Concurring thought

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:33 pm

Recently for some odd reason, I keep thinking about death lately. You know how at one point in time everyone will die. But few rarely sit down and think about it. I mean the thought of no longer existing is scary. I took a second and imagined being out of the world. Kept thinking about nothing and yet something at the same time. Im sure that doesnt make any sense to some, but it does to me. Im just curious has anyone ever had the same thought. Then again, I may just slowly be losing my mind. meh.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:21 am

Yes non existence is scary, that's why people invented religon.

Few Americans think about dying or even ageing. I bet Iraquis think about dying a lot lately.

"Don't take life seriously, you will never get out of it alive"

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:45 am

Me? Meh, I'm Buddist, and knock me, I dont care, because I believe in freedom of speech, but I believe in Re-Incarnation. My personal belief, But do I feel like I could go suddenly, Yes.

To Quote Wither (http://www.wither.cc) "How far we fell and where
Isn't as important as where we came from"

Personally, We all go at some point, and maybe I just plain dont really care how or when. but where and how.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:04 pm

Death is a blessing. If you want scary, contemplate immortality. Brings a whole new meaning to "Wherever you go, there you are."

Post by **Sugami** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:11 pm

I wouldn't mind being immortal provided I stay youthful (like mid-30s)

Death is too depressing and scary, I try not to think about it...

Post by **Yukira** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:25 pm

I wouldn't mind living for an extremely long time either, although I would probably like to die eventually. Think of all the things you could learn and experience in a century, or a millennia for that matter!

mirabem · Post by **mirabem** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:32 pm

Yukira wrote:I wouldn't mind living for an extremely long time either, although I would probably like to die eventually. Think of all the things you could learn and experience in a century, or a millennia for that matter!

I'd like to believe there's more to it than just ceasing to exist. All that energy has to go somewhere. I don't nescesarily believe in a "heaven" or "afterlife", but I do believe that there's more to it than just simply living and then dying.

my 0.02$

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:36 pm

There is something more, You don't end up in an "afterlife". You End Up In MarkovBot's Bed *rimshot*

Post by **Yukira** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:57 pm

:D:D

Anyway, I don't believe in 'ceasing to exist' either. For all my life the theory of reincarnation has just somehow felt 'right' to me, although not in the form of any religion, it just seems the most natural way.

In karma, I believe half-heartedly: I want to believe and a part of me does that whatever happens in this life, is earned during the lives before. Still, somehow the idea just seems....hmmm...like I just can't understand it yet.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:40 pm

Certain Jewish sects believe in reincarnation also. But it isn't endless reincarnation as in most religons that believe in it. There are 512 mitzvahs, or good deeds. In this belief system you can't progress to heaven till you have done all of them.

You do it over and over and over again till you get it right.

I see strong theological similarities to the Catholic purgutary here.

Karou, there are more varieties of Buddists out there than Baptists and some are more philosophies than religons. Which one do you follow, if I may ask? I studdied Zen Buddisim for a while when I was a teen aged beatnick, one that is mostly philosophy.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:49 pm

Zen

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:01 pm

When you are a teen, action without thought is easy, but it isn't the same thing at all.

I wanted to learn to shut that inner dialog off, my sensi called it "silencing the monkey". Never got that down though. I also wanted to play Go without concious thought. Way hard, requires a lot of study of Go first.

I did discover that my archery was always close to Zen archery, but as I was a New York City teen aged beatnick, I had no opportunity to practice archery when I was actively studying Zen.

Sitting zazen (spelling?) was always the hardest thing for me.

Keavy · Post by **Keavy** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:09 am

We all think about death from time to time.

I, personally believe that ghosts are the souls of people who don't know they're dead, are stuck here because of some unfinished business, or refuse to leave for some reason.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:35 am

What I do for inner balance is Kickboxing and Tang Soo Do, 2 martial arts that don't teach you to harm but for balance. The other thing is, everyone knows I have lightsaber stunt blades and custom hilts i built, Why not practice the zen of sword display? I could go on, but some of my peaceful zen techniques are best saved for another post.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:42 am

I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe in the paranormal. Souls are merely chemical interactions in the brain and do not float above your body, or zip up into an aerial paradise. (So sue me, I'm a kill joy.)

