Hmmmm...

[Prrsha]

Audience Question:
Does the direction you are facing take any affect when you synthesize?

It may depend on what you're synthesizing

http://www.square-enix.com/events/ffxi/ ... panel.html

[Sivara]

Other interesting pieces: [parts in bold are my added emphasis]

In regards to the conflict PvP, we are planning to implement a new system different from the current Ballista matches. We can't give any details, but we did take in the most common feedback we've had from the players of having a much "smaller battle"...

My comment: Arena/coliseum battles?

Gil inflation is a huge factor in making the game enjoyable for everyone. We can't explain any specifics at this time, however we do have detailed ideas on how to balance out inflation within the game. We do have long term plans to continuously improve the balance of economy.

My comment: {Yes, please.}

Our technical team has done comprehensive network testing to verify network hops as well as extensive ISP testing. We have data that confirms that there is no difference in lag between players in North America and Japan.

My comment: That settles that.

We are considering the future possibility of character transfers between worlds and accounts. Understanding everyone's play styles and their situation is important in making the appropriate decision in when we do implement it. But we are also making sure that any character sales actions cannot be exploited in the system.

My comment: Good! Now maybe my husband and I can play at the same time, or maybe on the same server (although I think neither of us would move away from our current servers).

[Prrsha]

We are considering the future possibility of character transfers between worlds and accounts. Understanding everyone's play styles and their situation is important in making the appropriate decision in when we do implement it. But we are also making sure that any character sales actions cannot be exploited in the system.

My comment: Good! Now maybe my husband and I can play at the same time, or maybe on the same server (although I think neither of us would move away from our current servers).

Mass Mithrrra Pride migration to Midgard?

Yes, please!

[Tivia]

Gil inflation is a huge factor in making the game enjoyable for everyone. We can't explain any specifics at this time, however we do have detailed ideas on how to balance out inflation within the game. We do have long term plans to continuously improve the balance of economy.

Mmm so they are going to attempt to stop inflation by nerfing the sin out of npc buying prices..making farm botting, fish botting, and possibly synth botting basically useless, which is a good thing. however attempt to also not drive all the gil sellers to camping NMs even more then they currently do in the same stroke..( yea right ) And of course keeping in mind that players like myself who do nothing but Invest money into buying low selling high, are just as much of a factor in the econ...Ok before it gets any deeper, anyone who has taken basic economics should know this is simply going to be impossible in a free market. Simply based off the fact that players like myself can cause far more inflation on an item then any gil seller could due to the fact that we have the patience to keep a supply completely bought up, and sell at our price. So unless they try and personally interefere with a legitmate method of gameplay in a suppossedly open econ, this is a useless statement on their part.

Our technical team has done comprehensive network testing to verify network hops as well as extensive ISP testing. We have data that confirms that there is no difference in lag between players in North America and Japan.

I want to see the "Quote" Data, Because I have just as much as says this is BS, and there is a massive lag difference between east coast NA players and Japan. Now of course it has never negatively affected me, but anyone who works in the networking field will state openly that it is basically impossible to have two clients on a network that far apart and there be no lag difference. IF SE has pulled this off, then they have server technology that noone else in the world has.

[Prrsha]

Like they said, this is only the beginning of what fixes they plan to do for the econ. Aren't you really jumping the gun by saying their tatics will be a failure before even actually seeing their long term plans?

[Tivia]

Like they said, this is only the beginning of what fixes they plan to do for the econ. Aren't you really jumping the gun by saying their tatics will be a failure before even actually seeing their long term plans?

Possibly, however I pose a simple question.

Name a single mmorpg with a open market like in FFXI that has managed to curb inflation.

With me its all logistics, that news struck me as a very well intentioned, idealistic update. Unfortunatlly in a game like this, idealism and In practice are two different concepts. It is all a matter of Variables, and the fact that there are simply too many to cope with.

Sorry I have a tendancy to be blunt and realistic about things.

[Neoshinobi]

Like they said, this is only the beginning of what fixes they plan to do for the econ. Aren't you really jumping the gun by saying their tatics will be a failure before even actually seeing their long term plans?

