Wings of the Goddess (Altana) news from E3! NEW JOBS!!!

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Wings of the Goddess (Altana) news from E3! NEW JOBS!!!

Post by Keavy »

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21625.html
E3 2007 trailer.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161097
1up.com's James Mielke interviews SE rep's about the new expansion pack. For those of you who don't know he is an active FFXI player on Siren.
1up.com wrote: As always, whenever the tight-knit creative nucleus of the Final Fantasy XI team is in town, we're there to grill them on the latest workings of their long-running massively-multiplayer online role-playing game, which is now entering its fifth chapter (the original FFXI, Rise of the Zilart, Chains of Promathia, and Treasures of Aht Urhgan precede it) with the latest expansion pack, Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess. The persons we spoke with were Koichi Ogawa, TOAU and now-WOTG director, as well as Hiromichi Tanaka, long-time Square veteran and FFXI producer, Sage Sundi (global online producer), and Yasu Kurosawa (North American online producer), with Koji Fox handling translation duties as usual. Here now is the result of our brief conversation with the team during the hustle and bustle of E3 in sunny Santa Monica, along with a quick recap of currently known factoids about Wings of the Goddess.
Orcs is Orcs of course, of course.

CRUNCHY FACTOIDS:

Wings of the Goddess will ship simultaneously for Japan, North America (that means you too, Canada), and Europe on PC, PS2 (as well as being compatible with PS3), and Xbox 360 in Winter 2007 (meaning before the end of 2007).

All three versions will be identical, despite the different names for each territory's version.

A new standalone version of FFXI will be available at select outlets soon for the low cost of $3.99. The entire data of FFXI and each expansion pack will be included, but gamers--whose trial period only lasts for 30 days--will only be able to access the expansion areas by purchasing additional serial codes to register the expansion packs.

Koichi Ogawa (game director), and Koji Fox (translator).

WINGS OF THE GODDESS INTERVIEW:

1UP: OK, let's hit the ground running. What can you tell us about Wings of the Goddess?

Koichi Ogawa: What you can probably see from the screenshots is that the setting is in Vana'diel's past, around the time of the Crystal War.

1UP: So, to clarify, Wings of the Goddess will take place in a previous time, and not, say, a parallel or alternate universe, right?

KO: It's like the first thing you said. You're going back and forth; it's not a parallel world.

1UP: So if you're going back and forth, it seems like this could open up certain gameplay elements by affecting events of the past and influencing the future as we know it.

KO: [Knowingly] Um, probably. [Laughs]

1UP: Does this mean you'll spend a meaningful amount of time in this world, as opposed to making quick visits to the past?

Koji Fox: You mean kind of like how people go to Aht Urhgan and spend most of their time there?

KO: We're planning on having at least one area that functions as a base type of area in the past where players can stay if they want to. But it's up to the players--depending on their play style, they can stay in the present and go to the past, or go to the past and make it their point of origin.

1UP: Since you'll be messing with the past in Wings of the Goddess, do you plan to introduce any type of lineage--not the game--but family-tree type of functionality to the game? It seems like you could introduce some ancestral elements.

KO: [Laughs] Probably not.

1UP: Since the game will take place in the past, how will the economy work? Will there be a separate economy, or will you just use the money you make in the future (aka now) in the past?

KO: It'll probably be the same system--there won't be a different money system. It'll be more like going to a different area like the Aht Urhgan area and getting items and taking them back to the new areas. It's that type of system.

1UP: So it'll be pretty cut-and-dried; it won't be this complex new system.

KF: Yep, that's right.

Hiromichi Tanaka (FFXI Producer), Koichi Ogawa.

1UP: Since every other expansion has introduced new jobs to FFXI, and since TOAU added three new jobs, does this mean Wings won't add new jobs, and you'll spend your time fine-tuning the jobs you introduced in TOAU? Or will you add new jobs to Wings?

KO: Pretty much both. There will be new jobs, and we'll be doing what we did with Promathia. Then we'll take the jobs we introduced in Aht Urhgan and expand on those as well.

