Vermy or Noble's?

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:16 am

Well, here's my dilemma. I can use the Vermy now, I can use it for other mage jobs, and its going for a steady 4 Million at the moment. Noble's is WHM only and varies from 6-8 million and I would have to wait to wear it.

I dunno...when I get to the point where I am going WHM/SMN for burn parties having that extra MP per tic would be great and I would love to have either one so what do you think?

If you were me, which would you get and why?

Post by **Shirai** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:54 am

Let's take a look at the stats,

V-Cloak
Defense: 46
Level: 59
Jobs: BRD BLM BLU MNK PLD PUP RDM RNG SMN WHM
Cannot Equip Headgear
MP +10
MP +1%
Evasion -10
Adds 'Refresh' Effect

Noble's Tunic
Defense: 40
Level: 68
Jobs: WHM
MP +17
Adds 'Refresh' Effect
Cure Potency +10%
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now let's compare them,

Pros for the V-cloak:
Usable by lower level then the Noble's.
Usable by more jobs if you plan to level more jobs in the future.
Higher Defense.(Head slot rules a lot out tho.)

Cons for the V-cloak:
Cannot equip headgear, although it looks like it's giving more MP the unusable head slot begs to differ.
Evasion -10, that could hurt when fighting harder things that take a longer time to kill.
Although tanks build instant hate, whms build hate over time and at some point could overrule the tank's.

Pros for the Noble's:
Cure potency +10%. (Adds up to your light/Apollo's/Healing staff.)
Free head slot. (To use an item to give more MP/DEF)

Cons for the Noble's:
WHM onry.
Lower DEF.(Head slot rules this out)
Higher level to use.

In all comparison they are both good items,
They both add refresh and both have pretty good stats for whm.
However you should consider a couple of things before you decide which to buy.
Are you going to level more mage jobs the just WHM?
Can you afford to buy either of them?
I wouldn't get gear just for exp parties, but also think ahead if you want to do sky/HNMs later.
Although V-cloak is a good item, there are several items for several jobs that can replace this on a later stage.
(IE: Noble's for whm, Yinyang robe for SMN, Black cloak for BLM etc.)

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:49 pm

Considering WHM is your main and you don't have other jobs nearly close enough then go for the Nobles. WHM can get by easily without the Vermy but the Nobles is awesome for it.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:09 pm

Keavy wrote:Well, here's my dilemma. I can use the Vermy now, I can use it for other mage jobs, and its going for a steady 4 Million at the moment. Noble's is WHM only and varies from 6-8 million and I would have to wait to wear it.

Get the Vermy now. You can use it, you need something anyway. Why wait for the Nobles? When you can wear the Noble's, look seriously at the levels of your other jobs and decide wether or not to buy it, perhaps selling the Vermy at that time.

Remember that your income potential will increase as you level. You may end up owning both.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:44 pm

I say go for Vermilion cloak, since I can craft that for you right now ^_^

(I could craft noble's tunic, but I am 4 under the cap)

Tianshii · Post by **Tianshii** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:39 pm

I'de have to suggest you go with the Vermy.

I have both the Vermy & Nobles... I haven't sold my vermy because it's really handy when you are doing CoP or any other lvl cap thing. Also, a friend of mine bought it for me when he quit so it has sentemental vlaue as well.
You can get by on WHM without the nobles. I would wait until you can lot the cloth used to make it from either KS99 or from a Kirin fight (probably with an HNMLS).

Post by **Shirai** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:58 pm

Tianshii wrote: You can get by on WHM without the nobles. I would wait until you can lot the cloth used to make it from either KS99 or from a Kirin fight (probably with an HNMLS).

King Behemoth drops Shining cloth as well,
as far as I know the droprate on the cloth from King Behemoth is higher then Kirin.
The only problem with him is claiming him...

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:03 am

The only problem with him is claiming him...

You can steal a claim. I have seen it done (and was even in the group that did it) to gil sellers after they claimed behemoth.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:45 am

V-Cloak or Nobles? The answer is simple. Artifact Armor FTW!!!!!

Then again Im a cheap bastard with my rdm

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:48 am

AF FTW!!!!

NO, AF2+eleventyeleventhousand FTW!!!!!

Post by **Sugami** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:34 am

Tinacat wrote: You can steal a claim. I have seen it done (and was even in the group that did it) to gil sellers after they claimed behemoth.

I'd be surprised with gilsellers could kill King B, should have watched them all wipe

Post by **Shirai** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:35 pm

Although on most servers they are really stupid.

