Tips for Kirin

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Finwich
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Tips for Kirin

Post by Finwich » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:45 pm

Here is the set up for my ls: We usually fight with 22+, We won't attempt with less people, since we don't like the risk.

Kite Party:
NIN NIN WHM WHM RDM PLD

This group kites Kirin around while the rest of the alliance focuses on killing the minis. 4 people is usually plenty for this group- WHM RDM NIN NIN is fine.

Main Alliance:

Tank party: PLD/WAR PLD RDM/DRK WHM WHM or another PLD
BLM Party: BLM x5 (+ or - if you want to use SMN) and BRD or RDM
DD Party: Misc DD to SC: SAM RNG DRK work best I've found. A BRD can be added to this party, but not needed. MNK is great for chi blast.

Minis: The goal is to kill each quickly so there is little to no overlapping of Gods.
1. Genbu- Too weak. If worse comes to worse, can be kited forever while others are killed.
2. Suzaku- Use a RDM/DRK to Chainspell stun it's two hour. Do this from behind a PLD to get Cover so you won't kill the RDM.
3. Seiryu: Have PLDs invincible in a succession once it two-hours. Have to be quick or they will get eaten. Keep it dispelled.
4. Byakko: Not so hard, just keep everyone paralyna-ed

Put your alliance leader in the DD or BLM party, once the Minis are dead, you will drop the tank party and invite the Kite party.

Kirin time!
Kirin is kited the whole time, can be by NIN, PLD/WAR or PLD/NIN. All kiters should be constantly poisoned with poison/venom potions to guard against sleep. Kiters should NEVER stop running. SCing is done when Kirin stops to -aga spell, AM or so a TP move. If the kiters keep moving, they will not be hit, since they will be out of range. Using Wind Carol can be helpful against great Whirlwind.

DD should make Light or Frag, BLM can MB off each SC for damage. SC needs to be done when he stops moving to -aga, TP move, AM, etc. You have to be quick, have somone calling the next group to SC and have the DDs call their TP. His casting will usually be interupted by the SC and by the kiter running away. Make sure mages clear out when -aga starts, in case it goes off. MNK can be switched in an out to boost and chi blast. They can do big damage on Kirin with good MND gear.

Paralyze and Bio II should be kept on as much as possible to prevent regen. Enfeebs are very hard to land and get resisted often. Gravity is a must, but DO NOT have everyone spamming it. Pick the RDM/BLM you have with the highest enfeebling magic to do this. Hopefully, they have Wind accuracy merited as well. It will build resist to Gravity quickly, so you don't want to have a bunch of BLM spamming it if they will get resisted right away. (Just a note, I have full wind acc merits, full enfeeb merits with enfeebling magic being 339 with gear, and I still get resisted 1/3 of the time. Becomes 2/3s towards the end, and ES is needed- even then it will land and wear almost immediately)

SMN can do constant dmg with Diabolos or another avatar with merited ranged attack. Diabolos should do around 500 a hit, so it can be a huge help to have smn.

Watch the two hour, start warning people when 50% gets close so they can stay back a bit. Hopefully only a few people go down.

Lather/rinse/repeat until dead.

Kirin can be straight tanked, but I haven't done that. I also have done a TP or manaburn on Kirin. There are other ways to do this fight, but my LSs have been very successful using this strat. Good luck and I hope this helps!
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Post by Pheonixhawk » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:27 pm

Also make sure nobody WS until Hate is stable by the tanks. Someone made that mistake and died a horrible death. :lol:
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Post by ScarlettPheonix » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Hate can be hard to judge with him, especially after the alliance joins in and DDs start rotating in and out to WS.

First thing- don't call for help on Kirin :x

Another nice (and I do mean nice) job to have in the alliance is COR. I've done Kirin a few times with a COR and oh my- :love: Warlock's Roll for enfeebling him. I was able to land SLOW II (and the WHM landed bind on him at one point to lol) on him w/ a COR. Gravity also landed with better results.