1UP: Really? That's nice. In a past interview I did with you guys, you mentioned how you were slowly adding to the number of armor types because you weren't sure how much the [lowest common denominator] PS2 system memory could manage, in terms of displaying so much different armor. But with COP and especially now with TOAU's Assault and Salvage gear, you've got a lot of new looks. Have you ever thought of adding new hairstyles, character models, or races, and if not, why not?

KO: Yeah, the PS2 technology isn't going to get any better, so that's why we can't add any new races. The same with hairstyles, too.

1UP: Even though you've added so much new armor?

Hiromichi Tanaka: By adding a new hairstyle, we'd have to go back and remake every model for all of the armor on that new hairstyle. It's not just changing the color of the hair. If we change that, we have to change the helmet for how it looks on this type of hairstyle.

1UP: Speaking of armor, especially with TOAU you've added a lot of great new armor, which is found in Salvage and Assault. That sort of answered a question I asked you in the past, where I suggested that armor drop rates in Dynamis could be a little less frustrating. Your proposed solution was to create compelling alternatives that could be found in other activities, like Salvage, and the armor you can earn there is great. And yet people still spend hours standing around in places like Dragon's Aery trying to claim Fafnir, and so on. How do you feel about your original abjuration armor and elite armor pieces being so good that no one wants to stop camping that sort of thing? Obviously you've added possible abjuration drops to things like Einherjar, but people still stick to the classic camps.

KO: Actually, we're not really worried about that now that we have Assault and Salvage and Einherjar. People have choices now, and while it may be hard to believe, there are people out there who like to camp these things for hours on end. Before people would have to camp whether they liked it or not. But now people have a choice; people that want to camp can also camp, but they can also go to Einherjar or such. We give people the choice to let them choose, even if they like to camp for five hours. [Laughs]

1UP: Have you guys gotten any useful feedback about Einherjar? You've always been pretty good about balancing things that need balancing, and from my experience in Einherjar thus far, my alliances often get an unlucky random draw, with our last run being eight dark elementals that didn't really want to sleep whether we cast Sleepga II or Lullaby. Usually the tanks would go down first and fast, and then the sleepers would. And then it went downhill. [Laughs]

KO: Actually, we wanted to make it difficult from the beginning. [Laughs] We wanted to make it difficult for the high-level people. That doesn't mean we're not going to do anything. We just started it a month ago, and so were still trying to find out how well it's going. We are happy that it's difficult, but if any changes need to be made, they will be made. Right now it's just the luck of the draw.

1UP: Now that you guys have experience doing large-scale player-versus-environment type activities, like Besieged, are you planning to implement them in Wings, but on a more manageable scale? Also, do you plan to add them to multiple areas, to possibly help avoid the congestion we see at Besieged? Obviously Besieged has some problems--we've discussed that before--but what's your plan for these types of features in the next expansion?

KO: Yeah, we had a lot of good experience in learning about what things are good for the players and what didn't work. Of course with the next expansion we do want to have a Besieged-like system and expand it, in idea as well as physical space. I can't say much, but we have ideas.

1UP: Back to the topic of the new jobs. The Blue Mage was the one that fans were screaming for, but the Corsair and the Puppetmaster were kind of hybrid jobs that took everyone by surprise. Will the new jobs be more clear-cut job types, like a White Mage or Black Mage, or will they be more like the hybrids? Are you going to come up with something like a Green Mage or a Pink Mage?

KO: [Laughs] I can't really say anything about that now.

KF: I thought you were going to get something out of him.

1UP: Yeah, I gotta get something.

Sage Sundi: [Motioning to Tanaka] He'd like to see a Pink Mage. [Laughs]

HT: What color of mage would you like to see?

Sage Sundi (Global Online producer), Hiromichi Tanaka.

1UP: Haha, that's a tough one. I'll have to think about that. In regards to TOAU activities, let's talk about chocobo racing. When you first announced personal chocobos, you got a standing ovation at Fan Fest. But now that the novelty is over, the chocobo racing portals in the original nations (Windurst, Bastok, San d'Oria) are fairly vacant. Have you considered making it so people can see races happening, or possibly making it more interactive?

KO: First of all, we'll hopefully get in the next version update the ability for players to go into the racetrack and actually see the races.

1UP: How do you mean?