Man devised religion in all it's form's as a crutch. For those of you who are deeply spiritual/religious, you best emphasize my point. You cannot concive of a world where when you die, your 'essence' dissapears forever, what you were no longer shall exist and your mortal shell is food for worms. It's too depressing. So, the crutch of spirituality was 'invented' as reasoning for what happens after death.

I say 'invented' because religion started out as a few cavemen trying to figure out what exactly was lightning, stars, the sun, rain clouds, and everything else. But enough of my silly aetheistic prattle.

If I can bring up one question about reincarnation, something about it does not make sense to me. Either A, there is an infinate number of souls. Or B, there is a finite number of souls.

Reincarnation I'd think is strongly against A, but let's say both reincarnation and A exist. That means that while reincarnation will happen to these souls, what about the souls who have not yet recieved a body? Would you have to wait behind them in the Astral Waiting List?

But if B were true, then what happens when each soul reaches it's final destination. Nirvana or something. Will there be no more babies born? Or will they be soul-less babies? But if over the course of countless thousands and thousands of years souls reach their end point....would new souls have to be created so that Humanity as a race continues? And if that is the case, then it turns from B to A, infinte souls.

So my point is, if reincarnation is true, wouldn't we one day run out of souls? I don't mean to offend anyone, just....curious.

Post by **Sugami** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:57 am

KarouKaniyashia wrote:What I do for inner balance is Kickboxing and Tang Soo Do, 2 martial arts that don't teach you to harm but for balance.

Kickboxing is more a sport than a martial art

Evicticus wrote:If I can bring up one question about reincarnation, something about it does not make sense to me. Either A, there is an infinate number of souls. Or B, there is a finite number of souls.

How about secret option C: Finate souls that are infinitely growing in number?

Much like the universe; at any point in time the universe has a finite size however over time it is infinitely expanding (until the end of the world).

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:57 pm

Sugami wrote:
KarouKaniyashia wrote:What I do for inner balance is Kickboxing and Tang Soo Do, 2 martial arts that don't teach you to harm but for balance.
Kickboxing is more a sport than a martial art

Most anything active or passive can be practiced as a martial art, and anything passive or active can be done in the Zen tradition. For instance the practices of Zen archery can be easily translated into firearms, and the game of Go is considered a martial art in Japan.

It is the dicipline, both mental and physical, that turns learning a sport into an art.

KarouKaniyashia wrote:The other thing is, everyone knows I have lightsaber stunt blades and custom hilts i built, Why not practice the zen of sword display?

Zen sword with Lightsabers. I love it. Speilberg would be proud of you young Jedi. There is much of the martial arts and Zen both in the Jedi practice.

Eviticus wrote:Souls are merely chemical interactions in the brain....

religion started out as a few cavemen trying to figure out what exactly was lightning, stars, the sun, rain clouds, and everything else....

As a firm believer in, and a fan of science, I agree with you. As a Jew and believer in God I still agree with you. Nothing I have learned in cosmoligy, anthropoligy, chemistry, phisioligy, or any other field of science has yet to disagree with the Torah (Old Testament to all you Christians out there). What I have learned in history and comparative religon is that organized religon is a hoax, a sham, and a means of controll.

To any regular atendees to a church, temple, or mosque out there: the first time your preacher, rabbi, or imman says "God told me to tell you...." RUN, do not walk to another place of worship, or better yet, read your holy writings for your own damn self.

As to the number of souls question, I like Sugami's option C. It fits all beliefs, wether they include reincarnation or not.

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:28 am

Allow me to quote the code of the Dark Brotherhood. (okay so we're nuetral and follow the lightside code, which is modified based off information from KOTOR)

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no chaos; there is harmony.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

There are arguably 3 types of Jedi, Light, Dark, And Sith. A lot of information has been expanded on, This may seem oftopic, but I get this all the time. Dark and Sith are seperate. We Dark Jedi Walk a nuetral line. Neither Light Or Dark. Only Gray. We Do Not follow Light Or Sith.