Swapping COR in to the DD party for the various DD rolls (especially Chaos if you have a DRK in the party at the time) is nice too.

Bonus- CORs can enhance the effect of Slow/Bio with their matching elemental shots. (Earth shot, Dark shot, etc)

All NMs build up a resistance to gravity and like Finwich said, Kirin is no different. If your kite party is doing ok keeping him kited and he's starting to build a resistance to it, it can be an option to just not cast it for a few minutes and let his resistance wear off a bit. I don't recommend it for inexperienced kiters though.

Another method (although longer) for dealing with Suzy's (and Sieryu's) two hr is to Shadowbind and back away. Takes coordination and focus on the part of the DDs so they don't break Shadowbind, but a good way to deal with it if you don't have any RDM/drks in the alliance.
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Post by Okuza » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:00 pm

Our kite party = NIN/drk NIN/drk RDM WHM.

You can use nin/war or pld/nin for the NIN/drk, but we've gotten our best results with nin/drk. NIN/war agro is VERY soft. You have to work really hard and voke every 30s or you'll never hold agro as NIN/war. By the time the mini-alliance is done, a NIN/drk should have enough hate built up to hold agro over all but the biggest agro spike -- and for those a single fresh stun will pull it back.

Just tell your tanks to be SURE to pile on as much agro as they can as soon as they can. Every second they wait past the time when STUN or VOKE is ready is agro lost to decay and potential agro not applied.

-=-=-

BTW, I've stuck BIND on Kirin as NIN/drk a couple times. It's great during the pre-DD phase when you're only kiting and not DD'ing. He just stands there for a minute or more. During DD-phase, it's only amusing if you like to see him suddenly lash out and slay some poor hapless melee before the bind breaks. It's not something to count on, too. I usually only stick about 1 every third fight.

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Post by Shirai » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:14 pm

Pretty complete guide.

Indeed, you can also Shadowbind the 2 hours of Suzaku and Seiryu.
However this needs people paying attention 100% and disengage when they do.
One hit or nuke and the bind is broken.

As for BLMs, unless they MB they aren't very useful on Kirin, he starts resisting elemental magic fast.
(Ever watched a fully merited RMT BLM group take down Kirin? I have and it took them 4 hours! excluding the lesser god kills -.-a )
So does the summoner's tier II merit BPs.
Nether Blast however doesn't get resisted fast and if it gets resisted you get resisted it's no more then 30 damage less.
However just one summoner won't cut it, many summoners however :love:

The best jobs to take Kirin down melee wise are the jobs with 2 handed weapons,
Samurai, Dark Knights, Dragoons, Great axe Warriors.
Rangers are also pretty impressive.
Otherwise sub sam or sleep TP with a Sword and Spirits Within.
Remember: Kirin is a level 92 Mob with an extremely high defense and a high evasion so unless you are merited decently 1 handed weapons won't do much to him at all.

Monks indeed on Chi Blast duty, with enough MND gear they can reach impressive numbers.
Unless they sub Dark Knight they won't do much damage with their melee hits unless you TP burn Kirin.

As for Kiters:
Physical damage reduction gear doesn't help you much as most attacks from Kirin while kiting are elemental damage.
Best to gear up Wind and Stone resistance and Magic defense/magical damage taken -% gear.
The advantage most elemental resistance for these elements gear has both!!

Also try to kite in a small circle leaving you enough space to outrun an unexpected Stonega IV.

In case you have a co-kiter try to share hate, don't hog all the hate to yourself.

Healers:
Try to stay out of AoE magic range and try to anticipate where your kiter will run.
My position is usually inside the circle where they kite Kirin around.
I also have a macro that basicly only has the line /assist <t> in it so I can see who Kirin is chasing.
This way I can keep an eye on the kiter wether I am in or outside the alliance/party.