KO: It'll be where you go through the gates in one of the home nations, and it will warp you to where the people are watching the races. And in the update you'll be able to go in that area and talk to the other people participating, up until when the race starts.

1UP: Right now chocobo racing is fairly uninvolved on the player's part. You can give your chocobo items, but not on command, just at the beginning of the race. They use the items randomly. Will you allow players to use items at will, kind of like a "jockey" feature, so that races are more strategic and players have more control over the results beyond pure breeding?

KO: As for the jockey feature, that's probably not anything that's going to happen soon. It's a good idea, but it probably won't happen. But there's going to be a new type of race in the next version update that will be different from the races we have now. And that system will be a little bit different.

1UP: One thing that might be holding back the popularity of chocobo racing is the lack of anything visible to show off your excellence in the event. Guild crafters get aprons and other items, but there currently isn't any armor, like a feathered coat or helmet, that shows off your prowess as either a breeder or a racer. Any chances of adding something like that in the future?

KO: As you know you can win trophies, and in the future more trophy types will be released. But also there will be some type of armor type to achieve. It's in the future, but we are thinking of it.

One of Wings' "Young Griffins."

1UP: How long will you continue to update and tweak the Aht Urhgan content even after Wings of the Goddess is released?

KO: For the first few months we'll be concentrating on Wings of the Goddess, but there are still some things that we haven't finished with Aht Urhgan. But once the first batch of Wings content is finished, we'll want to go back and tie up some of those things in Aht Urhgan as well, so there will be some tweaking going on.

1UP: Who is Wings of the Goddess aimed at? Chains was originally criticized as being too difficult, and Treasures was considered fairly easy by FFXI standards. Will Wings aim at the hardcore endgame player, or is it designed for more casual play like TOAU?

KO: Actually, when we first started planning Treasures of Aht Urhgan it was supposed to be for really high-level players, and [was supposed to be] really difficult. But it ended up being a little bit easier than most people were expecting. But for the new expansion we want to make it for the high-level players, and that's what we're aiming at, but we'll see.

1UP: I want to ask about the POL community stuff for a second. It's nice to see improvements constantly being made to the Linkshell Beta, but to be honest, the user functionality is still a pain in the ass, in terms of logging in and out or searching for linkshells and players. Most linkshells that already have their own independent message boards have little reason to convert to Square Enix's offering. So are you looking to streamline the functionality so that PlayOnline becomes the place of choice for the community to gather?

SS: Yeah, we realize that the linkshell community came a little bit too late, and that it should have been integrated earlier. Because it is beta, there's still a lot of things tht we're working on and getting feedback for. But since it's being made in Japan, there are two different styles for these bulletin boards and message boards. There's the Japanese style and the American style. So maybe right now a lot of American users are having trouble because the style is the Japanese format that people are really used to. The perfect realization would be to have both styles and let the users choose, where the Japanese users could pick the Japanese style and American users could use the message-board type that they use on their own sites. We're still working on it, it's still beta, so hopefully we can fix that. Probably the best thing would be to break it up into parts and let the users choose which parts they want and use those parts to build their own original site.

1UP: Are you using the beta community to gather feedback about what people feel about the game?

SS: Yes, it's easier to get feedback this way.

1UP: Really? So if people have a gripe, they should post it on their linkshell community message board?

SS: [Laughs] It's probably difficult to see all of the feedback like that. But every month we get stuff from GMs and reports from linkshell communities. So [about] things that are hot topics that month, it's a good place to leave your feedback.

Yasu Kurosawa: We also look at bulletin boards, and on the official site there's a place where you can leave comments, so we look at all of those.

1UP: Is there any Wings of the Goddess-specific information that I haven't asked that you want to convey?

KO: As for new areas in Wings, there's about 30 areas.

1UP: How does that compare to a previously existing Vana'diel chapter?

KO: It's the same amount of areas that were in the original Final Fantasy XI without Rise of the Zilart.

1UP: I guess it's good that you're going to the past since you don't actually have to add to the map now.

KO: Yeah.

1UP: Hey! You're cheating! You guys are cheating! [Laughs]

SS: [Laughs] It's a little bit different than just going back into the past and using the exact same maps. It'll be a little bit different from that. But approximately the same amount of geography.

