Is this a hinderance?

[Cyndari]

I am a WHM56/BLM21 who has 580 mp. I dont have Erase or Raise2 yet. I get invites to parties, but there are some ppl who complain because of my gimp subjob or lack of the aforementioned spells. I personally do not care because my goal is to get WHM60 before I do anything else. I have enough mp to keep the pty healed(as long as the pty doesnt do anything stupid)and I have all the basic spells needed, so how do you guys feel about whms that are lacking in spells or subjobs?

[Kintrra]

Well, in all honesty, I kinda don't really approve of gimped subs. I know I'm not alone in that aspect either. The no Erase can be dealt with, as can the lack of Raise 2. Especially since not all mages have access to a group of people to do Worm's Turn. But I know I make sure I've always got subs up to snuff. If it means I have to put aside my main for a little while to gain a level or two for it, so be it. That's just me tho. I realize not everyone is gonna do that. A WHM's job is to keep the pt healed, but I'll be honest when I say the sub does matter some. Unless I know the mage and have seen them in action, I'm probably gonna go for the WHM that has their sub up to snuff.

It depends on how gimped the sub is I might add. If it's one or two levels, pffft, no big deal. But if it's below it's available level by like 4 or more, ehhh, yeah, I get a little concerned. =\

EDIT: Why not sub your SMN? That's a viable deal for a WHM, more MP, auto-refresh. So what if you don't have the BLM spells? Grab a warp scroll and you're fine. If they want out quick, there's always Tele-whereever. ^^

[sakono]

when i was lvling whm i tryed to keep my sub up to par which lead me to lvling blm up to 46 now and whm still at 31.... but the only time i've had a gimp sub is when i lvl thf which is 22 and my sup was war which is 7... but i still did good job and on some ocasions tanked which is not a good thing for a thf but it worked when i had to

[Cyndari]

Well SMN would work too, but the story behind this is I have a friend who is a DRG60 and is currently lvling other jobs so I can catch up, but they are not going to wait forever for me to get WHM60/whatever30. We had agreed that i would drop everything get WHM to 60.

As you have stated though, luckily I have a few ppl that i have partied with that dont mind the gimp so long as I keep the heals fresh and the tank hasted^^

[JediKitsune]

Quit being lazy and level your subjob and get your spells. By 50, Erase is pretty much a 'basic spell'. If your NIN tank gets an Evasion down debuff or something, I can assure you he'll probably be f*cked proper.

You're lucky you're a WHM and in high demand and not a MNK or something who NEEDS optimal equipment/subjob to get an invite.

Sure, I could probably get away with not buying a Jujitsu Gi at 40MNK, but I'm basically gimped. If I cared though, I'd shill out the 1.5 million it costs... which I'm going to do whether it kills me or not.

[Darkmattre]

Nin tanks really need erase for some of the mobs you'll be fighting. Evasion down is really bad for blink tanking...and only erase gets rid of it.

If you're trying to catch a static, I'm sure they'd probably like a properly leveled sub as well. Just take one day to level blm up and nothing else. I'd bet in that one day you could get 30-32.

[Eviticus]

Raise II is a matter of convienence. I mean, if I die, I'm gonna kick myself anyways, I'm gonna have to exp party to get that exp back anyways. And in the end, yes getting a Raise II over a Raise I helps, but I don't see it as a huge problem.

Erase is a god-send in some cases. Level up your Whm, but keep an eye out for an oppertunity to go on the BCNM to get it. Maybe even try to organize a party for it while lfp. (Ok, you're a whm, so you'll probably spend 5 minutes at most lfp, but you know.)

And about a properly leveled sub? .....I never put myself in a position where I have an underleveled sub, except when soloing or helping others with quests. (No difference really between 50Drg/21Blm and 50Drg/25Blm. My rse panties give me just over 100 mp, so I can cast warp. Poison gives me 5mp Healing Breaths. I'm set.)

