GAH! (frustrated kitty time)

[Kintrra]

Okay, so I'm (literally, right now) in an exp/merit pt on my NIN. We're fighting the Mamools at the Nyzul Isle section of Bhaflau. My RDM has stated "I'm not the main healer", because we have a SMN, but the SMN is too busy focusing on DD'ing with Garuda to bother tossing cures apparently. I've died twice already. The RDM doesn't seem to be enfeebling (I'm actually getting time to stick my Ninjutsu enfeebles...) and the SMN...well..like I said, he's too busy DD'ing to help cure.

Anyone else having this problem lately? @.@

[Pheonixhawk]

If there is a SMN in the party, then the RDM shouldn't have to worry about main healing. Backup heal yes. But he should of been focusing on throwing party enhancements, not enfeebling (other than casting maybe Bio III, or Paralyze II) because usually the mob doesnt live long enough for the enfeebles to actually do anything (if your in a good merit party). HOWEVER!!! If the smn is being a lazy S.O.B like the ones I tend to Merit with, then the RDM should Main heal with /whm sub. Granted even if the SMN is DDing he had no reason to not cast cures, seeing as he can only BP every 30 seconds. Meanwhile, the RDM would only have to throw a cure III or 4 occasionally, and cast the helpful stuff like Phalanx II, Haste, Protect, Shell, Refresh and MB whenever possible. I wish I were on your server Kintraa, id show that newb Rdm how it's done.

P.S. And tell that RDM that if he see's the SMN isnt main healing, and he doesn't have whm sub, then it would be best to cast Paralyze, Refresh, Shell and Protect when they wear off, Haste, and nothing else other than cures. You can last a long time without having to rest if you have decent MP gear.

[Keavy]

I love RDM's like that. They're the reason I get party invites

RDM: "F*** that. I don't main heal"

Party member: "WHM LFG. Name's Keavy."

Party leader: "Kicking this ass and sending invite."

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

NINs should not die in merrit parties.

RDMs should be main healer in merrit parties.

SMNs should DD and back up heal. They should also provide Hastega and Earthen Ward.

See that's why parties still need BLMs. To D2 the useless.

[Pheonixhawk]

RDMs should be main healer in merrit parties.

SMNs should DD and back up heal. They should also provide Hastega and Earthen Ward.

At first I wanted to say not true, but then I realized your right. Rdm's are supposed to main heal in merrit parties, if they have /whm sub. I tend to sub /blm, hence why I said the RDM should backup. However if I see the SMN or whm isnt main healing, then I switch to my still gimpy whm sub, and main heal.

See that's why parties still need BLMs. To D2 the useless.

ROFL!!!

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

.... but then I realized your right. Rdm's are supposed to main heal in merrit parties, if they have /whm sub. I tend to sub /blm, hence why I said the RDM should backup. However if I see the SMN or whm isnt main healing, then I switch to my still gimpy whm sub, and main heal.

I have been main healing just fine as /BLM all my life.

You only need someone with /WHM who knows how to use it in the party, and that person does not have to be the RDM.

Somehow I think we may have different definitions of what a Main Healer is. For me its keeping the party alive. I don't even count all those -na spells and erases as back up healing. Its not healing, its that /WHM stuff.

[Keavy]

I was always told that you /WHM from level 40 onward for Divine Seal --> Convert --> Cure III/IV.

[Pheonixhawk]

.... but then I realized your right. Rdm's are supposed to main heal in merrit parties, if they have /whm sub. I tend to sub /blm, hence why I said the RDM should backup. However if I see the SMN or whm isnt main healing, then I switch to my still gimpy whm sub, and main heal.

I have been main healing just fine as /BLM all my life.

You only need someone with /WHM who knows how to use it in the party, and that person does not have to be the RDM.

Somehow I think we may have different definitions of what a Main Healer is. For me its keeping the party alive. I don't even count all those -na spells and erases as back up healing. Its not healing, its that /WHM stuff.

Sadly, on Phoenix Server if you don't have /whm sub. You will NOT get a merit party invite unless they have another mage willing to be a main healer. Sad no? And like you ive NEVER had problems keeping the party alive ever as rdm/blm. But they want me to keep them in tip top shape without status ailments or anything. We call it main healing, I call it being whiny melee B***hes. Either way, without "Main healing them" in that way, I don't get merit party invites, or get kicked out quite shortly.