1UP: Lastly, when Wings ships, do you guys plan to offer a PS3 version, since the PS3 has its own built-in hard drive? I mean beyond supporting the older PS2 version.

HT: You mean like a packaged release? No, with the version update now you can play the PS2 version at PS2 resolutions, but there aren't any plans to do a PS3 version in the works.
I hope and pray the new jobs are Tanks and Healers. The last thing this game needs is more damage dealers.
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Post by Okuza »

Actually, the last thing we need are more tanks. Our shell has waaaay too many already. We don't need any more melee, too. We do need more:

Ranged DD -- any kind, just as long as it can do good damage under all circumstances Ranged DD with high-damage 2H's and burst-DD JA's are even better. Better still if they bring additional utility as well, like sleepga and stun.

More healers. Can't have too many healers.
More stunners.
More dispellers.
More refreshers.
More sleepers.

I really really don't want to see one single new job that melees or tanks. The server is just crawling with NIN and PLD. TONS of random melee DD, most of which can't do much of anything at all to contribute to end-game fights.
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Post by Sugami »

Yup I saw that too, looks quite exciting.

A Time Mage would fit into the theme of the expansion but don't see how it'd work in the standard party setup. I'd expect some hybrid jobs like last time too.

What'd be the abbreviate of a Time Mage? TIM? :lol: Some know me as... Tim. :lol:

Guess a TIM/WHM could kinda work like SMN/WHM for healing.
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Post by Keavy »

Sugami wrote:Yup I saw that too, looks quite exciting.

A Time Mage would fit into the theme of the expansion but don't see how it'd work in the standard party setup. I'd expect some hybrid jobs like last time too.

What'd be the abbreviate of a Time Mage? TIM? :lol: Some know me as... Tim. :lol:

Guess a TIM/WHM could kinda work like SMN/WHM for healing.
Monty Python FTW!

I'd love to see something like Holy Knight or Squire or Chemist come out of this. Dredge up some oldies but goodies, SE.

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Post by ScarlettPheonix »

:lol: TIM- I personally like TMM myself...

Least its confirmed that its the past we're going to and not some sort of alt-dimension as well as the time period (Crystal War era)- although that's a bit of a surprise to me.

<<Possible Spoiler for anyone not that far in CoP>>


The brief glimpses of Saruta in the past are clearly of when the towers were complete- just like they are some in some of the CoP cutscenes that take place considerably earlier...

I suppose its possible that they stayed like that for that long and were only ruined in the Crystal War...but it's a bit hard for me to believe.
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Post by Keavy »

ScarlettPheonix wrote::lol: TIM- I personally like TMM myself...

Least its confirmed that its the past we're going to and not some sort of alt-dimension as well as the time period (Crystal War era)- although that's a bit of a surprise to me.

<<Possible Spoiler for anyone not that far in CoP>>


The brief glimpses of Saruta in the past are clearly of when the towers were complete- just like they are some in some of the CoP cutscenes that take place considerably earlier...

I suppose its possible that they stayed like that for that long and were only ruined in the Crystal War...but it's a bit hard for me to believe.
According to the Windurst national storyline the towers were some sort of weapon (I'm rank 8 and that's what I remember of it) so it is possible they were destroyed either after being used or as part of the war.
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Post by Eviticus »

KO: For the first few months we'll be concentrating on Wings of the Goddess, but there are still some things that we haven't finished with Aht Urhgan. But once the first batch of Wings content is finished, we'll want to go back and tie up some of those things in Aht Urhgan as well, so there will be some tweaking going on.
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KO: Wings of the Goddess will take most of our resources, so we're just gonna brush Pup under the carpet. We apologize if someone actually liked the job and picked it up. We are however quietly snickering that you can't sell back those expensive attachments like you can with normal gear. More Pup additions will be announced about 5 weeks before FFXI servers shut down. Have a nice day.
In the end, I'm just talking out of my ass. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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Post by Kintrra »

