as if /pizza was bad enough.....check this out

[Prrsha]

Prrsha and Nivez need to grow up, you wanted to pick a fight with each other and you did so keep it off the boards ><

Agreed. I will comment on his posts no longer. If you want to flame me Nivez do it in a PM.

[Tivia]

Aww I just finished making popcorn..



On a side note, I think Prrsha is one of the few people I have met in a while that is equally hardheaded as me. I do admit I get a bit obstinate about my points from time to time, tho I try to see both sides, I know I miss it here and there.

[Prrsha]

Aww I just finished making popcorn..



On a side note, I think Prrsha is one of the few people I have met in a while that is equally hardheaded as me. I do admit I get a bit obstinate about my points from time to time, tho I try to see both sides, I know I miss it here and there.

Thanks, I think.

Yeah I do get carried away at times too when it involves something I feel strongly about. :/

[Golddess]

"cheating" is all about giving a player an unfair advantage over other players... one that another player doesn't have the access to. When one "cheats" they vilolate the ingame rules to get ahead, weither it be botting, aim bot hacking, goldbuying etc.

The thing that seperates buying an item, with out-of-game cash other then using in-game cash, is that it's an outside element of the gaming environment. It gives players an edge that other players don't have access to outside of game.

Curious.

So, basically, anything that gives one player an advantage over another is considered cheating, is that it?

If someone doesn't have RL time to spend skilling up skills, farming, crafting, etc, does that mean everyone who does have that time to waste is a cheater? Those players with extra spare time clearly have an advantage over those w/o. And it is clearly outside influences that are affecting such an advantage.

No one will cry foul if you have a better connection in a FPS game and are able to "frag" your opponent faster then another person.

You don't play many FPS, do you?

How many polls do you want? I can google the internet and find tons of them all with the same result. But then again you would just think the same thing despite the evidence, so why do I bother?

Another poll this one on IGN:

http://eq2vault.ign.com/?dir=sympoll&dispid=27&vo=27

click on results.

How many polls do you want? 10 ok? 100?

By the laws of average, if every friggin pole on the internet about this shows the majority are against it, wouldn't that say something?

Prrsha needs to take STAT101

[Neoshinobi]

{Um...} Prrsha edit button {Do you have it?}

[Prrsha]

Curious.

So, basically, anything that gives one player an advantage over another is considered cheating, is that it?

If someone doesn't have RL time to spend skilling up skills, farming, crafting, etc, does that mean everyone who does have that time to waste is a cheater? Those players with extra spare time clearly have an advantage over those w/o. And it is clearly outside influences that are affecting such an advantage.

Nah, that's more of a cause and effect relationship not an outside advantage.

No one will cry foul if you have a better connection in a FPS game and are able to "frag" your opponent faster then another person.

You don't play many FPS, do you?

Oh but I do. Allegiance and Jumpgate are but a few examples.

Prrsha needs to take STAT101

I'm well aware of how stats works. You should read the book "How to lie with statics". It's a good read on the topic. I did admit above that the results of the poll may be skewed by people not playing SoE. It's my opinion that the majority of the player base are against the "sell" servers, while it's Tivia's opinion that the majority are for it.

[Ephi]

i saw a funny bot used for advertizing... it was the automatic spinning shop |Bazaar| |Please check it.|i dont think thats a cheating bot... esp in the middle of Windurst nowhere near a body of water... just rotating... clockwise... i'm assuming it was a bot... maybe... i didnt ask the char if it was a bot... just in case it was a person an not a bot i'll shut up now

[Prrsha]

i cant fight with a brick wall.

I thought you were not going to flame?

a. you dont know half the story, because the reasoning is in forums you cant read, if you would like to know ask me and ill PM it to you.

Please do.

[Prrsha]

{Um...} Prrsha edit button {Do you have it?}

I have it. I just choose not to use it in those other posts. I'm not ashamed about what I said.

[Neoshinobi]

{Um...} Prrsha edit button {Do you have it?}

I have it. I just choose not to use it in those other posts. I'm not ashamed about what I said.

Actually I'm more concerned with your blatent disregard to double posting...

[Prrsha]

I made a double post? Or are you talking about 2 posts with different text in them?

I thought double posts were 2 posts of the same text in a row?

[Neoshinobi]

I made a double post? Or are you talking about 2 posts with different text in them?

I thought double posts were 2 posts of the same text in a row?

Theres usually 2 different types...Accidents and Non-accidents...

Accidents are those alla type posts you see all the time...

The other is when somebody posts more than once in a row...Not including "bumping" a topic which is different from posting in succession, which most people on forums (ok me too ) find posts made in succession by the same person "double posting."

Ok...so I tried to make this too...scientific...Its when you post twice when you could just add what you said into your previous post via the edit button.

[Prrsha]

Ah, I kinda did that in some cases so the Quotes wouldn't get all funky when quoting two different people. But I'll try to keep my posts in one post if you wish.

[Tivia]

I'm well aware of how stats works. You should read the book "How to lie with statics". It's a good read on the topic. I did admit above that the results of the poll may be skewed by people not playing SoE. It's my opinion that the majority of the player base are against the "sell" servers, while it's Tivia's opinion that the majority are for it.

That pretty much sums it up. Just remember, I have not said I like the fact that the majority appear to support, I am just stating that I feel a large percentage of the player base support this. I feel this due to how rapidly I have watched this business grow especially in the past few years. The demand by all appearances is massive, however We will see..Alot will be told by how many Sell servers soe creates...Alot more would be told if an actual poll was taken. Honestly I think all Devs should take this matter seriously and place a mandatory ingame poll to see just how much of the player population actually supports it.