And also, I don't know about subbing whm at lvl 40, but ive always gone with blm because it's my favorite and I have warp on me. Always good to have all subs lvled, despite the fact that it will be forever and a day for me to do so.

[Okuza]

and the SMN...well..like I said, he's too busy DD'ing to help cure. [...] Anyone else having this problem lately? @.@

You mean this is a NEW problem?

Here's my favorite sucky SMN tale: Dynamis-Xarcabard. Someone trains all the demons on us from the 2nd extension (9 demons, 3 eyes). Eventually things go bad, but we could still pull it out. I'm on NIN and last tank up. SMN has FULL MP and is only healer. I'm pretty low on HP at this point. I keep asking for heals in group. Begging for heals.

SMN stands up, whips out Leviathan, does a DD BP, sits back down. So, I die, then the critter owns the rest of the alliance including the SMN.

After this I ask the SMN why he didn't heal me. His reply? "Oh, sorry, SMN is just a DD job." That must be why he was smn/WHM. Grrr.

--

Anyway, I've found the only way to avoid the dreaded "DD SMN" is to tell the SMN before you start fighting that he's expected to be the main healer. You never tell a smn he's a secondary healer. Say that and you get "DD ONLY". There are good SMN I know that really will do a great job at both heal and DD and really can do just backup heals, but there's quite a sizeable minority of true idiot-SMN out there. ; ;

[Sugami]

NINs should not die in merrit parties.

RDMs should be main healer in merrit parties.

SMNs should DD and back up heal. They should also provide Hastega and Earthen Ward.

See that's why parties still need BLMs. To D2 the useless.

And "merrit" should be spelt like "merit"

RDM don't have to main heal but they should really put it in their comment and reinforce it when they're offered an invite to stop time wasting.

/WHM for the endless Silenas they want in the Mire and Elemental Seal + Drain after Convert is much better, it does damage too

[ScarlettPheonix]

My take on the /whm vs /blm main healing (I've done both) is the situation/location. In my experience its easier and better for the party overall to not go /blm in the Mire-everywhere else it really depends on the mobs and the party set-up.

Personally, I've always disliked the idea of using DS+Cure IV. Sure it saves 88mp, but that also means that DS isn't up for the next 10 minutes-and chances are a nice DS+Curaga or Curaga II could really be helpful in that time period. It also has the added benefit of saving me more MP in the long run then just using it to heal myself after Convert.

[Shirai]

Both the smn and rdm would be at fault here imho.

A pure DDing smn has no place in a merit party unless specificly asked to, weŕe just too slow for today's merit parties.
This doesn mean that the smn should not be DDing but we have better things to do to help the party.
(Personal experience.)

Usually when I merit on summoner I share the healing duties with the Red I party with.
I take care of the regens and small cures and partybuffs, while the red does the bigger cures, enfeebling and whatever the red does normally.

Buffs depend on what the Red does, I usually take the job of hasting with Hastega as I have capped the duration anyway unless the red has haste burned this so much in his/her routine that he will haste melee no matter what.
No matter, that makes room for another partybuff.
(I have enough of those anyway :3)
Next to that I earthen ward the party to make my and the red's job a lot easier, next to that I toss in doggy buffs.
(Especially nice on Colibri.)
And occasionally when I have excess MP I do toss out a Predator claws for damage which puts mediocre DDs to shame.
But as you see that is not my main focus, hehe.
(This is my personal favorite playstyle in exp/merit, not to be seen as the way to play)

What the Red does on HNM and stuff is his worry but for exp/merit they should be ready to also act as healer no matter the role is they got invited for.
It looks to me your Red was a lazy bumm trying to leech exp, and your summoner just seems like he/she was selfish.
Neither of them as you tell this gives me the impression that they know about team effort, which even exp/merit is.

Just blist them and never invite them again.
Getting those players happens sometimes, don't worry too much about it.

[Alya Mizar (Tsybil)]

I was always told that you /WHM from level 40 onward for Divine Seal --> Convert --> Cure III/IV.

I like to save that Divine Seal for more important things. Like Divine Seal Curaga II.

I have known several RDMs who have had the Convert --> Divine Seal --> die like a dog trying to cast experience.

So I use the same Convert macro when /WHM as when /BLM.

[Keavy]

I'm kinda leaning towards the Elemental Seal --> Drain after Convert thing Sugami brought up.

