wall gates were closed for the day, not an actual eye of a needle.

It was the smalest gate into Jerusalem. It was built to allow one person in at a time, and no camels.

A needle can have a rather big eye and still be too small for an animal that size.

In any event that was far from the only time Jesus disparaged wealth.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:40 am

Something my sensai always taught us was, "Learn to focus your inner thoughts. Become aware of your surroundings. Feel the wind as it rustles through your leaves. Or the water as it trickles over your rocks. Without peace there is no balance. Love and Hate are not opposites, but mearly pieces of a bigger puzzle that meld together. Learn to see with your heart and mind, not your eyes. Sight may be deceiving, but your mind in tune with your heart may see otherwise. Do not ever let your emotions get the better of you, for there is always another path. Think before you act, and you will always act with proper judgment. Don't be afraid to ask your fellow brother's and sister's should you feel lost. For every leaf has it's own wisdom to share, and its own abilities to help. One is never alone or lost, if One thinks to look or ask."

you'd be surprised how many students ended up in the back doing pushups for making yoda cracks

BTW... 1100th Post Dance Time!!!! *dances in the buff* There. I am teh awesome.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:06 am

KarouKaniyashia wrote:you'd be surprised how many students ended up in the back doing pushups for making yoda cracks

I'd have laughed at him, too, though probably not out loud. If he knew what he was talking about, it wouldn't be a Yoda soundtrack. Here's a really really old zen story:

Two monks are walking down the road. They're rather threadbare, but they're honest seekers. They see two other fellow monks walking ahead of them on the path. One says to the other, "Let's run ahead and join those two masters. Perhaps they will share their wisdom with us." The second replies, "How do you know they're masters?" First responds, "You can see by their stately walk, their fine robes, and the venerable grey in that left one's hair." The second snorts, "Hmph. Those aren't zen masters." First querries, "OK, oh wise one, how do you know?" The second holds up his hand and stops, "Watch."

He then cups his hands to his mouth and shouts, "Masters! Masters!" The two ahead turn around and wait. The monk that called out turns to his friend and says, "See?"

Post by **Sugami** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:34 pm

Tsybil wrote:Mittens, Jesus also said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven"

Shouldn't take the bible so literally. He's basically saying greed will send you to hell as rich men don't want to let go of their wealth so easily.

KarouKaniyashia wrote: BTW... 1100th Post Dance Time!!!! *dances in the buff* There. I am teh awesome.

Woot you go girl

*throws dollar bills at Ka-chan*

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:35 pm

Sugami wrote:
Tsybil wrote:Mittens, Jesus also said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven"
Shouldn't take the bible so literally. He's basically saying greed will send you to hell as rich men don't want to let go of their wealth so easily.

Well, yes. Your point is?

And the Reverend Dr. Graham is still worth 10s of millions of dollars. His church is worth far more.

When asked about the surest way to the kingdom of heaven, Jesus replied "Sell what you own and give it to the poor." Dr. Graham is not taking that surest way, is he?

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:54 pm

Maybe the good Reverend won't get to heaven, who knows (besides God)? My point is Jesus is pretty much warning you of one of the 7 Deadly Sins.

God is apparently "all forgiving" so doesn't that mean you'll get into heaven no matter what you do? Or is Satan less forgiving and they have some sort of contract over who gets who's soul..?

MittensValefor · Post by **MittensValefor** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:07 pm

It's encouraging to see so much thought on this important topic! ^_^ "Come now, and let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18 )

As a Christian, I'm expected to "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (1 Peter 3:15) Like Mr. Graham, I'm far from a perfect - or even half way descent - example. What I *AM* is forgiven. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9) It is because of this promise that I know I'm going to Heaven after I die even after all the bad things I've done.