Since you're kinda pressed for time, to get 60 to party with your friend, it's debatable in my opinion. Then again, when you get to 60, you're still gonna have the problem of an under leveled sub pestering you. You're gonna need to do it eventually.

[sakono]

i need warp II..... it seems every one knows i don't have it and i sit in jueno as a 46blm lfp....it sucks but i don't have 400k to shell out for the spell and now have to figgure out how to get fame in windy for the damn quest..

i personaly don't think wapr II is that importent but i guess once you hit 40 no one wnats to get back home the way they use too.... which is a pain in the ass i think. i do every thing else a blm does just fine but no warp II and its you suck so we're not going to invite you, i don't care how good you are no warp II means you a dumb ass and suck noob......


i don't get it..really don't

[Nivez]

when i leveled whm for the first time, i did not have erase till nearly level 65, i wouldnt recommend doing that though, i see it as a necessity (if you have the money) and if you dont, then get @ 60. As for r2 though... to be honest, if a 56 whm doesnt have R2, i dont bother with them, even if they are the only whm seeking. the difference between r1 and r2 @ 56 is a half an hour of work, at 75 its an hour+ of exp, it really is a necessity. as for gimped sub, your fine till 58, @58, stop and level blm, between your current level and 58 you get nothing useful, but @ 58 youl have the ability to cast escape. which can be a godsend.

As for /Smn vs /Blm. i ran /blm to 60, /smn to 75, and stayed /smn for over a year, then recently ive gone back to /blm. to be honest, i believe /blm is better in most situations including a standard XP party, for a few reasons.
Firstly Conserve MP >>>>>> Auto-Refresh, i cannot stress this enough, you dont see conserve MP half the time, but believe me its there and working!, 90% of the time i have more MP to use as a whm/blm than whm/smn, just because conserve MP is that godlike.
secondly, the spells. the really only useful spells youl have will be bio2, warp, escape, and sleepga, but they are very useful when you need them.
lastly, though you get more MP with /smn (and alot more if you use magicians earring) the difference generally doesnt make up for the loss of conserve MP. i can stress it enough how importnat that ability is. i dont even consider using anything but /blm on rdm simply because of conserve MP. it really is the best static mage ability in the game.

[Ambrey]

An under lvl'ed sj is one of my biggest pet peeves in this game. It not only hinders your own abilities but it also hinders the people around you especially in parties. Having a properlly lvl'ed sj is a great thing, not only makes you have more abilities, hp/mp and other things, also makes you look like your not quite such a n00b.

As for spells, some mages lack spells due to the high cost, which is understandable. But there comes a time when not having certain spells will do nothing more than hinder the party and yourself from advancing. Sure you can go a lvl or two without the almighty Erase or some other spell but get off ur duff, take a break from your main job, go lvl your subjob or go farm and buy whatever spell you are lacking and then get back in the game. Don't be a n00b.

[Darkmattre]

Conserve MP is to mages what Subtle blow is to melee.

People don't realize how awesome subtle blow is. But lately I've been letting some ppl come along for some of my solo outings. Mobs that I've fought possibly hundreds of times w/out issue, suddenly are giving me trouble. I realized that the other guy with me (even one person w/out subtle blow makes a big difference) was the reason. The mobs were using so many more TP moves than ever before.

And yes, I love my conserve mp as either blm or /blm. I would like to see more gear with "enhances conserve mp" that whm can wear. You get "enhances fast cast" for non-rdm jobs... gimme "enhance conserve mp" for non-blms.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Personally I will not be seen in public with an underleveled sub. Picked up the habit due to being a RDM, every spell in my usual /BLM is usefull. But for a WHM.... I hardly ever use Black spells as WHM wether I /BLM or /RDM.

Yes WHMs and RDMs can get away with a LOT including severly underleveled subs. A RDM friend used to stay permanantly /anon and build his own parties so people would not see that he was something like RDM 40something / WHM mid teens.