On some servers the RMT are not, and very well capable of killing Kings, Fafnir and even the CoP Wyms they sell the dropped abjurations for rediculous amounts of gil and pretty much controll every pop site.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:34 pm

Pheonixhawk wrote:V-Cloak or Nobles? The answer is simple. Artifact Armor FTW!!!!!
Then again Im a cheap bastard with my rdm

Yes but we RDMs have it good in the AF department. Our hat, body, and leg pieces are first rate EXP gear, and the boots and gloves will pass with the MP excuse. Then again, for our job the Vermy flat suks.

Now that I have the AF 2 gloves and boots I could cheap out and never have visible armor in my swap macros again, but I have way too much pride for that.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:36 am

Pheonixhawk wrote:V-Cloak or Nobles? The answer is simple. Artifact Armor FTW!!!!!
Then again Im a cheap bastard with my rdm

I have a full set of WHM AF and it is awesome and totally works for me as long as I have a Refresher I can count on. Basically I rely on a good Refresher and boosted hMP to keep my MP going.

The whole system goes to hell when I get in a NIN, 3xDD with 2H weapon, Bard puller and Me party where I have 4 Haste's and the possibility of heavy-duty curing should shadows fall.

I think Melee's are spoiled to these uber RDM's that can go for hours without kneeling. Sorry kids, but I don't have access to Refresh or Convert so I need to rest and I need Refresh, whether it comes from /SMN, Juice, Ballad, gear, or the spell.

Speaking of finances, my RL finances got better because for the third time my internet access was accidentally shut off by Comcast when my neighbors moved so for the next six months I get free internet

As for in-game, my plants died because I was unable to check in on them and some of the Xbox 360 newbie's chased me through Jeuno with pitchforks and torches because they "Followed my money-making advice and are now flat broke."

In my own defense, they only listened to half of what I said: I said diversifying in fishing, synthesis, HELM, and gardening would ensure you make money. They asked what crafts they should get into and I said FOR EXAMPLE there's consumables like Shihei and Kabobs that they could get into. On my server, both those markets are owned by "Wal-Mart" crafters so the part that they didn't listen to was that they need to research the market to see what they can make money crafting and what needed items they can farm/fish/HELM/garden/HQ craft for to lower cost.

Well, they went head-first into kabobs and Shihei after PLing to the 90's level-wise and the owners of those markets got into a price war with them and easily bankrupted them because of the PLing so yeah, they did what I told them not to do and got mad at me for it!!!!

And everyone wonders why I am such a bitch.

Oh, it'll be a while before I get the Vermy or Noble's. Apparently half the server has discovered Gardening and Fishing and the other half is looking to get in on it so I need to level my cooking and start using what I have grown.

Post by **Sugami** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:37 pm

Keavy wrote: I think Melee's are spoiled to these uber RDM's that can go for hours without kneeling.

Yup even with their limited MP pool 7mp/tick (with sanction) + Convert seems to give them an unlimited supply of MP. Elitest pricks will only want to party with RDM+BRD combo.

If you are stuggling with MP then only keep the NIN hasted, 2-handed DDs have lived without Haste before they can manage without again. WAR and MNK most likely have a fair amount of Haste already too.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:09 am

Yup even with their limited MP pool 7mp/tick (with sanction) + Convert seems to give them an unlimited supply of MP. Elitest pricks will only want to party with RDM+BRD combo.

LOL. Yup, when I build a burn party, I'll aim for rdm+brd. I'll eventually go with whm, but only if I know 'em or if there's no other healer. Most whm's don't have enough standing mp refresh for a burn.

'Course a few times I've gotten a rdm and then asked 'em to sub whm and gotten "uh, don't have it" or worse "why? blm is better!". One time I had to kick a rdm/nin that insisted on /nin. I'd rather have a whm than an unprepared or obstinately dumb rdm. WHM is the only job that really does know for sure that their role is to heal.

SMN are the ones that are really hilarious. "I'm a DD!" Yeah, sure you are -- on HNM. For XP, you're either main heal or dead weight. A good healing SMN beats a whm in a burn party, too. It's just that finding a smn who wants to do it is incredibly hard. Have one friend who can keep rock + dog + hastega on a burn party while healing. Only one I've ever seen that can do 3. Most have a hard time keeping two buffs on.

The one part that outweighs the job itself is player skill. All that stuff above assumes the people are unknowns or identical skill. I'll make a beeline for a friend or skilled player every time over the job.

Post by **Shirai** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

Okuza wrote: SMN are the ones that are really hilarious. "I'm a DD!" Yeah, sure you are -- on HNM. For XP, you're either main heal or dead weight. A good healing SMN beats a whm in a burn party, too. It's just that finding a smn who wants to do it is incredibly hard. Have one friend who can keep rock + dog + hastega on a burn party while healing. Only one I've ever seen that can do 3. Most have a hard time keeping two buffs on.