There I said It.

Pheonixhawk · Post by **Pheonixhawk** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:04 am

It's not so much about the inner balance as it is the constant curiosity of death. Is it fear? nah. I can't fear something that is unavoidable.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:04 am

Sugami wrote:How about secret option C: Finate souls that are infinitely growing in number?

Much like the universe; at any point in time the universe has a finite size however over time it is infinitely expanding (until the end of the world).

What is the difference between a finite amount of souls growing over an infinite period of time, and an infinite amount of souls over the same time? If there will always be new ones, the two are indistinguishable.

And a fear of death is, I think, reasonable. Just because it will happen doesn't mean it has to happen just yet. I'm a relatively healthy 20 year old, and I think I fear death more now then I would 30-40 years from now.

Also, I like how you put it, Tsybil. Yes, I beleive that Science does not preclude Religion(only that I just lack faith in Religion, that's all.). Science tells us, with as much certainty as it can muster, the definition of the universe and all things in it. You can say, "What happened before?" and Science will say "The Big Bang", or some other theory. But if you keep asking that question, you will go farther then science...to an area only Religion can answer.

Also, along the same vein, I believe in Evolution. But once again that does not preclude Yaweh/Allah/God. It's very possible since God apparently knows all existance through-out time, that he set up the Rube Goldberg device known as Existence to create us as we are now through Evolution. Just because things evolved as we did, that we came from lesser life forms, doesn't mean there isn't a devine inspiration.

And no, I think 'Intelligent Design' is silly. Intelligent Design pretends to have little to do with religion, it's being too sneaky for it's own good in my opinion.

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:46 am

G.W. Bush is proof against Intelligent Design. No Intelligent Designer would ever design that. Some say he is proof against evoloution as well.

Intelligent Design is just Creationism in real poor drag. A judge said so after looking at the rough draft of "On Pandas and People" the I. D. manifesto.. errr... textbook. The roughs had Creator everywhere the book had Intelligent Designer.

The big bang looks a lot like Fiat Lux to me. And my God can put just the right spin on that cosmic cue ball, stand back, and watch His plan unfold. The Fundamentalist's God is a whimp who has to keep meddeling with a piss poor product to get it to work.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 am

religion started out as a few cavemen trying to figure out what exactly was lightning, stars, the sun, rain clouds, and everything else....

One of my favorite quotes from the book of genesis is "And God made the stars, too." I can just see the Rabbi instructing kids in creationism and some brat just won't shut up and keeps asking "So, Mr. Rabbi, who made the stars!?" Rabbi finally smacks him and says "God made the stars, too. Now shuttup and go do your chores."

God gets the blame when people are too frightened to say "I don't know."

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:51 am

God made the micro-meteor showers that zip by like bullets and turn space crafts into swiss cheese, releasing all it's cargo....and passengers.... God made the ultra-powerful radiation from the sun that will cook anythink that's not shielded from it. God made the "World-Killer" meteor's that may one day shoud this planet in a blanket of ash and rock, killing everything in it. God made poor Sally born without her leg's and a disfigured vocal cord.

Intelligent Design?

Post by **Sugami** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:22 pm

Eviticus wrote:What is the difference between a finite amount of souls growing over an infinite period of time, and an infinite amount of souls over the same time? If there will always be new ones, the two are indistinguishable.

Ugh souls aren't infinite as such I can't explain it any better than my space example. Space is not infinite, it is infinitely growing (until the Big Crunch or whatever). There's a difference between having unlimited supply at any period in time and having the supply infinitely growing.

KarouKaniyashia wrote: There are arguably 3 types of Jedi, Light, Dark, And Sith. A lot of information has been expanded on, This may seem oftopic, but I get this all the time. Dark and Sith are seperate. We Dark Jedi Walk a nuetral line. Neither Light Or Dark. Only Gray. We Do Not follow Light Or Sith.