Erase is another story. You can go to places with mobs who don't have things to erase, but without that spell you are limited in your effectivness. GET ERASE. I was given Tivia's account, WHM 46 without Erase. I will not play her untill she has it. I did not level my own WHM past 31 till I owned it. Still undecided about a WHM without R II, but I have a much more cavalier attitude about leveling and EXP loss than most. If I get to that level as WHM, I WILL own the spell.

This kitty has pride.

[Jae]

not having erase is ok.. its hard to erase member everytime when there battle going on... wasting mp on every round.. not really worth it much...

but... having gimp subjob... having not raiseII.. not acceptable... even though u only taking it up to lv60...
are you telling me in otherside... if i had PLD60/WAR5 xping with u.. cause i only wanted to taking it up to lv75... are you gonna be happy to xp with me?

its about party manner.. get ready as much as you can... partying together.. xping together.. those few more lvled gimped sub will make ur life easier.. not only that make u xp faster

[ScarlettPheonix]

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh.

Is not having Erase, RII and a badly underleveled subjob at lvl 56 a hinderance?

Yes, most definetly yes.

You're really only hurting yourself. You seem to have a bit of tunnel vision, focused only on the level/exp grind and not on the other aspects of being a mage. That includes having the appropriate spells and properly leveled subjob.

I'm sure that you've noticed that the mobs you exp on have more AoE enfeeb attacks than the ones we exp'd on at lvl 20 did. Erase is a necessity for parties. Get it. Even if the only one you EVER erase is the tank, they will love you for using it. Erase is expected of WHMs, just like having elemental staves, silent oil, echo drops, and food is also expected by parties as normal gear for experience sessions.

It'd be like me not having Refresh at level 56.

Raise II is a time-saver for parties. No one likes having to waste time. Parties should be generally more accepting of this though. Still needed, get it.

Go march yourself to your MH, change jobs and go level BLM. Or SMN. Or hell, go level RDM. Get something leveled. You haven't just been neglecting you sub for a few levels. You've had a underleveled subjob since level freakin' 44.

Have you been trying to catch up to your friend since lvl 42?

My main is RDM, I HATE leveling WHM and have the outmost respect for good players who enjoy the job and are good at it. There is more to being a WHM than healing, casting protect and hasting the tank, I know. If there wasn't then I'd be getting a lot more party invites then I already do.

I don't level with WHMs very often anymore. I don't think I've partied with a WHM more than 2x since lvl 50. Most parties will choose to have a RDM/BRD pair, RDM/BLM pair, RDM/SMN pair or a RDM by themselves if theres no WHM available. Or no competent WHM available.

>>Sidenote: The reason why I say parties should be more accepting of not having RII is because many parties are willing to accept any of the above main healing combinations when there's no WHM looking for parties.

The first thing a party leader sees when he searches is the Job and Sub-job levels. First impressions mean a lot in that case. I've known players who will leave a party if any player has an under leveled sub-job. Especially the healer.

I've seen discussions/complaints from some WHMs that starting around lvl 40 on up they were facing longer wait times for parties than they had before. RDMs and SMNs were no longer a distant 2nd choice to parties as a healer. In some cases RDMs were even preferred over WHMs.

And oh, the complaints were bitter.

I'm not saying that RDM/SMN/BRD/DGN/BLM/whatever is a better choice that WHM as a main healer. I'll never have Regen II, RII, RIII or Cure V (A thousand curses on your heads SE!!!) or any of the higher healing 'ga or 'na spells. All the things that make you a WHM and the best choice as healer. IF you are fully leveled and equipped for your party role.

Your role however, can be filled pretty well by other jobs now. Competition is stiff and putting your best foot forward by having a properly leveled sub-job is the least you can do.

[Cyndari]

Well I guess I can see the point that you guys are making, though it really disappoints me. Cause it what it comes down to is that i would need a static to move on. The erase spell I just need to get a BCNM pt cause I now have the seals. My not having R2 is kinda a valid point but I am torn because I can fully appreciate the signifigance of R2 but part of me wants say "Dammit you should be happy to be getting a raise" I dunno I guess its part of the job.... But even with farming and the such 300k for me is not easy to come by.... It would take at least a week to get that.