I'm gonna have to argue on the point about the new jobs. We need just about everything but Damage dealers. Your END-GAME shells have too many tanks, because everyone and their mother's brother leveled NIN. Anywhere below 75, there's a tank shortage for the most part.
OMFG! 8 75+!!!! :shock: Who knew slackers could work so hard? D:
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Post by Keavy »

Kintrra wrote:I'm gonna have to argue on the point about the new jobs. We need just about everything but Damage dealers. Your END-GAME shells have too many tanks, because everyone and their mother's brother leveled NIN. Anywhere below 75, there's a tank shortage for the most part.
We're running out of support, healers, and tanks at the lower levels because they level too damn fast which makes for a glut of them in end-game.
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Post by Sugami »

Keavy wrote:Monty Python FTW!
Indeed :lol: I want to be a TIM! :lol:

I'd love to see Tavnazia(sp?) in it's former glory, it looks really cool in the intro sequence :D

:lol: Evi :lol: :rofl:
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Post by Eviticus »

#1 thing I complain the most about in this game is not gilsellers or stupid players, or even the occasional hilarious stupid gilseller. But rather how SE has used and abused Pup with seemingly little goal or direction in mind for such a unique job full of spark and potential.

The potential has been ignored, comments and suggestions from the players have fallen on deaf ears, and it seems the Dev's have taken a piss on the spark this job has. I love it regardless of how mistreated it is by both the creators and some of the players, I'd even chose it over Drg(my first love). I just hope they eventually carry through on their promises to properly finish this job, and not let the fervor of a new expansion blind them to the gaping holes they left in ToAU.
In the end, I'm just talking out of my ass. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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Post by Keavy »

Eviticus wrote:#1 thing I complain the most about in this game is not gilsellers or stupid players, or even the occasional hilarious stupid gilseller. But rather how SE has used and abused Pup with seemingly little goal or direction in mind for such a unique job full of spark and potential.

The potential has been ignored, comments and suggestions from the players have fallen on deaf ears, and it seems the Dev's have taken a piss on the spark this job has. I love it regardless of how mistreated it is by both the creators and some of the players, I'd even chose it over Drg(my first love). I just hope they eventually carry through on their promises to properly finish this job, and not let the fervor of a new expansion blind them to the gaping holes they left in ToAU.
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Post by Sugami »

Eviticus wrote:#1 thing I complain the most about in this game is not gilsellers or stupid players, or even the occasional hilarious stupid gilseller. But rather how SE has used and abused Pup with seemingly little goal or direction in mind for such a unique job full of spark and potential.

The potential has been ignored, comments and suggestions from the players have fallen on deaf ears, and it seems the Dev's have taken a piss on the spark this job has. I love it regardless of how mistreated it is by both the creators and some of the players, I'd even chose it over Drg(my first love). I just hope they eventually carry through on their promises to properly finish this job, and not let the fervor of a new expansion blind them to the gaping holes they left in ToAU.
You know I'd have thought you'd have been used to that after playing DRG for a while, zing! :lol:

... aww I made myself feel sad :(
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Post by Eviticus »

Drg's got alot of lovin'. Spirit Surge, 20 min recast on Wyvern, Angon, very spiffy end game lances, Homam, both Pahluwan and Amir.
In the end, I'm just talking out of my ass. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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Post by ScarlettPheonix »

And it only took SE what? 3 years to give that to DRG?
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

Kintrra wrote:Your END-GAME shells have too many tanks, because everyone and their mother's brother leveled NIN. Anywhere below 75, there's a tank shortage for the most part.
1, NINs and PLDs are not interchangeable in many end game activities.

2, There is no shortage of jobs that can tank at lower levels. There IS a great shortage of players wearing those jobs who will tank, and a greater shortage of players who will accept those jobs as tanks.

WAR/MNK can tank well till 40ish. Then they will start to have hate holding problems.
MNK/WAR can tank well till the early 30s, then their armor starts to be unsuitable.
SAM/WAR could tank well to 50ish BEFORE Seigan. Just try to get them out of the Jujtsu Gi and Sniper's Rings.
BLU/WAR can tank quite well till IDK when.
Edit:Heck, RDM/WAR could ALWAYS tank, but no one would ever let them. Still won't I bet.

Every last one of these holds hate better than any WAR/NIN, or many NIN/WARs.

