as if /pizza was bad enough.....check this out

[Fayin]

However, most of the sellers and buyers will be on the sellservers. And those who do not want 'cheaters' on their server will find that many (but not all, you'll never get rid of them all) are gone. In the end, most people win. Those who don't win, are IGE.

Nah, that won't be the case. IGE will most likely continue to operate in the "non-sell" servers that they always have. They most likely won't touch the sell servers with a 10-foot pole. Why? Well, because most of the players on the sell server will be players selling items for RL cash and like you said they wouldn't be able to outbid the players on the sell servers.

What does all of this boil down to? The same thing that you had before. You have goldseller companies still running on the legit servers and you've ended up with a few "trash" goldselling servers.

So, what's the answer to this problem? You can't sweep the problem under the rug like SoE is trying to do. It will still be there....

/sigh
Prrsha did you read my post before responding?

Now you are arguing that what SOE has done is going to make cheating run rampant and that it doesn't fix the problem. This move was not intended to fix the problem and I don't believe that it will cause rampent cheating.

The move is not to fix the problem but to contain it. If the sellers and buyers gravitate towards the sellservers, the number of them on the non-sellservers will be less than there were pre-Exchange. This will give a better play environment for those who do not an RMT environment on their server. I'm sorry but given the mechanics of the game, eliminating this activity is simply not possible.

Prrsha, I do agree that cheating is when something external to the game gives someone a clear advantage over someone else who doesn't have access to it.... Up to a point. I have DSL. Mr. BroadbandIsNotAvailibleInYourArea has 56k. Do I have an advantage over Mr. B? You bet. I almost never r0, I have lower latency, and less FPS problems due to network inadequacies. Do I feel like I'm cheating? Nope. I have a 5 year old computer. Mr. Leet just got a top of the line Alienware rig yesterday. Alliance raid, full effects he never goes below 80FPS. I pull 20 FPS with all my effects off. Is Mr. Leet cheating? Nope. I'm a poor collage student. I spent $200 on groceries yesterday and they have to last me two months. Gil McGilbuyer just spent $200 on gil. Is McGilbuyer cheating? Oh yes. Why is that? Because my definition of cheating in a MM game is when you use resources external to the game to gain an advantage in-game relating to the way the mechanics of the game work.

Better modems don't generate characters with better stats or abilities and alter the game mechanics. No one will cry foul if you have a better connection in a FPS game and are able to "frag" your opponent faster then another person. However they will get pissed if you use an external program like an aim bot to give them an edge. An aim bot alters the mechanics of the game and changes its content using an external source. The same thing applies to RL money transfers. If they wanted xxx item in the game they should trade "ingame" money for it and not use outside influences to change the playing field.

Again, did you read my post thoroughly before replying? Or are you agreeing with me?

[Prrsha]

However, most of the sellers and buyers will be on the sellservers. And those who do not want 'cheaters' on their server will find that many (but not all, you'll never get rid of them all) are gone. In the end, most people win. Those who don't win, are IGE.

Nah, that won't be the case. IGE will most likely continue to operate in the "non-sell" servers that they always have. They most likely won't touch the sell servers with a 10-foot pole. Why? Well, because most of the players on the sell server will be players selling items for RL cash and like you said they wouldn't be able to outbid the players on the sell servers.

What does all of this boil down to? The same thing that you had before. You have goldseller companies still running on the legit servers and you've ended up with a few "trash" goldselling servers.

So, what's the answer to this problem? You can't sweep the problem under the rug like SoE is trying to do. It will still be there....

/sigh
Prrsha did you read my post before responding?

Yes I did, and you should read my posts. Sony's so called "solution" will not solve or contain the problem. It will do nothing whatsoever.

Now you are arguing that what SOE has done is going to make cheating run rampant and that it doesn't fix the problem. This move was not intended to fix the problem and I don't believe that it will cause rampent cheating.

The move is not to fix the problem but to contain it. If the sellers and buyers gravitate towards the sellservers, the number of them on the non-sellservers will be less than there were pre-Exchange. This will give a better play environment for those who do not an RMT environment on their server. I'm sorry but given the mechanics of the game, eliminating this activity is simply not possible.

Nor will it contain it. Read my posts above.