If you're looking for an intellectual reason to believe what the Bible says, the book "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell will better answer your questions than I ever could. The best answer I can give is my own personal story. Sorry if it's a little wordy, but it's as to-the-point as I could get it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm a military brat raised by Christian parents. I was sent to a Christian grade school where the Gospel was explained to me in very simple terms - I'll go to Heaven If I pray "the Sinner's Prayer" to Jesus: "Thank you for dieing on the cross as a substitution for the punishment I deserve. I'm sorry for all the selfish things I've done. Please forgive me. I believe you rose from the dead three days later to prove that you are God. I believe your promise that by praying this prayer I'll live with you in Heaven after I die." Seemed pretty cut-and-dry to me when I was in kindergarten. Believe and confess and go to Heaven. Beats the heck outta the alternative.

A few years passed, and questions began to shake my simple faith. The one that troubled me most was, "What if I didn't really mean it when I prayed that prayer?" Maybe I was worried over the part in the Bible where it says some people will be surprised when they go to Hell. "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will say to them, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" I remember praying the sinner's prayer on a weekly basis to make sure I'd make it to Heaven. I didn't understand once I had given my life to Jesus, "that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

But as I got older, more and more questions surfaced to challenge my faith. By the time I got out of high school, I was ready to give up on Christianity. But on the suggestion of my pastor, I went to a Christian college. I asked the professors and scholars there for answers to these questions that troubled me so much. Their answers were lame at best.

A friend called asking for prayer for his fiance. Both her parents had died, and she was in the hospital with a serious condition - she had a tiny hole in her heart. My brother and I prayed with him. We shed quite a few tears as we poured our hearts out to God asking for healing. She died that night. I gave up. "Christians don't have the answers," I thought, "So I'm gunna quit asking."

I decided to keep going to church for my family's sake so they wouldn't worry too much about me. Of course they knew. "You don't smile any more," Mom said. I was bitter... angry... jaded. How could a good God allow so much pain?

Finally my dad showed me a book that pointed to a story in the Bible about Joseph. His older brothers hated him. They beat him, bound him, threw him down a well, and sold him into slavery. After much loyal service to his master he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison. Two fellow prisoners complained about dreams they kept having, insisting there must be some hidden meaning in them. Joseph told them their dreams were prophetic and explained their meaning. His explanation came true. News reached the king’s ears and Joseph was summoned to explain the king’s troublesome dream.

“A terrible famine is coming,” explained Joseph, “But if you store up food now, your people will survive.” Convinced, the king followed the suggestion and put Joseph in charge of distributing the food. The famine came. Eventually, Joseph’s own brothers came asking for food. But when they saw that the very brother they’d abused long ago now had the power to repay them, they were terrified. But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them.

Slowly it began to dawn on me that I didn’t even begin to have clue what God has planned. Who am I to say that God is bad if he doesn’t do what I want? I had been looking for answers in all the wrong places. But God chose to touch my heart and show me a glimmer of truth. Then he started asking me some questions. Very hard questions. “What have you done with the life I’ve given you? How have you used the opportunities I’ve given you? Who do you live your life to please?”

To this day I still have questions God hasn’t answered yet. To this day God has questions for me I’m too ashamed to answer. But at least now I know that I don’t have to have all the answers to trust him. Some day when I face Jesus in Heaven trembling with fear before the one with the power to repay me for all the wrong I’ve done and all the good I haven’t, he’ll say something like, “You intended to harm me, but I intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you.”

By the way my friend is now married with 2 kids.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:50 pm

Mittens, the single most scary theological statement of the 20th century IMHO was on a bumper sticker.

"Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

To me this says that they are allowed to **** up royaly, commit all kinds of crimes, and will still get into their heaven.

Tell me, do you think our president, who's lies have caused over 140,000 deaths from violence, is forgiven simply for being Christian?

But then again let us take a look at Dr. Graham's heaven:

Many years ago the Seattle Post Intelengencer used to run Dr, Graham's collum among the used car adds. Being crourious, an addict to the printed word, and looking for my next car, I would often read it. One day someone asked him if there would be sex in heaven. He replied that sex was of the body, while heaven was of the sprit, so of course there would be no sex there. A few months later, still trying to find that car, I hapened on a collum where someone asked if there would be golf in heaven. The reply was that golf was an innocent enjoyment, so of course there would be golf in heaven.