On other boards the most popular whines are for Necromancer and Time Mage. For unnamed jobs its (no surprise) Tanks and Healers.

The Classic Necromancer cannot be done without persistent corpses. I can see a Necro based on the Pirate's Skelly Summoners. Perhaps with a Drain that can refill someone else, they could be a back up healer.

With the theme of WotG, the Time Mage would fit right in. But if it is a copy of earlier FF's TIMs, it would be redundant. If the name comes in, it will be as close to the classic FF TIM as COR is to Pirate.

The way jobs are used often shifts in ways that surprise Squenix. Remember that SAM was originally intended to be a tank, and NIN a ranged DD. Given that, I hereby challenge my fellow kitties to design a new tank and a new healer.

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Post by Okuza »

Tsybil wrote:1, NINs and PLDs are not interchangeable in many end game activities.
They're more interchangeable than not. We've found that mostly PLD is more useful than NIN in almost every situation, but that a really good NIN can still do pretty much everything a PLD/nin can do. For instance, I tank Faust on NIN and typically do the kiting for Kirin, but we usually use PLD/nin for most everything else.

About the only real differentiation is that NIN can't do monks in dynamis. PLD+sentinel makes them easy. Mostly we use PLD/nin, but most of the reason we do that is because our good NINs have other jobs and our PLD do not. So, to make everyone useful, we have the PLDs tank and the NINs come on other jobs.

Oh, another difference: NIN is *far* more gear-hungry than PLD. NINs don't become even slightly useful as HNM tanks until they have near-maximum enmity and a decent -physical set -- which is totally useless outside of tanking in an end-shell. Decent HNM-capable NINs are damn rare. So, in that respect, PLD>NIN by far.
Tsybil wrote:2, There is no shortage of jobs that can tank at lower levels. There IS a great shortage of players wearing those jobs who will tank, and a greater shortage of players who will accept those jobs as tanks.
I think this is far more true than anyone knows. My favorite newbie quote (from a WAR): "But if I provoke, it will hit me and I'll die!" Got that one when I was on WHM trying to explain to our WAR how to tank.

Tanking seems to be a player skill much more than a job skill. Hmmm. Tanking is so easy to do, I'd hardly call it a skill. It's just gear choice then mash provoke or your other agro-generators. It's more of a personality issue. Tanks have to be innate team players. They have to trust that the healer will keep them alive. Healers seem to have a far better basic understanding of teamwork than melee players.

I'm leveling DRK and SAM now (to 40 for subs) and I'm doing a lot of the tanking. The gear available for both of those jobs is identical to the gear a WAR or PLD would wear for tanking and this way I can level up my lil' taru mule on whm & blm at the same time.
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

Okuza wrote:I'm leveling DRK and SAM now (to 40 for subs) and I'm doing a lot of the tanking. The gear available for both of those jobs is identical to the gear a WAR or PLD would wear for tanking and this way I can level up my lil' taru mule on whm & blm at the same time.
Not at all. You are forgetting the Esien/Kamph set which is WAR PLD onry, and the best tanking set 29 -40 hands down. The helm and body get replaced at 40 - 43, and the rest can last a PLD to AF.

Dual boxing :shock: I can't do that, don't have two workstations that can be close enough to each other. Good luck and good hunting.
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Post by Sugami »

Eviticus wrote:Drg's got alot of lovin'. Spirit Surge, 20 min recast on Wyvern, Angon, very spiffy end game lances, Homam, both Pahluwan and Amir.
Homam is like next to impossible to get, Pahluwan isn't great and Amir is crap besides the feet.
ScarlettPheonix wrote:And it only took SE what? 3 years to give that to DRG?
Precisely. It's a case of too little too late.
Tysbil wrote:WAR/MNK can tank well till 40ish. Then they will start to have hate holding problems.
MNK/WAR can tank well till the early 30s, then their armor starts to be unsuitable.
SAM/WAR could tank well to 50ish BEFORE Seigan. Just try to get them out of the Jujtsu Gi and Sniper's Rings.
BLU/WAR can tank quite well till IDK when.
Edit:Heck, RDM/WAR could ALWAYS tank, but no one would ever let them. Still won't I bet.
Think the key to WAR tanking is gear, food, backup and race. I was forced to tank on my WAR close to 50 in Garbage Citadel and I even had DEF armour and fish kebobs but I was getting walked over and I couldn't hold hate (because most of my hear was aimed at taking hits as opposed to landing them). I'm possitive a Galka with the same setup would have done a far better job.