Prrsha, I do agree that cheating is when something external to the game gives someone a clear advantage over someone else who doesn't have access to it.... Up to a point. I have DSL. Mr. BroadbandIsNotAvailibleInYourArea has 56k. Do I have an advantage over Mr. B? You bet. I almost never r0, I have lower latency, and less FPS problems due to network inadequacies. Do I feel like I'm cheating? Nope. I have a 5 year old computer. Mr. Leet just got a top of the line Alienware rig yesterday. Alliance raid, full effects he never goes below 80FPS. I pull 20 FPS with all my effects off. Is Mr. Leet cheating? Nope. I'm a poor collage student. I spent $200 on groceries yesterday and they have to last me two months. Gil McGilbuyer just spent $200 on gil. Is McGilbuyer cheating? Oh yes. Why is that? Because my definition of cheating in a MM game is when you use resources external to the game to gain an advantage in-game relating to the way the mechanics of the game work.

Better modems don't generate characters with better stats or abilities and alter the game mechanics. No one will cry foul if you have a better connection in a FPS game and are able to "frag" your opponent faster then another person. However they will get pissed if you use an external program like an aim bot to give them an edge. An aim bot alters the mechanics of the game and changes its content using an external source. The same thing applies to RL money transfers. If they wanted xxx item in the game they should trade "ingame" money for it and not use outside influences to change the playing field.

Again, did you read my post thoroughly before replying? Or are you agreeing with me?

Did you read my posts about the CS example? Read it again, this time slowly. A better connection does not alter your ingame stats from an outside source nor does it alter the program with a change in its software. Nor does it play the game for you.

[Fayin]

Yes I did, and you should read my posts. Sony's so called "solution" will not solve or contain the problem. It will do nothing whatsoever.

Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe the Exchange will help by giving incentive for those who wish to RMT to congregate onto the sellservers while those who don't want to will move to the non-sellservers. You believe that there will be the same, if not more incentive for 3rd party RMT companies to continue their business on the non-sellservers. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm very curious as to what the state of the game will be in 1 RL year from now.

Nor will it contain it. Read my posts above.

Again, agree to disagree.

Did you read my posts about the CS example? Read it again, this time slowly. A better connection does not alter your ingame stats from an outside source nor does it alter the program with a change in its software. Nor does it play the game for you.

I did. And it still is just another angle on exactly what I said. We'll just have to agree to agree on this point lol

[Prrsha]

I did. And it still is just another angle on exactly what I said. We'll just have to agree to agree on this point lol

No, your point was that a modem is not considered exploit so RL money trading in game should be. Like I said above, those two are not the same.

Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe the Exchange will help by giving incentive for those who wish to RMT to congregate onto the sellservers while those who don't want to will move to the non-sellservers. You believe that there will be the same, if not more incentive for 3rd party RMT companies to continue their business on the non-sellservers. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm very curious as to what the state of the game will be in 1 RL year from now.

Look at my above links to EQ forums. 75% of the player base is against this and a large amount will leave the game over this. It's a major blunder on Sony's part.

Again, agree to disagree.

Show some facts to back up your claim. Like I said above the majority of the player base is really upset over this. Do you have any evidence to dispute this fact?

[Prrsha]

Swyftwind summed of a few of the problems regarding this on the EQ forums:

IMHO, there are a number of linked reasons that support the belief that the Exchange will increase botters and farmers on all servers.

-increased competition (and SOE's %) on Exchange Servers will most likely cut the profit that professional farmers make on those servers. They will look for ways to increase their profit and non-Exchange servers are the right place from their perspective.

-increased promotion of Exchange and the money that can be made by anyone will encourage even more people to become farmers.

-SOE has not been able to sufficienly manage the botters and farmers we currently have, when they have been actively acting against them. I have no confidence that they will be any more effective in the future on non-exchange servers

These are the 3 main reasons why I believe that any claim by SOE that the impact of the officially sanctioned Exchange will be minimal on non Exchange servers is false. They are also the main reasons why I believe that this move will actually increase botters and farmers on non-Excange servers.

[Tivia]

Actually 75% are not against it, If you look at the forums, its a very vocal few posting over and over and over, dispite the fact that not a single one of them have presented a single sound argument against it, no instead every last one of them have whined incessantly and basically resorted to "its not fair".

At most I count 150 unique posters complaining about it. The minority are always the loudest.