EDIT: See Scarlett you must have posted as I writing this.....that wasnt harsh it was brutal In a way you are right though because as a WHM i would expect a RDM or BRD to have refresh, so I guess the same could be expected of me.

[Tivia]

My how the game has changed since I played,

Erase was not only unnecessary but mostly useless until 50 last I played actively.

[Kintrra]

My how the game has changed since I played,

Erase was not only unnecessary but mostly useless until 50 last I played actively.

o.O Where were you leveling? Yikes. As an all out tank I can appreciate Erase coming from WHMs. Seeing as it gets rid of Bio, Dia, and quite a few other little side-effects that can keep a tank from being able to heal between fights. And pre-55 (In other words, before I needed to keep TP for Spirits Within) I dropped, rested, and healed my MP between every fight. If I couldn't do that, chances were, I was gonna run out of MP very quickly. Even with Refresh going a PLD still needs a little bit of time to heal up, and we don't get that if we're stuck standing around cuz Bio or Dia won't let us heal.

[Sheala]

You were getting Bio, Dia, and other status effects from the beastmen mages Kintrra? It sounds like your mages were not using silence like they were suppose to. SOME versions of slow can be over written by the white mage haste spell. Damage over time spells like poison or bio can also be countered by milk drinks or a regen spells. Erase come in handy for those effects you can not counter any other way. The web effect from spiders (slow) or the defense/attack/etc. down aliments come to mind. Erase is a good spell if you can afford it. I purchased my for my taru white mage after six months of farming. It only cost me 750,000 gil. In the mean time I leveled his sub up to forty so I could leave it alone for ever. (no such luck. ) The point of this story is to be creative and yes mage spells can be expensive!!!

Addressing the OP, please, Please, PLEASE level up your black mage subjob Cyndari for both you and your static party. You are denying yourself the extra mana, hit points, and status increases from the missing subjob levels. What happens when you reach level 60 white mage and perform less than your full potential for the party? If leveling your subjob is truely such a pain, maybe your friend can power level you to 37 and you could be done with it. (I don't believe I just said that. )

One thing that has not been discussed yet is under leveled equipment. For mages the level and defense matter less than the bonuses items and armor gives. For us melee types, armor and weapons are more important :!: It is not necessary to have the most recent, top of the line, OMFG WHAT IS THAT? armor and weapons. It will not do to have equipment that is ten or more levels below your current level. Normal armor and items your level to five levels lower will help the party out nicely. You will hit for more and take less damage from the monsters. This goes for both tanks, damage dealers, and rangers/pseudo-rangers. If we are asking the mages to shell out huge amount of money for spells and items, we should be doing what we can to keep up our end of the party

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

My how the game has changed since I played,

Erase was not only unnecessary but mostly useless until 50 last I played actively.

I don't use it every party, but in the parties where I do use it, I get yelled at if I miss the debuff on the tank.

NIN tanks and bats take a LOT of Erasing. But at 18MPs, the rest of the party can live with Evasion Down. Attack down... you spam Erase.

[Losfuin]

To draw a comparison to wanting to get WHM to 60: I want to be an awesome guitar player, capable of doing all the widdly solos than the bes metal bands can do. But before I start with that, I have to have my basics down; know my scales, chords etc.
It's the same with your ultimate goal of WHM 60. Getting your sub up to par will help no end with that, IMO. Sometimes, pursuing a different goal will actually help you with what you *really* want to do.

[Tivia]

Lets put it this way,

If I ever see another crawler so long as I live........

Only thing I ever cast for status effect removal was haste, unless there was no rdm then poisona. Might be why I got burnt out on the game, Got fed up with being stuck fighting the same thing for so long.

[Cyndari]

So the general concensus is that it is a hinderance. Lucky for me that I do come across a few individuals that dont care about the gimped subjob and think that as long as I heal & haste everything is fine, as i am now WHM58.

I also am now using SMN25 which is still gimped but not as bad.