Heck I've had a taru MNK rip hate off of me in the jungles and tank for half the fight, she did a good job too :lol:

Enough BLUs can tank anything up to around 40, BLU parties are pretty cool 8) BLUx5 + COR, try that, good fun 8)

I don't really see a RDM/WAR working though, they can't cast if they're taking beats and they wouldn't be able to hold hate for diddly poop :oops:
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Post by Eviticus »

Sugami wrote:
ScarlettPheonix wrote:And it only took SE what? 3 years to give that to DRG?
Precisely. It's a case of too little too late.
The game is still running, better late then never.
In the end, I'm just talking out of my ass. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

Sugami wrote:Think the key to WAR tanking is gear, food, backup and race. I was forced to tank on my WAR close to 50 in Garbage Citadel and I even had DEF armour and fish kebobs but I was getting walked over and I couldn't hold hate (because most of my hear was aimed at taking hits as opposed to landing them). I'm positive a Galka with the same setup would have done a far better job.
As my melee kitty I tanked lower Garliege SAM 49 - 52. Lost 11 Acc in gear alone to do it. Held hate well, but had no RNG or MNK. Yes, before Seigan. I would change that to the key to blood tanking... etc., and leave out the race part.
Sugami wrote:I don't really see a RDM/WAR working though, they can't cast if they're taking beats and they wouldn't be able to hold hate for diddly poop :oops:
Taking beats?
"The <t> hits Tsybil for 0 points of damage'"
"Tsybil's spikes do 14 points of damage to the <t>"
"The <t> is paralyzed"

Just who would be taking these beats?

Stoneskin, Blink, Phalanx, Aquaviel, Obis, High Breath Mantle.

Remember, the way RDMs solo IT+++s is by outlasting them. With 3 - 4 friends also beating on a mob that is only VT++, outlasting them is no trick at all.
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Post by ScarlettPheonix »

RDMs can tank- we're just more high maintenance than the more traditional tanks.

Its not just as /war either. /blu, /pld and /nin all have their uses for tanking.

A non-shadow RDM tanking plays very much like a PLD does although I admit gear, food, party set up and prey choice (and difficulty) are more important considerations for a RDM in that situation. Even with /war it may be better to have a thf or (if high enough) another job sub /thf to help keep hate on the RDM.

I swear, at times trying to decide what sub to use is just like picking out what shoes to wear- and I only have 5 possible subs levelled right now! :lol:
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Post by Kailea »

to me

WAR/MNK
WAR/BLU
PLD/WAR
NIN/WAR
WAR/NIN


are all tanks, people just suck......
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Post by Okuza »

Tsybil wrote:
Okuza wrote:I'm leveling DRK and SAM now (to 40 for subs) and I'm doing a lot of the tanking. The gear available for both of those jobs is identical to the gear a WAR or PLD would wear for tanking and this way I can level up my lil' taru mule on whm & blm at the same time.
Not at all. You are forgetting the Esien/Kamph set which is WAR PLD onry, and the best tanking set 29 -40 hands down. The helm and body get replaced at 40 - 43, and the rest can last a PLD to AF.
Actually, there are alternative parts for every slot that are at least as good in terms of DEF. The Kampf set is nice, but I doubt you could even parse the diference for it versus similar sets. It's the JAs and spells that do that for tanking. Defender is a huge boost and so is wearing a shield if you're DEF tanking. For a war, though, war/nin from 24 to 36 is outstanding as a tank. 2xAxe is your best dps config in that range, too. They make great cotanks with another blinker.
Tsybil wrote:Dual boxing :shock: I can't do that, don't have two workstations that can be close enough to each other. Good luck and good hunting.
It beats solo'ing when there's no one flagged up to group with. It's really good for 1~15 or so. If you can get a group, it's much more fun. Kinda has to be a stationary group for me to dualbox while grouping, though. I've seen people do it well on roaming groups, but I don't have that many hands.