Now as to the modem argument, That depends entirely on the game. I will give one simple example, and bow out of that argument. Ultima Online, a game I still play to this day due to the fact it still has the hands down best gameplay for a mmo ever. Its a Very Very heavily pvp oriented game, 56k user basically has no chance against a cable modem user. Its been proven time and again, in that game due to the way its netcode works, a Cable user will have a decided advantage because their client updates far more often. Now you wont see this difference in PvE games, but its still there. It only becomes pronounced in a PvP game where the One with the cable just runs all over the 56ker.

You will also see the same scenario in online FPS games..those with broadband have a Huge advantage over a 56k...

[Crispleaf]

I can give you one good reason against doing this:

It legitimizes a practice that legitimate players find abhorrent.

If your legitimate players pack up and leave, the game’s days are numbered. For a MMORPG to be successful, you need to have that loyal fan base. That must be part of the reason Sony is only doing this to some servers.

The trouble is, to be completely rid of IGE, I think they would have to make this change to all their servers. But the price of being rid of IGE this way may be at the expense of all their serious players.

There will always be that doubt whether the gold or rare item that’s for sale is actually from a player that farmed it in the game, or if it’s just a secret Sony agent trying to make extra money for the company.

[Tivia]

I can give you one good reason against doing this:

It legitimizes a practice that legitimate players find abhorrent.

If your legitimate players pack up and leave, the game’s days are numbered. For a MMORPG to be successful, you need to have that loyal fan base. That must be part of the reason Sony is only doing this to some servers.

The trouble is, to be completely rid of IGE, I think they would have to make this change to all their servers. But the price of being rid of IGE this way may be at the expense of all their serious players.

There will always be that doubt whether the gold or rare item that’s for sale is actually from a player that farmed it in the game, or if it’s just a secret Sony agent trying to make extra money for the company.

That is by far the best argument, I think anyone has presented against it. Pity none on the EQ2 forums are bright enough to state that..

Oh and I agree with it 100%, outside the fact that while a large number of legitimate players find it abhorrent, most will not leave..only a very vocal..but very small minority.

[Prrsha]

Actually 75% are not against it, If you look at the forums, its a very vocal few posting over and over and over, dispite the fact that not a single one of them have presented a single sound argument against it, no instead every last one of them have whined incessantly and basically resorted to "its not fair".

Wrong! 75% of the people are AGAINST it.

http://vnboards.ign.com/EQ2_General_Boa ... 863694/?52

[Prrsha]

I can give you one good reason against doing this:

It legitimizes a practice that legitimate players find abhorrent.

If your legitimate players pack up and leave, the game’s days are numbered. For a MMORPG to be successful, you need to have that loyal fan base. That must be part of the reason Sony is only doing this to some servers.

The trouble is, to be completely rid of IGE, I think they would have to make this change to all their servers. But the price of being rid of IGE this way may be at the expense of all their serious players.

There will always be that doubt whether the gold or rare item that’s for sale is actually from a player that farmed it in the game, or if it’s just a secret Sony agent trying to make extra money for the company.

Agreed. Sony really shot itself in the foot with this one.

[Tivia]

Actually 75% are not against it, If you look at the forums, its a very vocal few posting over and over and over, dispite the fact that not a single one of them have presented a single sound argument against it, no instead every last one of them have whined incessantly and basically resorted to "its not fair".

Wrong! 75% of the people are AGAINST it.

http://vnboards.ign.com/EQ2_General_Boa ... 863694/?52

That is a Generic forum, not even the official EQ2 forums..and that poll is based off 168 total votes..I hardly consider that 75% of a over 300k player base. Heck I dont even bother visiting VN boards anymore..I got fed up with that community 4 years ago.

Sorry Prrsha, while I do understand your side of the debate, you cannot honestly expect me to accept such a miniscule poll sample as having any realistic reflection of the overall player base.

[Prrsha]

Actually 75% are not against it, If you look at the forums, its a very vocal few posting over and over and over, dispite the fact that not a single one of them have presented a single sound argument against it, no instead every last one of them have whined incessantly and basically resorted to "its not fair".

Wrong! 75% of the people are AGAINST it.

http://vnboards.ign.com/EQ2_General_Boa ... 863694/?52

That is a Generic forum, not even the official EQ2 forums..and that poll is based off 168 total votes..I hardly consider that 75% of a over 300k player base. Heck I dont even bother visiting VN boards anymore..I got fed up with that community 4 years ago.

Sorry Prrsha, while I do understand your side of the debate, you cannot honestly expect me to accept such a miniscule poll sample as having any realistic reflection of the overall player base.