Possibly, however I pose a simple question.

Name a single mmorpg with a open market like in FFXI that has managed to curb inflation.

With me its all logistics, that news struck me as a very well intentioned, idealistic update. Unfortunatlly in a game like this, idealism and In practice are two different concepts. It is all a matter of Variables, and the fact that there are simply too many to cope with.

Sorry I have a tendancy to be blunt and realistic about things.

Sounds more negative to me than realistic...

[Prrsha]

Sounds more negative to me than realistic...

/nod

People in the past have said they would never revamp the old fishing system. They have said that square would nothing to combat gilsellers. They have said that square doesn't care about the game and will do nothing to fix it...

...and I am happy to point out that they have been wrong in the past and I hope they will remain so in the future.

I've played countless MMORPGs, MMOGs, etc for many many years now, and out all of those games I have played, Square seems to be the most active in confronting game issues (and fixing them) that I have seen.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Tivia, I think they are going to come up with more Gil sinks.

Every day Guild Point items remove Gil and value from the game, not enough, even with transportation thrown in, but it helps.

Saw an interesting idea, The Gold Saucer as a place where you pay in Gil to play and win in Gold points.

Choco breeding and racing could eat LOADS of Gil. Of course these are verrry special racing Chocobos, and can't be just ridden ANYWHERRRE....

Not surrre the new fishing system is going to help. What profits a game if they remove 500 Fishbots but encorage 2000 to take up fishing? The lowering of NPC prices for fish will help.

[Darkmattre]

I would love to see the Gold Saucer make an appearance in FFXI. That was honestly one of my favorite features of FF7. Often I would turn on FF7, only to go play games in the Gold Saucer.

And Choco racing/breeding would be incredible, but to make it really worthwhile, they should add an npc in choco stable that lets you ride your own choco whereever. But to be able to ride your choco outside of the racing circuit, they could make that a nice elaborate quest. I don't craft much, or fish much, or much else but quest and level up; but if chocobo breeding/racing was introduced, I would dive in and have fun with it.

[Kopopo]

I want my gold one named Nugget to make a return.

[Josiejo]

Chocobos could be like Yoshis in SMB. Many different colors, sizes, some with racing stripes and a pilot's helmet... Racing Guild points would help you "trick out" your ride.

I could care less about gil sinks, fish bots, and PvP. What I want to know is when are we going to see new jobs?!?!

[Kopopo]

If I see a boco with 20" rims and a paint job and spoiler and (literal) fart can then I'm gonna shoot myself in teh head.

[Neoshinobi]

Just think of bobo (the Chocobo) tricked out with stylish leather gausebit bag...custom gold harness roping...stylish blue headlights...top of the line darksteel choco shoes...luxorious tiger leather...and of course custom rear stickers....

[Ephi]

ooh and u could also do a quest that expands ur MH to make room for ur favorite Chocobo... so every time u walk in ur greeted with a friendly...
WARK wark kweh wark kweh kweh kweh
id love that

[Tivia]

Choco racing is definitally something I would sink gil into.

as for earlier comments, sorry sometimes reality is negative, I wish it was all sunshine and roses but its not.

They revamped the fishing system, hate to break it to them but they actually made the new system even easier to bot. Want to know specifics? Ok I will indulge you.

Previously you had no idea what was on the hook, or any way of telling. Thus alot of code had to be invested into bots to get rid of trash that filled up inventory, fight monsters etc. However now with the new stamina system, the game is required to tell the client precisely what is on the hook, hence the messages. As a result this allows the bots to work with even greater efficiency then before, as they can basically force lose whatever is on the end of the hook if they do not desire to catch it, Also as another result of this you can also tell what fish you are specifically getting so you can force lose trash fish. Allowing an even more focused approach to fishing then was previously available. This unfortunatlly has increased the advanced fishing bots efficiency a ton, and allowed for coders to spend more time on movement scripting, responses and buying selling etc. I will be honest I know first hand of a bot that can fish for specifically whatever you want, hold a conversation with a player or GM that is convincing enough to prevent any action, respond to commands if the GM wants it to "Do Tricks" to prove its not a bot, go to town, buy/sell stick fish in the AH or bazaar then go right back to fishing. This is all a result of the new system. fortunatlly the person who wrote it, only did so to see if it was possible and neither uses it nor is willing to distribute it. However since one person did it, its highly probable another will. ( especially considering people will pay insane money on ebay for something like that, gives them risk free botting. )