About hate:
When the alliance starts taking him down it simply gets tricky.
Especially with nin/war kiters.
Provoke and other abilities just aren't enough to keep hate on you when you only have provoke to maintain hate.
As many nins know, we usually rely on our melee to maintain it in merit parties, or SATA which is pretty hard to do on a mob you kite.
Recent research also pointed out the enmity Provoke gives is reset to 0 after 30 seconds.
So when a MNK Chi Blasts for 1100 damage, a War Sneak attack Steel Cyclones for 1200 damage or a BLM MBs a Tornado II for 1400 damage. to give a few examples... there's no way you keep hate from that as ninja/warrior.

Paladins have a better way to keep hate even with nin sub because they get Flash and can cure themselves which generates more hate which lasts a longer time.
Sentinel also generates a very nice amount of enmity.
So if you want hate settled decently you're better off with PLD kiters.
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Post by Ambrey » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:45 pm

ScarlettPheonix wrote:Hate can be hard to judge with him, especially after the alliance joins in and DDs start rotating in and out to WS.

First thing- don't call for help on Kirin :x

Another nice (and I do mean nice) job to have in the alliance is COR. I've done Kirin a few times with a COR and oh my- :love: Warlock's Roll for enfeebling him. I was able to land SLOW II (and the WHM landed bind on him at one point to lol) on him w/ a COR. Gravity also landed with better results.

Swapping COR in to the DD party for the various DD rolls (especially Chaos if you have a DRK in the party at the time) is nice too.

Bonus- CORs can enhance the effect of Slow/Bio with their matching elemental shots. (Earth shot, Dark shot, etc)

All NMs build up a resistance to gravity and like Finwich said, Kirin is no different. If your kite party is doing ok keeping him kited and he's starting to build a resistance to it, it can be an option to just not cast it for a few minutes and let his resistance wear off a bit. I don't recommend it for inexperienced kiters though.

Another method (although longer) for dealing with Suzy's (and Sieryu's) two hr is to Shadowbind and back away. Takes coordination and focus on the part of the DDs so they don't break Shadowbind, but a good way to deal with it if you don't have any RDM/drks in the alliance.
Nice tips, from everyone. Just wanted to say thats a kewl sig you have there Phoenix, love the cute mithra pose as she's making her decision. :D

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Post by Okuza » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:19 am

Shirai wrote:...
In case you have a co-kiter try to share hate, don't hog all the hate to yourself.
This is the only point I'd vehemently disagree with (others are minor quibbles). When you're doing stand-up tanking, you need to not hog hate, but when you're kiting, definitely hog all the hate you can. Every kiter should go for maximum hate at all times.

The reason for this is that pong hate is actually bad during a kite. The more predictable movements the critter has, the easier it is for everyone else to apply DD and heal/etc.. Also, the kiter is probably not getting hit at all. More hate on one kiter means the DD can output more.

If the hate hogging kiter dies, the critter will naturally turn and stat chasing the kiter that has a little less hate. That's not as nice for the DD, but the alliance still runs just fine.
Shirai wrote: Recent research also pointed out the enmity Provoke gives is reset to 0 after 30 seconds.
So when a MNK Chi Blasts for 1100 damage, a War Sneak attack Steel Cyclones for 1200 damage or a BLM MBs a Tornado II for 1400 damage. to give a few examples... there's no way you keep hate from that as ninja/warrior.
Actually, there is a way, but it's hard and requires costly gear. You need maximum enmity -- all HQ/+1 (zero NQ). The more you have the better. Then you 'voke every 30s. When you have enmity increasing the total hate applied by voke, it doesn't decay in 30s -- you start with more, so it takes longer to decay all the way down. If you keep voking every 30s without fail, this residual hate builds up higher and higher and higher.

The only difference really between nin/drk and nin/war is that ALL of voke's hate decays, but only some of stun's hate decays. Stun hate is a bit lower than voke, but recast is under 30s with full haste, and you can use it from longer range. So, over time, nin/drk builds up more hate and more non-decaying hate.