How many polls do you want? I can google the internet and find tons of them all with the same result. But then again you would just think the same thing despite the evidence, so why do I bother?

[Tivia]

The problem is, those poll results are skewed by the fact that alot of people post on numerous forums. Some are unque Id's however I daresay a majority of them are not.

My point is that on the main forum, the results are no different then your poll, however they show an extremely small sample. However an ingame poll is going to be run, and that will be required to be responded to by the entire playerbase, those poll results will paint the picture.

[Prrsha]

Another poll this one on IGN:

http://eq2vault.ign.com/?dir=sympoll&dispid=27&vo=27

click on results.

How many polls do you want? 10 ok? 100?

[Prrsha]

The problem is, those poll results are skewed by the fact that alot of people post on numerous forums. Some are unque Id's however I daresay a majority of them are not.

My point is that on the main forum, the results are no different then your poll, however they show an extremely small sample. However an ingame poll is going to be run, and that will be required to be responded to by the entire playerbase, those poll results will paint the picture.

By the laws of average, if every friggin pole on the internet about this shows the majority are against it, wouldn't that say something?

[Prrsha]

Another poll:

http://www.vanguardcrafters.com/index.p ... ults&id=20

Well, get the idea? If you want to, you can continue to search for polls on google. I've posted my feelings regarding this. I've made my arguments, and I've posted facts and polls. If you still don't want to take my word on it, fine. I guess we agree to disagree.

[Nivez]

The problem is, those poll results are skewed by the fact that alot of people post on numerous forums. Some are unque Id's however I daresay a majority of them are not.

My point is that on the main forum, the results are no different then your poll, however they show an extremely small sample. However an ingame poll is going to be run, and that will be required to be responded to by the entire playerbase, those poll results will paint the picture.

By the laws of average, if every friggin pole on the internet about this shows the majority are against it, wouldn't that say something?

there is no fucking law of adverages in statistics, 15 small biased polls are still 15 small biased polls.

the only law in staticits that matters is law of large numbers, specifically law of large sample size, a larger sample means a better representation of the population, AND basing statistics off web polls is VERY VERY bad, because they will be heavily biased, because only certain types of people go to web polls.

Another poll this one on IGN:

http://eq2vault.ign.com/?dir=sympoll&dispid=27&vo=27

click on results.

How many polls do you want? 10 ok? 100?

she want 1 poll with alot of samples to go from, from the actual users in game and not spewting idiots.

simple statistics, a small pole with few samples is not a good representation of the actual fanbase, similary a pole on even the official website would be skewed because only a certain type of player even visits the webforums. the only way to get a REAL sample of what the population thinks would be to do a compulsory stratified survey in game, or a mandatory census for each player to vote and decide, thats the only way we get an accurate representation.

so in a game of oh 300,000 distict users, lets try to pole between 1/10 or 1/100 users, that breaks down to between 3,000 and 30,000 people. that would give you an acurate representation of what the population thinks.

also prrsha, im probably not going to respond to whatever banter your going to put in responce to this post, cauze your head is a fucking brick wall. arguments hit it and nothing happens. i have never once seen you back down from a point even when you are clearly, clearly wrong. please learn when its time to end a flame fight. you arent winning anyone over by just posting over and over on the same issue, i read about 4 pages of you making the same damn arguement, with a dozen people give you counterpoints that bounced off your thick skull. if you want to intelligently converse with people, listen to what they are saying and stop repeating your same damn point, and eventually driving people so mad as to stop posting with you, because YOU DONT LISTEN OR COMPROMISE. hell i dont even think you respect others opinions, it least it doesnt seem that way. if you want to prove me wrong then how about starting now and admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

[Prrsha]

hell i dont even think you respect others opinions, it least it doesnt seem that way. if you want to prove me wrong then how about starting now and admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

Lol this is coming from a person who has flamed me several times for no reason whatsoever? Want to dig up your posts? They speak for themselves. Pot calling kettle black.

[Nivez]

hell i dont even think you respect others opinions, it least it doesnt seem that way. if you want to prove me wrong then how about starting now and admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

Lol this is coming from a person who has flamed me several times for no reason whatsoever? Want to dig up your posts? They speak for themselves. Pot calling kettle black.

i believe i explained myself very clearly why im posting against you, if you think im wrong prove it, instead of sending your bullshit back... wait thats this entire thread... amazing.