So, SE's attempt at removing fish bots did in fact work for a few days. However in their nievity of online persistant worlds they shut one door and threw open the floodgates. Does this concern you? It should, It certaintly concerns me. Because based off record I am not seeing SE fully consider all variables when implementing changes. I commend their efforts to be more proactive then any other mmo company, Its the reason why I own every Final Fantasy ever produced. However I have deep concerns that this dev team is now over their head and instead of thinking of logical ways to deal with problems they are simply throwing blanket bandages on it, hoping for the best. Tampering with an economy does not work..ever. I have seen in my years of online gaming 2 other attempts at economy tampering of this level..It devistated the ingame econ of both.

If this sounds negative..so be it. I do not desire to be negative I am simply trying to get people to qiut looking through rose colored glasses and wake up to reality. That reality is that messages like this are idealistic at best. It gives the majority of the player base the "warm and fuzzy" feeling that the parent company actually cares. ( And I sincerely believe that SE does actually care, which is rare. ) Unfortunatly to those that bother to look deeper then the PR news fronted by the company to appease the masses, there is a reality which paints a much different picture. It is propaganda..pure and simple, It follows the traditional theme of "Dont worry, we have everything under control. go about your daily lives being happy and know we will protect you" When the reality is, that protection is tenative at best or comes at the cost of alot of personal freedom.

I personally do not care to lose the freedom's allowed in a game like FFXI, after all it is why we play to get away from the constant restrictions of the Real world, its a form of entertainment..not another job. Of course neither would I desire to see the game overrun with rampant cheating of the type that is derogatory to others gameplay, destroying the game..I believe the Diablo series come's to mind fairly quickly on that note. In a nutshell I support SE wanting to enact change in their game to benefit their player base, I however Do not want to see them destroy the game in the process, of attempting to implement changes that bring temporary fix but create bigger problems.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Damn Tivia.

You have brains, a sense of humor, a sense of sarcasim, and a good view of reality.

Just the kind of person I can fall head over heels in love with.

Not a proposition, just honest admaration.

I have been saying for quite a while that these games would be a great Turing test. Sounds like that Superbot is getting close. How long do you think it will be till bots can pass as people full time?

[Tivia]

Thanks.


As for a "SuperBot" that could pass indefinitally as a person. That is hard to say, While I think its very easy to emulate a person for a short span of time, emulating a player for extended periods of time is an entirely different concept. I will say this, the lines of code required to write a bot as complex as the one I described above, well well into the neighborhood of 20,000 lines. Most of the of course being the chat client. In order to replicate a player fully for extended periods of time it would require literally a dictionary of code and tons of cross referencing to be able to react to differing statements and not sound automated.

to give you an idea, the Fishing script I mentioned uses a modified IRC bot, in case you have ever experienced one of those. You think you are speaking to a human, until you hit the end of its script or you say something it does not recognize. then you can recognize it as a bot due to the fact it will not make sense with its response. For every phrase/word you want it to respond to, it would require tons of code on how to react, and still without a True AI it would eventually repeat a response. Honestly for a true superbot, I am pretty doubtful that it would ever come to pass like that as a result of the amount of coding that would have to go into an AI, I would be suprised if any amount of virtual money exchange could offset that kind of cost, unless the bot its self was highly modifiable to be able to attach to any game with little effort.

Again the one I mentioned could possibly keep someone fooled for about 15 minutes tops, but if they were truly persistant they could figure it out. It was programmed however with the realization that most inquiries will never last more then about 5 minutes of active conversation.