I know what you mean but simply to keep up those 3 buffs is pretty hard combined with healing since a lot of parties always seem to have at least one idiot.
As for hastega, I hardly use it because I think it's a waste of MP for a BP that only lasts 1 minute at half the haste of a whm/rdm.
I can only think of one explaination for that, your party had to be very ballanced and competent.

As for main heal only, not really.
I get to get picked as puller for Mire parties a lot.
And in traditional exp parties, (yes I still do them since I hate burn parties) I can still do semi DD/Buff/Back up heal.
Summoners aren't only healers in parties, but most of them don't want to think outside the box.

I myself dislike to main heal in parties on smn, but not because of the zOMG SMN is DD.
In exp we're too limited by our Blood pact timers/MP to be effective DD's anyway.
I also have a 75 whm job, on smn I just miss too much of the good stuff whm does get.
Higher cures/Higher buffs/Flash/Real Haste!/Stona!/Devotion!/Raise III/Reraise III/etc..

All in all I do enjoy summoner, but for exp I rather solo then main heal.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:15 am

Ya, by "main heal only" I mean the SMN fills that role, but that's not all they do. Like you mentioned, in a traditional, they cover the heals and do DD BPs. Other spots, they can pull. By main heal, I just meant that there isn't anyone else in the party covering heals. A good SMN beats whm as main heal for the same general reason as rdm: because they can do more than just heal.

Same thing on haste -- I really prefer to have a rdm to haste folks, but brd or smn works, too, when you can't get one. Very few smn ever bother with haste. It's *really* hard to keep it on a party. That's why this one smn so impressed me.

Heh, you'll like this story about a bad "DD onry" SMN. I was in dynamis and we were on the verge of wiping. I'm tanking like 3 demons (one for real and others for a bit before reslept). I need heals. Other healers are dead. The SMN has full mp. I ask him for heals. I ask again. I get slowed. I start whimpering for erase -- please erase. No heals, no erase, no haste. He then whips out his snake and does a DD BP and sits down. Still no heals, no erase. I die. Other folks try to tank, eventually we wipe.

Afterwards, I asked him "uh, why didn't you heal me?" His reply: "Eh? I'm DD."

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:41 am

I wub SMN DDing 70+ and the backup curing is handy too. Partied with a SMN (mid-60s on COR) who just wouldn't summon when forced into the WHM role. 2nd party with him I said, "Just because you're main healing doesn't mean you shouldn't summon." He then asked me what I want and I just said, "You're the SMN, do what you want." pretty much

poor thing he still didn't really make use of his BPs.

That stupid SMN not tossing out a heal is like a RDM saying "I'm an enfeebler," and not backup curing or a WAR/NIN saying "I'm a DD," and not backup tanking. You have the MP and the means, use them!

Also never EVER invite a RDM/NIN to an exp party. They clearly don't know what they're doing and you'd just be better off without them or not even wasting time on that party.
Remember partying with one a while back, was wearing a Brigadine, Walkure Mask, DD gear basically and eventually I just asked him. "Why are you wearing DD gear?" To which he says, "to do more damage." ... just explains it all really.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:52 pm

The thing is, on my server, RDM's and Bard's are a rarity so parties are forced to take WHM/COR usually instead of the preferred RDM/Bard for healing and support and of course, they play it like a RDM/Bard party.

That is my complaint. I don't mind not having Refresh and I can live without it but don't get mad at me because I need to rest. I know the COR is busy building TP and/or pulling and therefore can't always get me my Healer's Roll and Evoker's Roll on time but seriously, will yelling at me get my MP to recover any faster?

To be honest, the parties that understand that I am a WHM and that I need to rest every now and again are the ones that I love. They will either pull weaker prey to maintain the chain while I rest or they will time my healing periods with the respawns. In all honesty, I see no difference in the level of experience.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:58 pm

Player: Hey need a party?
Me: Thanks for the offer but ill have to pass.
Player: Please we need you.
Me: Sorry I just woke up, dont feel like partying right off the bat.
Player: Please, ill give you 1 mil gil.
Me: O_o
Player: lol
Me: Sorry dude its to early, like 5am.
Player: We need you, we have a blm, pld, drk, smn and nin. We just need you.
Me: Sorry dude, you can get a whm you should be fine.
Player: We need a refresher.
Me: you dont NEED any refresher. Youll just have slower chains. Besides you can get a bard or a corsair.
Player: Theres none searching and your the only rdm.
Me:...
Player: Sooo you gonna come?
Me: Sorry dude, my mind is made.
Player: awww okay.