I had a friend back in EQ who used to tripple box and play the characters better than many did single box. I think he typed with his toes.
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Post by Sugami »

Tsybil wrote:Taking beats?
"The <t> hits Tsybil for 0 points of damage'"
"Tsybil's spikes do 14 points of damage to the <t>"
"The <t> is paralyzed"

Just who would be taking these beats?

Stoneskin, Blink, Phalanx, Aquaviel, Obis, High Breath Mantle.
Just how long do you think Stoneskin will last? I give it at most 2 to 3 hits and Blink gives you and extra 2 but can't really rely on it. Paralyze doesn't kick in that much and no way they'll do 14 damage, looking at around 7-8 at lv75 (that's if it doesn't get resisted).
I've tried my hand at "soloing" Steel Shells in the 70s and they were T-VT I think, was bloody impossible and my NPC ended up taking hate and dying :oops:
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Post by ScarlettPheonix »

Ice Spikes paralyzing effect kicks in a hell of a lot more than normal Para I and even Para II- its easy to miss in battle chatter, but it does have an effect. <3 my Ice Spikes for dding stuff. Its fun for the chigger attack too when I'm mage soloing Marids :lol:

You get 14 damage from Ice Spikes, Tysbil? I normally don't see much higher than 7-8- Enblizzard is where I see 14+ damage a hit.

Anyway, fully maxed SS absorbs 350 hp before falling- unless you get a double attack critical hit- it should last somewhere between 3-6 hits against a VT. Other condsiderations like phalanx, Bio I/II/III effect, defense and -phy. damage gear also play a role in how long SS lasts.

I don't bother with Blink either- its too unpredictable for my tastes.

One of my biggest lessons with dding bigger stuff was learning my limits, when to admit that I'd reached them- and that there was nothing in the rule book that says I can't sleep the damned thing to reapply buffs and catch my breathe!
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

ScarlettPheonix wrote:You get 14 damage from Ice Spikes, Tysbil? I normally don't see much higher than 7-8- Enblizzard is where I see 14+ damage a hit.

I don't bother with Blink either- its too unpredictable for my tastes.
I have seen 14, but 8 - 10 is more normal. My enhancing is capped and augmented with gear, but not merited.
Sugami wrote:Just how long do you think Stoneskin will last? I give it at most 2 to 3 hits and Blink gives you and extra 2 but can't really rely on it.
Far more than just 2 - 3 hits.

As for Blink, I mostly use it when Stoneskin is down. I am rarely interrupted casting Blink and it lets me recast Stoneskin without interruptions. Most of the time. On DCs - EMs.
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Post by ScarlettPheonix »

Tsybil wrote:I have seen 14, but 8 - 10 is more normal. My enhancing is capped and augmented with gear, but not merited.
That may be it then- my enhancing skill is capped but except for Warlock tights I don't have any gear specifically for enhancing.
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Post by Sugami »

I think Lv75 Enspells can expect 17-18 if unresisted, Spikes are usually half of that (ish).

You're a lot luckier than I am then, Tysbil. Even on EM crabs (and they don't hit that hard) once Stoneskin is down I'd easily get interrupted even with Aquaveil and Phalanx up but I don't have any spell interruption rate down stuff.

Doesn't take too long for an EM to eat through Stoneskin (with Phalanx up) and a VT-IT only a matter of seconds nevermind an IT+, once that's down you're kinda screwed :oops:
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Post by Alya Mizar (Tsybil) »

Maybe I am lucky, but I get Blink off better than 7/10 of the time against DC - EMs. With that up, Stoneskin gets successfully cast 8/10 or more.

Technique perhaps? I let Ice Spikes handle Paralyze, and keep Slow & Bio II on them, I start casting when they start swinging. After my recent experience soloing as DRK, I think I will be using Blind more often as well.

Enhancing Torques are dirt cheap, and Enhancing is the best thing on the Duelist's Gloves. I forget what other enhancing stuff I have....

/runs off after more coffee

And yes, once they get beyond T its a whole different ball game.
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