Isn't that; Light, Grey and Dark then? From what I understand the Sith embrace the Dark Side where the Jedi embrace the Light Side, each seem to have their own philosophy.
Someone who doesn't follow either hasn't declaired their illegance to either side and is still undecided...
Jedi Knight and Jedi Accademy you choose your alliance to one side and you'll be unable to use powers of the other side.
KOTOR (I & II) you're changing constantly, can be influenced by either side greatly or only by a little and can remain "neutral" until they end or near the end and you're forced into choosing allegance if you haven't already.

Tsybil wrote: G.W. Bush is proof against Intelligent Design. No Intelligent Designer would ever design that. Some say he is proof against evoloution as well.

We can diss him all we like but he was still smart enough to get into office, twice

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:42 pm

Yes that's as close as you've gotten over anyone. Several source book manuals have noted that "Dark" Jedi are in fact gray and that calling them dark is nothing more then a name sake, but they are not sith. I choose Dark Jedi becuase not only is it more complicated for a padawan to try and learn (as opposed to learning pure light or pure dark, but learning a mix of both) it puts a lot less stress on lightsaber combat. Basically I can use an aggressive Lightsaber Form without gaining darkside points (Well assuming I didnt provoke the attack) for my combat style

Tinacat · Post by **Tinacat** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:32 pm

I think about death alot. Everyday, I belive I am going to die, and there is not a tomarrow ._.

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:55 am

How happy.

Okuza · Post by **Okuza** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:42 am

I think about death alot.

I wonder how much of this is prompted by recently RL experience. For instance, I recall vividly the time some friends gave my brother some pigeons for breakfast. The birds were fluttering around in the box and coo'ing all night right outside the window. In the morning, we had roast pigeon salad. It was the most delicious bird I'd ever had.

Until that time, I'd never really had much of a visceral connection between living things and food. Food came in boxes and frozen packages. Not any more. To this day, I still salivate when I look at a live pigeon. How many of you have looked at a living animal (something that is looking back at you) and thought, "I bet you taste really good."

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:10 am

My brother had rabbits for a science project once. Having an animal for little reason wasn't unusual in my house, my mother was an animal nut. Anyways, we had rabbits. Then we mistook genders and had more rabbits. I was a small child, rabbits were cute and fluffy, fun to play with. Then for some reason we sold some of the rabbits to family freinds for some kind of stew. My dad butchered two of them in the back yard on a tree. I sat inside, on a couch, staring at a table...just trying not to look. Later on, I saw a patch of blood on the tree.

I can't deal very well with the whole catching prey, killing, cleaning, cooking, eating routine for most things. Fish I can deal with, but not bunnies or anything else 'pet' like. I'm in no ways a vegetarian either. <3 Meat. Just don't butcher it infront of me.

Post by **Sugami** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:48 am

KarouKaniyashia wrote:Several source book manuals have noted that "Dark" Jedi are in fact gray and that calling them dark is nothing more then a name sake, but they are not sith.

Isn't the term "Dark Jedi" by definition an xymoron?

Cool thing about KOTOR II is your appearance changes when you lean more and more towards the dark side, also the dark side choices are very fun

Okuza wrote: For instance, I recall vividly the time some friends gave my brother some pigeons for breakfast. The birds were fluttering around in the box and coo'ing all night right outside the window. In the morning, we had roast pigeon salad. It was the most delicious bird I'd ever had.

Don't you get diseases from pigeons

Eviticus wrote: I can't deal very well with the whole catching prey, killing, cleaning, cooking, eating routine for most things. Fish I can deal with, but not bunnies or anything else 'pet' like. I'm in no ways a vegetarian either. <3 Meat. Just don't butcher it infront of me.

Last year I visited my ex (now ex-friend too) at her uni in Manchester. Her Chinese friend bought a whole duck from a Chinese store and cooked it for us. Tasted really good but I just couldn't look at the carcass... the shop sold the whole duck, literally head and all with the eyeballs still there... looked rather grim