Now If someone was truly dedicated to the idea of creating a superbot that was flexiable enough to adapt to any game, and you could not tell the difference between it and a human player. i would say that would require at least 2 years of dedicated development minimum. Of course if someone were able to create that, and had the resources to start it. I daresay they could run a company like IGE out of business easily as they could own the Virtual Cash for Cash Trade economy easily, pure profit. Instead of paying people a percentage of the profits, and a very large percentage i might add. Once development costs are covered you have a potentially unlimited number of players farming cash in any given game for any amount of time, for the cost of the monthly subscription fee. The numbers that this could generate are staggering.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

Yes, it would take programer/years of coding, but it would be a grrreat study in AI. As such, cannot you see a class project somewhere writing one?

The field has come a long way since Eliza. And her parser/response system is still a model.

As someone who will not give out my RL gender in game, I sometimes get the response, "You have to be a male or female." My answer is ALWAYS, "Do I? Have you ever heard of the Turing test?" /giggle I get a "Tsy are you a ROBOT?" response to that one once they look it up. Personaly, were I writing myself, I would turn the misspelling index WAY down.

I am not too familair with scripting in practice, the last code I wrote was in Pascal, or maybe Visual Basic somewhere in the '80s. Sounds more and more interesting though.....

IRC bot as in Internet Relay Chat? You can script a bot in that? You make me think, another trait I tend to fall for.

[Tivia]

Yes internet relay chat.

Yes do a google search for IRC bots they are plentiful.

now Can you script a game bot within one? no, but you can script a game bot to interface with one, however I assure you it is not easy.

One of my primary goals in life is exactly what you said. I want to make people think. I firmly believe the entire human race has the ability to be intelligent if they choose to be. However I am convinced that the disease that is stupidity only pervades the masses as a result of apathy. This is one of the reason's why I go out of my way to post controversial things, and sometimes do things that are controversial. It has been proven to me time and again, when you get people angry about something they start thinking. However to those who insist on continuing their apathetic way's and refusing to recognize the fact that there is in fact existance outside the mold that they have lived in their entire lives, I likewise refuse to offer them the slightest hint of respect or mercy. In a nutshell, I refuse to contribute to the continuation of ignorance.

[Baketsu]

If I see a boco with 20" rims and a paint job and spoiler and (literal) fart can then I'm gonna shoot myself in teh head.

You forgot the "Type R" stickers.

[Prrsha]

Choco racing is definitally something I would sink gil into.

as for earlier comments, sorry sometimes reality is negative, I wish it was all sunshine and roses but its not.

They revamped the fishing system, hate to break it to them but they actually made the new system even easier to bot. Want to know specifics? Ok I will indulge you.

Previously you had no idea what was on the hook, or any way of telling. Thus alot of code had to be invested into bots to get rid of trash that filled up inventory, fight monsters etc. However now with the new stamina system, the game is required to tell the client precisely what is on the hook, hence the messages. As a result this allows the bots to work with even greater efficiency then before, as they can basically force lose whatever is on the end of the hook if they do not desire to catch it, Also as another result of this you can also tell what fish you are specifically getting so you can force lose trash fish. Allowing an even more focused approach to fishing then was previously available. This unfortunatlly has increased the advanced fishing bots efficiency a ton, and allowed for coders to spend more time on movement scripting, responses and buying selling etc. I will be honest I know first hand of a bot that can fish for specifically whatever you want, hold a conversation with a player or GM that is convincing enough to prevent any action, respond to commands if the GM wants it to "Do Tricks" to prove its not a bot, go to town, buy/sell stick fish in the AH or bazaar then go right back to fishing. This is all a result of the new system. fortunatlly the person who wrote it, only did so to see if it was possible and neither uses it nor is willing to distribute it. However since one person did it, its highly probable another will. ( especially considering people will pay insane money on ebay for something like that, gives them risk free botting. )

So, SE's attempt at removing fish bots did in fact work for a few days. However in their nievity of online persistant worlds they shut one door and threw open the floodgates. Does this concern you? It should, It certaintly concerns me. Because based off record I am not seeing SE fully consider all variables when implementing changes. I commend their efforts to be more proactive then any other mmo company, Its the reason why I own every Final Fantasy ever produced. However I have deep concerns that this dev team is now over their head and instead of thinking of logical ways to deal with problems they are simply throwing blanket bandages on it, hoping for the best. Tampering with an economy does not work..ever. I have seen in my years of online gaming 2 other attempts at economy tampering of this level..It devistated the ingame econ of both.