[Prrsha]

you arent winning anyone over by just posting over and over on the same issue, i read about 4 pages of you making the same damn arguement, with a dozen people give you counterpoints that bounced off your thick skull. if you want to intelligently converse with people, listen to what they are saying and stop repeating your same damn point

Acutally this entire thread consists of several people repeating the same point.

admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

Hm? I don't quite understand what you want from me. You want me to say that I was mistaken in my posts? Those are my beliefs, I'm sorry you don't agree with them. Just because you believe they are "wrong" doesn't make them so. Just because I believe they are "right" doesn't make them so either. We are debating an issue here, everyone has their own opinions on the matter and a right to them. Don't make demands of people.

[Prrsha]

hell i dont even think you respect others opinions, it least it doesnt seem that way. if you want to prove me wrong then how about starting now and admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

Lol this is coming from a person who has flamed me several times for no reason whatsoever? Want to dig up your posts? They speak for themselves. Pot calling kettle black.

i believe i explained myself very clearly why im posting against you, if you think im wrong prove it, instead of sending your bullshit back... wait thats this entire thread... amazing.

viewtopic.php?p=17538&highlight=#17538

viewtopic.php?t=1684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

viewtopic.php?p=7961&highlight=#7961

No I'm just saying that one shouldn't throw stones in a glass house. As for proof, read above.

[Tivia]

Relax people, no point in making this a personal fight. I firmly believe in attacking the issue not the person.

As to the overall, here is the reality..Prrsha has a good point in feeling like the random polls represent something, However Nivez makes an equally good point in pointing out the fact that, those are not necessarly players of the game..alot of time web polls are flat out wrong based on what i like to call "Fanboism". Now does that necessarly apply here? no..but it can certaintly be applicable. I would daresay 50% or more of those people posting in those random polls do not even play EQ2..I have seen it on forum after forum..heck there was even a poll on mmorpg.com and that forum is full of rabid WoW fanboys who hate EQ2, and gee that poll turned out almost a 90% against..but then if you post any anti EQ2 poll on that forum it will have overwhelming results..and I would say there are very very few there that actually play..they just want to give negative feedback on EQ2 for whatever innane reason.

Now I meant to specify that, we will know the truth when SoE conducts an internal poll of actual paying customers in game. I got side tracked in the middle of that post and went out to lunch before I finished. Now If the Results of that poll comes out showing a majority of the player base is Against this, and SoE proceeds anyhow, I will be one of the first to pack up and leave. Afterall while the issue itself does not offend me, the fact that a company after seeing a clear represenative picture of their paying customers, and ignoring it..that is a company that will no longer get my business. However until that poll is done and there is a Defacto poll of the actual players..everything else is postulation, and speculation.

[Prrsha]

As to the overall, here is the reality..Prrsha has a good point in feeling like the random polls represent something, However Nivez makes an equally good point in pointing out the fact that, those are not necessarly players of the game..alot of time web polls are flat out wrong based on what i like to call "Fanboism". Now does that necessarly apply here? no..but it can certaintly be applicable. I would daresay 50% or more of those people posting in those random polls do not even play EQ2..I have seen it on forum after forum..heck there was even a poll on mmorpg.com and that forum is full of rabid WoW fanboys who hate EQ2, and gee that poll turned out almost a 90% against..but then if you post any anti EQ2 poll on that forum it will have overwhelming results..and I would say there are very very few there that actually play..they just want to give negative feedback on EQ2 for whatever innane reason.

Hmmm, true random people who don't play EQ2 can influence the poll. SoE has yet to have an offical poll on their forums. I guess they don't want a poll there as the ones that were posted were deleted.

SoE is taking an out of forum poll on how many people want to transfer to the new "sell" server. The result will determine how many new sell servers will be opened. As for a poll on if people like the new system or not, they've yet to poll that.

[Nivez]

you arent winning anyone over by just posting over and over on the same issue, i read about 4 pages of you making the same damn arguement, with a dozen people give you counterpoints that bounced off your thick skull. if you want to intelligently converse with people, listen to what they are saying and stop repeating your same damn point

Acutally this entire thread consists of several people repeating the same point.

admit your wrong, and come up with another point you want to make or end this thread.

Hm? I don't quite understand what you want from me. You want me to say that I was mistaken in my posts? Those are my beliefs, I'm sorry you don't agree with them. Just because you believe they are "wrong" doesn't make them so. Just because I believe they are "right" doesn't make them so either. We are debating an issue here, everyone has their own opinions on the matter and a right to them. Don't make demands of people.