[Neoshinobi]

Ah, I kinda did that in some cases so the Quotes wouldn't get all funky when quoting two different people. But I'll try to keep my posts in one post if you wish.

Some of us have to try and catch up on post counts too.

[Karou Ariyen]

Ive Had Enough. Nivez and Prrrsha, shut the heck up, you both are spouting sh*t at each other becuase you think you are looking better then the other, both of you go whine someplace else, i have had it!

[Camu]

Karou laying down the law!

[Batsu]

I don't understand whats going on in this thread. Can someone please enlighten me in a small summary so that I don't have to read the entire damned thing? Thank you very much in advance.

[Neoshinobi]

i cant fight with a brick wall.

I thought you were not going to flame?

a. you dont know half the story, because the reasoning is in forums you cant read, if you would like to know ask me and ill PM it to you.

Please do.

Prrsha: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... cranus.htm

Nivez: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... rybaby.htm

[Nivez]

Prrsha: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... cranus.htm

Nivez: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... rybaby.htm

i disagree on my point

Nivez = http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... ylhyde.htm

as for prrsha, i have no idea where to classify her yet.

[Prrsha]

Prrsha: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... cranus.htm

LMAO, I've always loved that site.

I think I am morrre like this though:

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warr ... hivist.htm

[Neoshinobi]

Anyone know what they would classify me as?

I don't know who I would classify myself as...So give me your ideas

[Tivia]

I don't understand whats going on in this thread. Can someone please enlighten me in a small summary so that I don't have to read the entire damned thing? Thank you very much in advance.

Tch its only 8 pages..should take you 15 minutes tops.

[Shirai]

I don't understand whats going on in this thread. Can someone please enlighten me in a small summary so that I don't have to read the entire damned thing? Thank you very much in advance.

Two people disagreeing on each other's opinions,and we're in the midst of it.
People getting irritated by the way their discussion is going, have requested them to set the discussion forth in Private message instead of on the boards.

for the rest it's none of our concern.
I haven't read the entire discussion, and frankly I don't want to.

[Tivia]

That was only the last couple of pages..previous to that it was a fairly good debate, if anyone was irritated it was not me.

[Ephi]

i enjoyed the debate... better than on TV ... i actually know who these ppl are

[Prrsha]

i enjoyed the debate... better than on TV ... i actually know who these ppl are

*Throws a chair*

Jerry! Jerry!


But ahem, it was a good debate.

[Tivia]

I meant to post this a bit ago, but I have been having pc problems and just now remembered while I was at work.

As to the debate of how many people are for and against concerning the debate prrsha and myself were partaking in. Here are the official numbers.

Here are the results of the polls:

What do you think of Station Exchange?

For It: 33.71%
Neutral: 32.61%
Against It: 33.68%

Do you want to participate in Station Exchange?

Yes: 24.76%
Don't Care: 29.90%
No: 45.34%

So in a nutshell its an almost equal number for and against, with a equal part who simply do not care.

And nearly 25% that will indeed participate. assuming these numbers are all independent people, ( I know many on both camps have multiple accounts hence why I will assume independence ) On a average playerbase of 300k, that is roughly 75,000 people who plan on particpating, realistically without the averages its somewhere between 60,000 and 75,000. Now suffice to say I think it is more then obvious there are not 60k+ sellers out there.

So how does this settle with me? Well to be honest I think its sad, This poll realized what I had been saying, for years and what i had debated several times here recently. While I did realize the inevitable futility of fighting this, hence why I debated it so vehemetly, I was hoping that the mmorpg community was not realisitcally in this bad of condition. I had hoped to see numbers in the 5 - 8% range which is still a large number of players but still significantly smaller. Fortunatlly they are going to get their own servers at this time, however Based on initial numbers I daresay its success is a obvious thing. While I know many other gaming companies are mocking SoE currently, I sincerely doubt that mockery will continue once it becomes obvious how much of a cash cow it is. I likewise can easily assume that the population in EQ2 is no different then any other game, and that while the numbers will fluctuate slightly from game to game they will infact remain inheritly the same.

The most dangerous group to me is the Dont care group, This is the group that can swing either way, but is still unaccounted for. While most will certaintly not participate, I would say at least a percentage will give in to temptation at some point and decide to give it a go. This is unfortunatly one of those times where I sincerely wish I was wrong about my earlier predictions.

[Crispleaf]

It's too bad it has to be like that.

The good thing about this game is that the difference between those with uber gear and those without is not all that tremendous. Even if you have modest gear you won't notice that much difference between you and other characters.

On black mage, for example, I've done about 10 damage less than a taru black mage casting the same spell on a magic burst. And I don't have morion +1 earrings either In fact, if I sold every last piece of my black mage gear, I'd probably only get a couple 100 thousand gil. And that's money I've acculumated for over a year.

The point is, even if I did "cheat" so I could scrape every last piece of uber int gear so I can match the int of a taru, is it really going to make that much difference? When a spell does hundreds in damage, 10 is hardly going to be missed.

So who are the real losers here? The frugal, legitimate players, who didn't have to spend any money to do almost as well as those who bought their uber gear for hundreds of dollars?

Another thing to keep in mind is, someday we'll all quit. Some of us will have only lost the money spent on monthly subscriptions. Others, will have spent a ridiculous amount of money on a virtual character they can't keep, in addition to their monthly subscription

[Baketsu]

^ That is something to think about. I have no idea when i will call it quits, I have had fun playing so far but know that someday will be my last day in Vana'diel