If this sounds negative..so be it. I do not desire to be negative I am simply trying to get people to qiut looking through rose colored glasses and wake up to reality. That reality is that messages like this are idealistic at best. It gives the majority of the player base the "warm and fuzzy" feeling that the parent company actually cares. ( And I sincerely believe that SE does actually care, which is rare. ) Unfortunatly to those that bother to look deeper then the PR news fronted by the company to appease the masses, there is a reality which paints a much different picture. It is propaganda..pure and simple, It follows the traditional theme of "Dont worry, we have everything under control. go about your daily lives being happy and know we will protect you" When the reality is, that protection is tenative at best or comes at the cost of alot of personal freedom.

I personally do not care to lose the freedom's allowed in a game like FFXI, after all it is why we play to get away from the constant restrictions of the Real world, its a form of entertainment..not another job. Of course neither would I desire to see the game overrun with rampant cheating of the type that is derogatory to others gameplay, destroying the game..I believe the Diablo series come's to mind fairly quickly on that note. In a nutshell I support SE wanting to enact change in their game to benefit their player base, I however Do not want to see them destroy the game in the process, of attempting to implement changes that bring temporary fix but create bigger problems.

As yes... A few pay for hack sites have offered up some memory sniffing progies that do indeed counter the new fishing system, yes. But it is now harder for your average joe script writer to come up with a bot to counter it. That means less bots in general and that is a step in the right direction. Square is also aware of several hacks and are taking measures to counter the memory sniffing progs.

Also, square has taken some countermeasures to fix the claiming of mobs before they are spawned. Mobs spawn "dead" for a few secs now. I've been privy to several games that have died to an ingame econ collapse (I was even a GM in one of them) and in my opinion I think square is taking the right steps to remedy the problem.

[Ephi]

to give you an idea, the Fishing script I mentioned uses a modified IRC bot, in case you have ever experienced one of those. You think you are speaking to a human, until you hit the end of its script or you say something it does not recognize. then you can recognize it as a bot due to the fact it will not make sense with its response. For every phrase/word you want it to respond to, it would require tons of code on how to react, and still without a True AI it would eventually repeat a response.

Again the one I mentioned could possibly keep someone fooled for about 15 minutes tops, but if they were truly persistant they could figure it out. It was programmed however with the realization that most inquiries will never last more then about 5 minutes of active conversation.

couldnt u also just keep saying "hello" to 1 repeatedly an if it doesnt get annoyed after 3 minutes or more of this an just keeps saying "hi" or "hello" with no change of tone or phrases etc. it could be a bot?

Also, square has taken some countermeasures to fix the claiming of mobs before they are spawned. Mobs spawn "dead" for a few secs now.

ooh i noticed that and the 1st 1 i did notice was a Boggart...*shudder*... it was creepy + the fact it spawned right behind me while i was fighting another Boggart ... it like undied b4 my eyes...

[Tivia]

Nope it keeps an active chat log and will not respond to the same phrase more then twice. to give you an idea..

Player01 tells you Hello
Bot responds with a variable delay on how quick it responds, Hi ( of course it has a fairly large number of phrases it can choose from. )

Player01 Tells you hello for the second time
Bot responds with Yes? or something along that line, indicating it is fully aware you just said hello a moment ago.

Player01 tells you hello a third time.
Bot, at this point does not bother responding, and it will continue to ignore all further greeting type phrases from this point foward from this specific player.

There is also a clause in it, where if a player continues to spam the bot, it will automatically add the player to its internal blacklist. So if it recieves any tells inquiring as to why it is not responding to player01, It scans its list and if it finds a match, it responds along the lines of I added player01 to my blacklist because he kept spamming me with useless tells.

Also depending on how long the phrase is that its responding with, it will add a specific delay variable to each word in its response, to infer typing delay. So it will not respond instantly, it may respond immeditally, it may not respond for 5 or 10 seconds.

This is a simple example of how it works. But i believe you get the message.

[xaresity]

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[xaresity]

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