Healing myself and dealing damage? That's what I like.

I was just asking because I am seriously returning to RDM here soon. Then, I dunno. I mean, most likely BLM because I don't wanna level SMN much further until I have Fenrir and Diabolos and I sold all my Bard instruments to pay for WHM gear and I really want a Siren's Flute and Mary's Horn (Dropped, not bought) before I level Bard again and I should also level NIN if I'm gonna level Bard.

Then again I may just say screw leveling PLD on my second character and level it on Keavy.

[ScarlettPheonix]

ES+Drain is great lol- I use it all the time if I'm subbing /blm. Its really nice if you have some Dark skill gear too.

200+ damage for 21 mp? {Yes, please}

[Pheonixhawk]

I got so hooked on Drain, that It kinda helped motivate me to lvl Up Drk for Drain II. Sooo nice. 256 dmg for a drain II and max HP boost and then 150+ dmg on a regular drain? Sexuh. Still gotta get those Dred Spikes tho.

[Keavy]

DRK?

Never thought of leveling that. Sounds like fun. Beating stuff with sickles and big swords, and axes...

[ScarlettPheonix]

I just recently finished levelling drk as a sub and it was fun at times, but the whole slow moving weapon thing just isn't for me.

Waiting two weeks to miss- not my play style.

[Sugami]

I have known several RDMs who have had the Convert --> Divine Seal --> die like a dog trying to cast experience.

That's always fun

My only death experience with Convert has been from an unlucky AoE or me getting cocky whilst Chainspell nuking

ES+Drain is sexy, only problem is if they kill it before you get a chance to Drain I usually do; Elemental Seal -> Convert -> Drain and Bob's your dad's brother you've got about half your HP back and did a nice bit of damage ontop of it. Then can slap on Regen and let that do the rest of the work

[Keavy]

Quick question: If I merit Regen as WHM will those merits carry over to RDM or are they WHM only?

[ScarlettPheonix]

I know I'm setting myself up for a debate on this.

All job specific merits are job specific: Ie, Regen potency and Cure casting time merits only work on WHM at 75.

They don't work in level capped areas or on other jobs.

More general merits, ie: HP/MP/Weapon SKill/Stats/Magic Skill/etc, do work on other jobs and in level capped areas.


From SE's Update Notes from way back when Job Specific Merits were introduced in 2005:

The limit for adjusting existing abilities using Merit Points has been raised.

The abilities available for Merit Point usage have been expanded.

These abilities have been divided by job type, as listed below.

There are two conditions for using Merit Points on these abilities: the job to which the ability pertains must be set as the main job, and the main job level must be 75.

and from FFXIclopedia (they have a really great section on merits, btw):

Job-Specific Merit Point Categories

Upgrades in the following merit point categories are in effect only when the specified job is the player's main job and when it is level 75. They become inactive if the player delevels to 74.

Within each category there are two groups, each with separate "max combo" and "max per item" values. Upgrades in Group 1 enhance abilities, traits, and spells that the player already has, while upgrades in Group 2 (added in the July 24, 2006 Version Update) grant and enhance new abilities, traits, and spells.

[Keavy]

I was just curious because I do plan on putting some merits into Regen to make Regen III worth using.

[Sugami]

Yeah I'd have to agree otherwise it'd be unbalancing a few other stuff no doubt

[ScarlettPheonix]

Oh its no problem, Keavy.

Its just the last time the subject came up- I said the same thing I just did and several people argued the opposite, even after I pointed out SE's Update Notes on the subject.

[Kintrra]

I was just curious because I do plan on putting some merits into Regen to make Regen III worth using.

wait wait wait...you mean you're NOT using the crap out of your regens already? o.O;;; How the blazes do you keep your MP!

[Keavy]

I was just curious because I do plan on putting some merits into Regen to make Regen III worth using.

wait wait wait...you mean you're NOT using the crap out of your regens already? o.O;;; How the blazes do you keep your MP!

I use Regen II. Regen III doesn't give enough HP back for the MP cost to make it worth using. After I merit Regen's HP recovery I can get enough HP back from Regen III to make it worth using.

Right now I use Regen II along with Cure III if needed and yell at my backup cure to read the log when they drop a Cure IV on the puller who was at 80% that I just used Regen II on.

[xaresity]

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[xaresity]

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