NIN/war can work, it's just a TON more effort for the NIN to build up a respectable lead. You can't let your voke go unused ever. Not even for a second.
Shirai wrote: Paladins have a better way to keep hate even with nin sub because they get Flash and can cure themselves which generates more hate which lasts a longer time.
Sentinel also generates a very nice amount of enmity.
So if you want hate settled decently you're better off with PLD kiters.
PLD/nin has all the right tools. It's basically the same as NIN/drk in principle: more non-decaying, longer range, quicker recasting hate. It depends a little on the player, too, though. Our NIN/drks seem to do better than our PLD.

-=-=-

BTW, there's nothing "wrong" with taking a long time to slay Kirin. Everyone starts out taking forever. Eventually, you'll want to kill several in one run. Then you start worrying about time. When you start wanting to kill 4+ in a run, you'll start obsessing about time.

Kirin x2 kite style isn't too bad. I'm ready for a nice nap after that, though. Kirin x4 I would not want to even consider kite style. Ugh. I'd be wrung out.

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Post by ScarlettPheonix » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:24 am

Ambrey wrote:Nice tips, from everyone. Just wanted to say thats a kewl sig you have there Phoenix, love the cute mithra pose as she's making her decision. :D
Thank you! :)

I'm really happy with the way it turned out and yes, the pose is just pure win :lol:

It one of the mannequin poses for Mithra. I like it better than our in game /think pose. Wish SE had given us this one instead.
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Post by Shirai » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:35 am

Okuza wrote:
Shirai wrote:...
This is the only point I'd vehemently disagree with (others are minor quibbles). When you're doing stand-up tanking, you need to not hog hate, but when you're kiting, definitely hog all the hate you can. Every kiter should go for maximum hate at all times.
If possible, I always try to cap out hate.
But only if my co-tank is able to as well. Basicly what we do is bounce hate between us to keep Kirin running a small circle so we both have enough room to run away in case of a Stonega IV.
Otherwise to get Kirin off with Warcry or a Ninjutsu quick in case a whirlwind or sandstorm gets me or my co-tank in red suddenly.
I haven't been able to really cap hate on kited mobs myself since I don't have my drk sub up yet so I have to go with the tools I have.
Shirai wrote: ...
Actually, there is a way, but it's hard and requires costly gear. You need maximum enmity -- all HQ/+1 (zero NQ). The more you have the better. Then you 'voke every 30s. When you have enmity increasing the total hate applied by voke, it doesn't decay in 30s -- you start with more, so it takes longer to decay all the way down. If you keep voking every 30s without fail, this residual hate builds up higher and higher and higher.
Yep, but as you say yourself,
costly business.
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Post by Pheonixhawk » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:04 pm

A good strat for PLDs (We had three PLD tanks no ninjas) is for the PLD to cure each other. This really did help them share the hate off each other and keep it even. A bit scary when Kirin went unclaimed for a split second tho :oops:
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Post by Okuza » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Pheonixhawk wrote:A good strat for PLDs (We had three PLD tanks no ninjas) is for the PLD to cure each other. This really did help them share the hate off each other and keep it even. A bit scary when Kirin went unclaimed for a split second tho :oops:
Yeah, cross-curing works great. It's also something that the kite support folk need to avoid. If you cure the kiter when you're far away (20'+?), you don't get any hate on Kirin. If you cure the kiter and Kirin is right next to you, you get a TON of hate. Which distance you pick depends on if you want the hate or not. ^~

I don't think we've had him go unclaimed; we have a different problem. With our mnk/blm squad rotating in and out, we sometimes get him claimed by someone outside the alliance if they leave just after gaining top agro. This isn't so bad if Kirin chases them down and kills thems. More usually, their agro spike just peaked for a tad and then it's back on the kiters.

So, we end up with an unattackable Kirin. One time a BLM did that then AFK'd while med'ing back MP. We went for about 10m of trying to find the person with the claim and get him back into alliance or dead. It was a circus.

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