Golf but no sex? Not a heaven I want to be in, way to many republicans in one like that to make me comfortable.

"Now in Heaven I do dwell I do dwell,
Now in Heaven I do dwell,
And it ain't so bloody swell,
'Cause the whores are down in hell,
Goddam their eyes."

Sam Hall - traditional.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:26 pm

There are people of many, many faith's that belive that just because they are a follower, that they are saved. An uncle of mine is Southern Baptist, and he's a horrible example of humanity. He justifies beating his wife and ignoring his children with the fact that since he was baptized and accepts Jesus as his connection to God, that his sins will be forgiven.

It's not the religions we need to have problems with, it's the individuals. A great friend of mine and the wisest person I've ever known in my -entire damn life- is a devout follower of Islam. And yes, he does condem what the crazy people in the mid-east have done and are doing.

But anyways, yeah, people are fallible. People misread holy texts and flavor their sermons with the hatred of the world. Religion is the greatest crutch of the masses, but also their greates cudgel.

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:14 pm

That's a nice story, Mittens... I too was raised Christian (Roman Catholic to be precise) but unlike my brother I'm not as certain as he is that there is a God. I wish I had that kind of faith... I'd really like to believe in God or at least something after death 'cause the thought of non-existance is scary (back to the topic).
At this moment it's a lingering belief, if He is out there He either hates me or is completely ignoring me so I'm not very happy with Him.

Tsybil wrote: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

To me this says that they are allowed to **** up royaly, commit all kinds of crimes, and will still get into their heaven.

Think you're over-estimating the length of God's forgiveness. I'm sure there's a big part of the Bible that pretty much states if you do bad things you'll goto hell so I don't know how any Christian can justify that.

Dunno where but I'm pretty sure it's in the Bible that St. Peter sits at the gates to Heaven with a pair of scales. If the good outweighs the bad then you get in.

I believe if there is a God and a Heaven that he won't be biased towards people who have picked the "correct" religion and will let anyone in provided they led a good life overall.

As for the "good" Reverend I think he's just making Heaven out the way he sees it to make death, for him, less scary.

Back at uni there's a group of Bible Bashers, I dunno what "form" of Christianity they follow(ed) but one of them arrogantly told me, "if you haven't heard God then you're not a Christian."
Well my Church says differently but yeash! Some people are more "tuned into" their religion then others but doesn't make them any more of a Christian... not a very Christian attitude if you ask me.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:55 pm

Tsybil wrote: Tell me, do you think our president, who's lies have caused over 140,000 deaths from violence, is forgiven simply for being Christian?

What lies?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:16 pm

Evictus, the Muslums I know say "that is NOT my religon they are preaching". It seems the prophet disalows war against non combatants, at least women and children non combatants, not to sure of which.

Sugami, its bumper sticker theology. And it scares me.

I don't think religon is bad, just organized religon.

I find Judisam an easy religon to believe in. For one, our God is not all mercifull so we have no hard things to explain when an innocent dies. For another anyone who is a monotheist, who has lived by the code of his/her own religon, can get into Heaven. It is not a Jewish only club.

For many years I have pointed out that while we have a contract with God, when you examine it closley, it basically says: Here are the rules, now that you know them you can't **** up. The question then arises: What about all the goyim out there? Well it seems that they don't know the rules so they are allowed to **** up. I remain convinced that the reason so many of us become laywers is so they will not get taken like that again.

But seriously, we are the oldest living religon on the planet. Mighty nations have risen up against us and they are now dust under our heels. So maybe it isn't that bad a contract.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:29 pm

Wait a sec, now that I thik about it...what does all of this even have to deal with thinking about death?

More of a Religion discussion.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:09 am

Its RRREAL hard to talk about death without bringing religon into it.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:18 am

Tsybil wrote:Its RRREAL hard to talk about death without bringing religon into it.

Ya. Death just kills the subject. The end.

Now that people are mixing religion and politics into a thread on the Mithra forum, think it's OK to bring up Abortion?