(Oh and as a side note, he diddnt really have 1 mil. Sent me a tell about it later. lol)

You see I believe that melee classes are just outright spoiled nowadays. They dont wanna stop and wait on the mages. In fact they don't care about the mages at all. Lets stick the rdm with a bard and leave him. And they think nothing more of us. Too often do I get into a party where I have to main heal, refresh 5+ people, and keep haste on the melee. Yeah I can do it, but it is alot more stressful of a party. One time our party was close to wiping, and I needed to conver to keep everyone alive. I knew I needed to get a heal instantly otherwise the mob would of turned on me (I had hate from nuking) I asked the whm to give me a cure spell with the last of his mana so I could convert. So as soon as I do that I start spamming Cure IV on everyone. Obviously I caught a bag of instant hate, but because the whm used his last bit of mana to save me, I didnt die and we didnt wipe. My party however got pissed that I asked the whm to heal me. Normally I never do so, but it was to save the party. I mean honestly refresh is fast but not that fast. And nobody died either. Yeah I got smacked up, but nobody died... *sigh*

Post by **Sugami** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:08 pm

Keavy wrote:The thing is, on my server, RDM's and Bard's are a rarity so parties are forced to take WHM/COR usually instead of the preferred RDM/Bard for healing and support and of course, they play it like a RDM/Bard party.

Yeah the ignorance grows. People really don't have a clue how crap Evoker's Roll is without a SMN, 7/11 "rolls" (excluding 12+ as busts) result in 1mp/tick, 2/11 has 2mp/tick, 1/11 has 3mp/tick and 1/11 has 4mp/tick.

Of course depending on the COR some might take a risk for a bigger reward and end up busting occasionally, then you're without any kind of Refresh for about a minute.

Healer's Roll makes up for it if you get to heal enough but in that kind of setup I doubt you get more than 5 seconds healing at a time.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:35 am

I love mages, even without a refresher. I mean, hell, it's usually better then soloing. ^.^ But you're right, melee are getting spoiled. But it's not just them, I think it's endgame people in general.

They are in (or heard of) some fantastic party and they think every pt after that has to match it in exp/hr.

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:27 pm

Really the success of a good merit party is down to your camp in the end. Over-crowded you could have the best uber pimped out party in the world but still get weak exp. Things are easy to kill you just need a fast puller and enough MP to keep you going and you're dancing, pretty much.

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:18 pm

I think it is the mages that are spoiled.

Gabryel · Post by **Gabryel** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:06 pm

Lol you can argue for both sides and it'll all be true, the matter of the fact is: most players nowadays are spoiled, mage or melee. Doesn't really matter which role your in, every leader I've played with has a concrete part for you to play in every party, which is total bull. People get pissy when players try to do something unique or "outside the box" with thier job, and frankly, it sickens me. As a veteran of both sides of the coin, so to speak, I sympathise with anyone (which i assume is most of you) who have been pressured to be your assigned "role".

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:02 pm

RDM / BST FTW!!! eh... maybe not.

I think thats one of the Unique things about guild wars, and WoW. Either you dont have a sub job, or you do, and Nobody cares what you are, or what you subbed. They dont expect mages to only do one thing. If your doing something different and its working, then go with it. In GW im a Ranger / Elementalist. People say its a crap combo, but I love it. And people dont complain either, we just go with it....

Still overall I say im happy finding two more MMORPG's to play. In all honesty all I see on FFXI now are JP's. I could shout in Jeuno all day, and not get a single response from anyone... But it wasnt like that at first when i started playing. In fact it was the other way around. People dont even shout out for help killing avatars, or help on missions, or Garrisons anymore. I just log on, and sit there going... wow this is ... fun.

I try to join linkshells, yet somehow the ones im in are so small its pointless. And yet I still play. Im just hoping against all hope its all because of the chocobo raising...

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:05 pm

people will call you an F'ing retard if you are spected differently in WoW. I hear like it on a daily basis.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:57 pm

I love being whatever job I am playing as and am willing to fulfill my role as needed as long as the party I am with understands that I have my limits.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:50 am

Tinacat wrote:people will call you an F'ing retard if you are spected differently in WoW. I hear like it on a daily basis.

True. But why tell them how your specced? They cant see how much dmg your doing or if your critting or anything. Don't wanna get yelled at, then don't tell them. Technically you can do the same thing in FFXI. Get a party invite, then go /anon and change subs before you get there. Not the wisest thing to do but still possible.

MithraPride

Vermy or Noble's?

Vermy or Noble's?

Re: Vermy or Noble's?