1. congrats youve figured out why im angry, this post should have ended 3 pages ago. because its just the same as all the other gillseller/bot/"illegal" anything posts that have you involved.

2. no i dont want you to give up your opinion, nor was that what i was implying, what i want you to give up is your obsession yes OBSESSION with defending that opinion to the bitter end. normal people eventually get enough and say its not worth it anymore. and is where i get off as well, because its just not worth my time and trouble to just talk to you about anything you have an opinion on.

3 as for your links.
a. situational, if you know the background (which you wont) then youl understand why

b. ive already said many times that Phenox MP restrictions i dont like, but have agreed to not mention it anymore, i suggest you fix your own linkshell before claiming to me that it still works, cauze frankly i hear that its dead now.

c. read up, it still applies, but i just made a different point this time, that im tired of hearing the same thing from you 20 times in 20 different posts. thats really whats getting on my nerves.

*note* nice to see you finally agree on something, /points to tivia's post.
no and thats not sarcasm.

[Tivia]

As to the overall, here is the reality..Prrsha has a good point in feeling like the random polls represent something, However Nivez makes an equally good point in pointing out the fact that, those are not necessarly players of the game..alot of time web polls are flat out wrong based on what i like to call "Fanboism". Now does that necessarly apply here? no..but it can certaintly be applicable. I would daresay 50% or more of those people posting in those random polls do not even play EQ2..I have seen it on forum after forum..heck there was even a poll on mmorpg.com and that forum is full of rabid WoW fanboys who hate EQ2, and gee that poll turned out almost a 90% against..but then if you post any anti EQ2 poll on that forum it will have overwhelming results..and I would say there are very very few there that actually play..they just want to give negative feedback on EQ2 for whatever innane reason.

Hmmm, true random people who don't play EQ2 can influence the poll. SoE has yet to have an offical poll on their forums. I guess they don't want a poll there as the ones that were posted were deleted.

SoE is taking an out of forum poll on how many people want to transfer to the new "sell" server. The result will determine how many new sell servers will be opened. As for a poll on if people like the new system or not, they've yet to poll that.

And if SoE fails to take that poll, I think they will be making a monumental mistake.

[Camu]

Remind me not to get on nivez's bad side.

[Prrsha]

1. congrats youve figured out why im angry, this post should have ended 3 pages ago. because its just the same as all the other gillseller/bot/"illegal" anything posts that have you involved.

That your opinion. I disagree.

2. no i dont want you to give up your opinion, nor was that what i was implying, what i want you to give up is your obsession yes OBSESSION with defending that opinion to the bitter end. normal people eventually get enough and say its not worth it anymore. and is where i get off as well, because its just not worth my time and trouble to just talk to you about anything you have an opinion on.

You demanded that I stopped posting on this thread. If anything it seems that you are obsessed with flaming me. Get a life.

3 as for your links.
a. situational, if you know the background (which you wont) then youl understand why

Uh huh, sure. Feel free to go to the 1st page or the last page in each thread. They speak for themselves.

c. read up, it still applies, but i just made a different point this time, that im tired of hearing the same thing from you 20 times in 20 different posts. thats really whats getting on my nerves.

You don't like the thread? Don't read it. No one is forcing you to.

b. ive already said many times that Phenox MP restrictions i dont like, but have agreed to not mention it anymore, i suggest you fix your own linkshell before claiming to me that it still works, cauze frankly i hear that its dead now.

Ok, you may flame me, but you may not flame the members of MP Phoenix. Look at our active roster before making your claims. So in closing, go f*** yourself. Thank you.

[Prrsha]

Remind me not to get on nivez's bad side.

Oh you will. It's only a matter of time sadly. :/

[Karou Ariyen]

Prrsha and Nivez need to grow up, you wanted to pick a fight with each other and you did so keep it off the boards ><

[Nivez]

i cant fight with a brick wall.

oh and a few final things just to set the record straight.

a. you dont know half the story, because the reasoning is in forums you cant read, if you would like to know ask me and ill PM it to you.

b. i havent flamed you in months, and i dont go around just looking when to flame you next, nor do i plan to look to flame you in the future. its not fun for me either.

c. not many people get on my bad side, alot of people see my bad side at times, but im not one for going out and turning friends into enemies. (doesnt apply to you honey WoW trator >< >.> ;p )