[Nivez]

delete me

[Nivez]

So the general concensus is that it is a hinderance. Lucky for me that I do come across a few individuals that dont care about the gimped subjob and think that as long as I heal & haste everything is fine, as i am now WHM58.

I also am now using SMN25 which is still gimped but not as bad.

smn 25 is livable, better than your blm subjob. but then again, your getting by because there are no better whm's out there, and your the only one. eventually your going to run into a point in which your going to have competition seeking, and your not going to get invites because of it.

plus as the game goes on,your perpetuating your status at end game, if you keep going like this. people will think your a dumb n00b and gimp, and dont want to be around you. i knew a few people from lvling pld that i dont associate with anymore due to the fact they had underlvled subs/no equip/dumbass/and attitude. still i dont trust most of them, because skill only goes soo far, you have to have the spells/equp/and skill to play any character. without it your not just cheating yourself but everyone else. my view is that stop now and lvl your subs, farm, get spells, and prepare for the long haul. and NO dont even think about not having r2 post 60, simple reason, if you want to check the xp loss, its rediculous, and considering one of the MAIN reasons your there post 56 is for r2/r3, i say get it now.

[Cyndari]

Niv you are right, there have been times when I have had to wait up to two hrs to get an invite.

:shiftyeyes: only two more levels to go :shiftyeyes:

[Ambrey]

So the general concensus is that it is a hinderance. Lucky for me that I do come across a few individuals that dont care about the gimped subjob and think that as long as I heal & haste everything is fine, as i am now WHM58.

I also am now using SMN25 which is still gimped but not as bad.

smn 25 is livable, better than your blm subjob. but then again, your getting by because there are no better whm's out there, and your the only one. eventually your going to run into a point in which your going to have competition seeking, and your not going to get invites because of it.

plus as the game goes on,your perpetuating your status at end game, if you keep going like this. people will think your a dumb n00b and gimp, and dont want to be around you. i knew a few people from lvling pld that i dont associate with anymore due to the fact they had underlvled subs/no equip/dumbass/and attitude. still i dont trust most of them, because skill only goes soo far, you have to have the spells/equp/and skill to play any character. without it your not just cheating yourself but everyone else. my view is that stop now and lvl your subs, farm, get spells, and prepare for the long haul. and NO dont even think about not having r2 post 60, simple reason, if you want to check the xp loss, its rediculous, and considering one of the MAIN reasons your there post 56 is for r2/r3, i say get it now.

*Agrees entirely* Get off ur duff, take a break and lvl ur sj's, dont be a n00b.

[Shirai]

Just to add a lil from my side,

lvling a sub really is worth it, it's better for the stats and better for your status in the long run.

As for spells, if you think Raise II is bad to buy, wouldn't you want to have your personal Raise II in the form of Reraise II at 60?
I don't know how it is on midgard but on Titan I had to chug up the same price for both spells. >.>

If you don't like to farm, there's always the option of playing teleporter for 1-2 days a week.
That helped me through the 40's to 60's a lot.

Now I started to lvl ninja I'll prolly have to resort to that again when NMs fall out of my LS's time window.

[Darkmattre]

that's a good point about reputation.

As you level up, people will remember you for one thing or another. Sometimes it becomes a kind of bond. Hell, I remember one PLD i partied with one time in crawlers nest. Believe it not, when you hit endgame, people will remember your name as one they leveled with at one point or another.

There was another pld that I partied with quite often as I was going through 50-60s. One day I heard he broke the clear time record on Maat. I was genuinely happy for him and proud that I partied with him. And of course, I had a certain amount of satisfaction, when one day, I was able to tell him I broke the clear time record for THF maat fight,

So, moral of the story is...your relationship with the end game community is already being forged. From your first party in the dunes, to the time you hit 75 in sky (probably in sky, lol). People will remember you, but what do you want them to remember you for?

[Karou Ariyen]

honestly, that isnt a hinderance.... but this is:

[Cyndari]

roflmfao!!